Nightmare Tenant + Covid19 = No rent, no evictions, harassment

Nightmare Tenant + Covid19 = No rent, no evictions, harassment

MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes

HELP!  **I know its long, but please read**

My step brother and I bought a 2 family home in MA, in a great location.  We both work from home, and live in the top unit.  Our tenant is a 61 year old woman, and lives in the bottom unit.  This is our first time as landlords, so we did not do a thorough background check on this tenant.  She had an agent representing her, was 61 years old, willing to pay us $2200 a month, drove a beamer, and seemed like an awkward but nice old lady. Her credit score was also almost 800... so we went with our intuition and let her move in (BIG MISTAKE). 

From October until February, she paid her $2200 on time every single month. She harassed us CONSTANTLY with strange requests during this time period.  She would break things on purpose, tamper with things, and then yell at us via text / email that they needed to be addressed.  I could go ON AND ON with crazy stories, but I don't want people to stop reading before I get to my question... 

Starting in March, she stopped paying her rent.  She purposely created a bunch of issues in her unit, then called the Board of Health and told them we hadn't addressed them.  The main thing being that her toilet was clogged (which she 100% clogged on purpose).   After showing the BOH the crazy emails, texts, and photos that our tenant sent us - they agreed that she might be mentally unstable.  The inspector told us to just quickly fix the issues and then either ask for the rent and/or try to evict.  

After getting marked off by the BOH, she still did not pay rent.  We then had a constable serve her with a 7 Day Notice to Quit (which she completely disregarded, and has not mentioned).  We were about to serve her with the Summary Process Complaint and get her in court, but due to coronavirus this entire process just got put on a permanent hold.  We were trying to evict her based on 

  • Harassment (we have various police reports of nonstop harassment, and she has recently threatened our lives) 
  • Cleanliness (she has overflowed the toilet purposefully and left feces and waste on the floor.  She even has picked it up and put it in the tub, then pretended like it was coming up through the tub.  The DPW proved that wasn't possible and then she admitted to putting it in the tub because it was all over the floor... HUH?!?)
  • Nonpayment of Rent (since she has recently stopped paying all together as well. 

Although she is older and MA tenants have a lot of rights, we were pretty sure we would have gotten her evicted based on the insane amount of evidence we have.

Now - We cannot continue the eviction process because of the Coronavirus.  She has been threatening our lives on the security camera, and we no longer feel comfortable in our own home.  We have three separate police reports, but all the cops can do is call her or swing by and tell her to stop.  They don't have enough to send her to a mental institution or arrest her on criminal charges.  (Even if they did arrest her on criminal charges - those are criminal charges, and not civil charges that will get her evicted).  Our lawyer suggested to try to get a Harassment Protection Order against her to try and expedite getting her out... but the courthouse is shut down and it's impossible to see a judge.  We tried to do it at the Police Station, but most of our evidence is video evidence - and the cops didn't think what we had in writing would be enough to evict her, especially at her age and given the current circumstances with Covid19. 

So basically - we are screwed.  We will not be able to traditionally evict her ANY time soon, cannot get an HPO that will force an eviction, and her lease is not up until the end of August.  We are guessing that we will now have to just eat the $2200 a month for 5 months (she paid first and last, but no security deposit)... and try to sue her after she moves out for all the losses.  We are also scared of her squatting when the lease is up at this point... because I feel like she thinks she can just get away with whatever she wants.  We also feel SOOOO uncomfortable trying to talk to her.  She is clearly unstable and we are insanely uncomfortable in our own house... especially getting nonstop camera alerts of her tampering with things in the basement, cursing us out on camera, etc... 

Does anyone have any ideas?? What would you do in this situation?  I'm officially at a loss of what to do. As of right now, I'm planning to just get no rent for 5 months, get her out of my house, and then sue her retroactively for absolutely everything.  Thoughts?

TLDR

-Tenant (in MA) is crazy, cannot evict her due to covid19, now she is squatting / not paying rent... what do I do?

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San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

First of all, come on.  You're two grown men and this is an old lady.  

This is March 18th.  So, you have only missed one month's rent so far.

You can evict her for non-payment of rent.  Don't need the other issues and you might look crazier than her in court.  So, for now, I'd just stick to non-payment of rent.  Then, if necessary, you can use the other stuff.  But, you want to look sane and calm.  You can keep her security deposit for any damage.

I'd start out by asking her if she'd like to be released from her lease and see what she says.  Sometimes tenants do crazy stuff to get out of their lease, and it never occurs to them to just ask to be released.

If a conversation doesn't go well, then I'd just ignore her until you can just file an eviction based on non-payment of rent.  Turn off the cameras.  Just ignore her.  Go to court when you can.  Keep her deposit for damage.

And do better screening next time.  The Nolo books are great.  They have one on tenant screening, too.

https://store.nolo.com/products/landlord-tenant/landlord-books

And of course, you can get lots of free advice here on BP about screening tenants.

None of us were born knowing how to screen tenants, so don't beat yourself up.  Live and learn.  You'll do better next time.

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  • Specialist · Plano, TX · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 861 votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson What a terrible situation to be in during this time. Evicting someone can already be a slow process and the issues your tenant has plus social distancing is only making it slower. I can't provide any advice as I have never been in your shoes, but it sounds like you and your brother should be able to evict her with enough proof of what is happening. It's a matter of when, not how. Best of luck and keep us posted. 

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Marlen Weber thanks for the response! I agree, I think we will eventually be able to evict her, but who knows when... and how difficult it will be to get all the rent she stiffed us on (+ legal fees, etc). It is also very uncomfortable and nerve-racking having her in the home, which is why we are desperate to find a way to expedite this!

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    First of all, come on.  You're two grown men and this is an old lady.  

    This is March 18th.  So, you have only missed one month's rent so far.

    You can evict her for non-payment of rent.  Don't need the other issues and you might look crazier than her in court.  So, for now, I'd just stick to non-payment of rent.  Then, if necessary, you can use the other stuff.  But, you want to look sane and calm.  You can keep her security deposit for any damage.

    I'd start out by asking her if she'd like to be released from her lease and see what she says.  Sometimes tenants do crazy stuff to get out of their lease, and it never occurs to them to just ask to be released.

    If a conversation doesn't go well, then I'd just ignore her until you can just file an eviction based on non-payment of rent.  Turn off the cameras.  Just ignore her.  Go to court when you can.  Keep her deposit for damage.

    And do better screening next time.  The Nolo books are great.  They have one on tenant screening, too.

    https://store.nolo.com/products/landlord-tenant/landlord-books

    And of course, you can get lots of free advice here on BP about screening tenants.

    None of us were born knowing how to screen tenants, so don't beat yourself up.  Live and learn.  You'll do better next time.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I am curious how you know she is purposely doing things? Toilets get clogged, things dont work..... 

    Perhaps from her pov you are ignoring her requests for basic items that a rental should have....


    So, i would perhaps read your states landlord laws, and then maybe take a couple deep breaths....

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson  If she is threatening your lives and you have it on video, call the cops and have her arrested.  Then serve her with a restraining order.

  • Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Did you get an application with an emergency contact? Maybe you can get some insight from the contact. Try the happy clause. Lock her out of the basement. In most places you get a lot more leeway when you also occupy the home. Make sure you know the rules in your state for OWNER-OCCUPIED multi-family. Sign up for a rent payment system that allows you report tenant credit each month. If she has an 800 credit score, she may move to protect her credit score: make sure she knows that her score WILL BE TRASHED if she has an eviction and a judgement and that you are moving to a payment system where you can start IMMEDIATELY reporting late pays.  See if you can figure out which (likely) "class B personality disorder she has, this can help you determine how to motivate her to GTFO. Do not interact with her except in writing and don't write anything you wouldn't want read out loud in court. This sucks. I hope you can 'motivate' her to move.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I guess what i would do if she is mentally disturbed is call an attorney and also perhaps her emergency contact person 

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Sue K.

    I knew a few of these types of responses would come in, but I didn’t want to write a novel explaining every single thing that she has done. We have video footage of death threats, proof from department of public works, plumbers, board of health, and other contractors backing every single thing up I have stated.

    We of course will screen better next time, but first we need to get her out, which seems impossible right now. Just wondering if anyone has any insight on what they would do in our exact position, assuming everything we are stating is true (rather than assuming it is not true).

    Regardless, I will check out that book, thanks for the response.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson you can not evict her now.... i would contact her emergency contact person asap... Maybe she is supposed to be on meds and is not taking them? Who knows..... 

    you might also reach out to your local mental health hot line and ask for resources 


  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Mary Mitchell

    Thanks Mary - Yeah contacting an emergency contact is a great idea. We used agents, so they probably have the original application with that information. We will definitely do that if we can get the info.

    We also already talked to the mental health professional at the police station (who is very familiar with her apparently...). There is nothing they can do really unless she threatens us and we get the police there immediately... but that will not actually cause an eviction. It just seems like there is no quick way to get her out, especially with the coronavirus situation. We basically just need to try our best to walk on eggshells while we go through a very long, delayed eviction process.

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Jill F.

    These are all excellent points and ideas! We will definitely utilize these. Her credit score isn’t a full 800, but was in the mid / high 700s. Either way, still good, and I can imagine she would’t want it trashed. She has always been strange and harasses us, but over the past month she has been spiraling, and things like credit scores don’t really seem to matter to her right now... it is a very strange situation. Thank you for the insight!

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Julia Jabronski

    Julia - I know what you are saying, but I dont even think her age or gender matters at the moment. I think she is protected in MA regardless, and with the coronavirus it makes the eviction process EXTREMELY drawn out and delayed. Normally we would go through this process and she would likely be out... but right now we are in limbo and stuck between a rock and a hard place. We also both work out of home offices that we need to access to work. We cannot afford to relocate and risk not being able to work... then not being able to pay our mortgage (which is already more difficult to pay due to no rent for an extended period of time).

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Theresa Harris

    Theresa - we tried this. The cops filed a police report, but they cannot arrest her unless we physically get threatened. If its just blank threats on a camera, all they will do is talk to her and tell her to stop. Or if its bad enough, maybe take her away for a day or so (which has not happened yet). We cannot get a restraining order, only a harassment protection order since she is our tenant. Most of the time in MA these do not get the tenant out, just basically forces them to stop harassing us.... but the courts are closed, and without being able to physically show a judge these videos - its going to be hard to get approval on that. I also am nervous to “poke the bear” if I cannot physically get her out... since it seems like we are stuck with her for 5 more months in the same house.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alex Johnson:

    @Theresa Harris

    Theresa - we tried this. The cops filed a police report, but they cannot arrest her unless we physically get threatened. If its just blank threats on a camera, all they will do is talk to her and tell her to stop. Or if its bad enough, maybe take her away for a day or so (which has not happened yet). We cannot get a restraining order, only a harassment protection order since she is our tenant. Most of the time in MA these do not get the tenant out, just basically forces them to stop harassing us.... but the courts are closed, and without being able to physically show a judge these videos - its going to be hard to get approval on that. I also am nervous to “poke the bear” if I cannot physically get her out... since it seems like we are stuck with her for 5 more months in the same house.

     Well that sucks.  Good luck ignoring her.  At least you have a record from the police of her behaviour.  I'd keep the cameras on, but not necessarily watch them-just record in case you need proof.

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Theresa Harris

    Yeah good point. The cameras are only in common areas, not anywhere intrusive. But we do check the basement one often because we are terrified of her doing something to the hot water heater, furnace, etc. Her laundry machines are in the basement, but we are very close to just locking her out of there regardless since she hasnt paid rent anyways. Not sure if we can get in trouble for that... but we are very nervous about her damaging our utilities. She has already tampered with them on several occasions.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Have you offered her money to move?

  • Attorney · Mobile Alabama · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson I have clients who have reached an agreement with the tenant to pay for a month or two at a Residence Inn or one of those semi condo like long term stay hotels ( with a kitchen, living area and 2 bedrooms), and storage unit for the same time period. Yes, it can cost 1500-2,000, but what’s the cost of being stuck with a mentally ill buffoon who won’t pay, and who will countersue?

    Once the tenant voluntarily leaves, you do not have to evict. Have your lawyer draft a release agreement and keep the deposit. Anything to avoid court and a conflict decided by a third party. Just lure her out of the unit with some kind of incentive and get a signed and notarized Release. Nobody wins in Court except lawyers.

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed

    You must be a young whippersnapper if you think a 61 year old woman is an OLD WOMAN. If so I must be ancient.

    She is vintage.

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Kevin Ryan

    Kevin - Yeah we have been told it might make sense to do “cash for keys” or work out some sort of an agreement like this. At this point, we would do anything to just have her out of our lives. I think we are going to write a letter asking her for the rent, and if not... coming up with some sort of an agreement like this. For some reason though, my gut feeling says it would take a LOT to get her out... especially since she knows she can just squat right now as long as she wants since there is not much we can currently do about it. We will definitely try this, but if she declines the offer, I’m hoping it doesnt blow up later in our face when we try to continue the eviction process.

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Julia Jabronski

    Wow , thank you for scaring the hell out of me with that story from Hawaii as I am 10 feet above her trying to get ready to sleep.... lol. I don’t think its quite THAT bad, but I do sleep away from home a lot more often on the weekends since this has taken place. This is every landlords worst nightmare. I was warned about things like this, but never in my wildest dreams thought a situation this crazy would happen in the area I am in... by someone like this..

  • Cliff H.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Nashua, NH · Member since 2014 · 587 posts · 477 votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson the facts are simple: you cannot evict if the courts are on skeleton crews and not processing evictions. Many of us are dealing similar, often far worse situations than 1-2 months of lost rent and crazy tenants, which is near run of the mill in some C class investments. How about fraud? Felony? Drug dealers with angry dogs?

    It’s a lie that you can screen out 100% of your risk in this business. You’re dealing with people: all kinds, from all walks, with all forms of common sense (or lack thereof). In fact, I just found out today that all those lovely “have you ever been evicted?” Questions in online rental applications like Cozy/Zillow: completely useless in court. How about that? 

    Absent the official court route you’re looking at making your tenant an offer with cash for keys (careful), walking the fine line of educating your tenant about the impact to her credit, or building enough evidence to move past civil to a criminal case (which would likely still end up in a long backlog of court cases that will be months to get heard). 

    Feel free to drop me a direct message. Happy to chat more directly. This is all just getting started. Things are about to get a lot worse in the months to come. 

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Cliff H.

    Cliff - Appreciate the response man. I will probably message you tomorrow as well to get some more insight. I’m not saying this situation is worse than others - I’m saying its EXTREMELY uncomfortable since we also LIVE here, directly above her, sharing all common areas and entryways. Its impossible to avoid her, and she is threatening us and having constant episodes late at night when we are trying to sleep. The financial loss sucks, but what really sucks is buying an 800K house for the first time, moving in all excited, an then one month later having someone like this move in and completely ruin everything. Its at the point where legit none of my family or friends even want to come here, the whole energy of the house is tense and awful. Its an old house with thin walls. If I was just a landlord and did not also live here, it would not be half as bad. I was wondering if anyone has any tips for an owner-occupied situation like mine, I would like to think I have more rights than someone who does not also live in the home. I’m just still new to this and drinking out of a firehouse trying to learn how to deal with expert manipulator. You are right though... its definitely not about to get easier... and I have a feeling she will be down there for quite some time. I hate the idea of giving her a deal since she has made our lives hell, but at this point we need to do anything we can.

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    This virus is creating more challenges than anyone here has seen in their lifetime. Perhaps you can find some solace with another investors story with hellish occupants. His story is a bit different although it may help in some way. 

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/64944-the-occupants-from-hell-

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

    Is there legally a path for a family member and a fee to occupy? I assume you already checked into that. Either way we know how this ends up already. This always ends with him her gone forever. 

     Good luck!

  • Investor · Malden, MA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed easier said than done here in Boston. Tenants are so protected in MA.

  • Rental Property Investor · Enterprise, AL · Member since 2019 · 137 posts · 85 votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson

    I’m curious what you mean by screen better? It seems like you did a background and credit score check. I want to know what you (or anyone else on this thread) could have done differently to prevent this. Even if you meet with them several times before you sing the lease and hand them the keys, there true nature may still be hidden.

    I recently had an older lady who was a little high-maintenance who ultimately broke her lease after 4 months and move out. Luckily, she was nowhere near the level you are describing and is actually very very sweet. She had a 830 credit score, everything was paid on time, no criminal history, a steady job. After she moved in, I did everything in my power to take care of her and all of her request as soon as possible, but it wasn’t enough to do her.

    Silly things like she thought some potpourri leaves that fell out of her moving boxes from a bag of potpourri that was literally above the leaves was snake poop. She said she was so scared a snake was in the room, that she ran out, shut the door and put a towel under the door, stayed in bedroom, put a towel under that door and googled pictures of snake poop all night because she kept the lights on all night and couldn’t sleep.

    She eventually wanted to move out and so I let her. I was actually a little bit relieved to be honest.

    The question I want to know is how do you screen for crazy?

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