Nightmare Tenant + Covid19 = No rent, no evictions, harassment

Nightmare Tenant + Covid19 = No rent, no evictions, harassment

MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes

HELP!  **I know its long, but please read**

My step brother and I bought a 2 family home in MA, in a great location.  We both work from home, and live in the top unit.  Our tenant is a 61 year old woman, and lives in the bottom unit.  This is our first time as landlords, so we did not do a thorough background check on this tenant.  She had an agent representing her, was 61 years old, willing to pay us $2200 a month, drove a beamer, and seemed like an awkward but nice old lady. Her credit score was also almost 800... so we went with our intuition and let her move in (BIG MISTAKE). 

From October until February, she paid her $2200 on time every single month. She harassed us CONSTANTLY with strange requests during this time period.  She would break things on purpose, tamper with things, and then yell at us via text / email that they needed to be addressed.  I could go ON AND ON with crazy stories, but I don't want people to stop reading before I get to my question... 

Starting in March, she stopped paying her rent.  She purposely created a bunch of issues in her unit, then called the Board of Health and told them we hadn't addressed them.  The main thing being that her toilet was clogged (which she 100% clogged on purpose).   After showing the BOH the crazy emails, texts, and photos that our tenant sent us - they agreed that she might be mentally unstable.  The inspector told us to just quickly fix the issues and then either ask for the rent and/or try to evict.  

After getting marked off by the BOH, she still did not pay rent.  We then had a constable serve her with a 7 Day Notice to Quit (which she completely disregarded, and has not mentioned).  We were about to serve her with the Summary Process Complaint and get her in court, but due to coronavirus this entire process just got put on a permanent hold.  We were trying to evict her based on 

  • Harassment (we have various police reports of nonstop harassment, and she has recently threatened our lives) 
  • Cleanliness (she has overflowed the toilet purposefully and left feces and waste on the floor.  She even has picked it up and put it in the tub, then pretended like it was coming up through the tub.  The DPW proved that wasn't possible and then she admitted to putting it in the tub because it was all over the floor... HUH?!?)
  • Nonpayment of Rent (since she has recently stopped paying all together as well. 

Although she is older and MA tenants have a lot of rights, we were pretty sure we would have gotten her evicted based on the insane amount of evidence we have.

Now - We cannot continue the eviction process because of the Coronavirus.  She has been threatening our lives on the security camera, and we no longer feel comfortable in our own home.  We have three separate police reports, but all the cops can do is call her or swing by and tell her to stop.  They don't have enough to send her to a mental institution or arrest her on criminal charges.  (Even if they did arrest her on criminal charges - those are criminal charges, and not civil charges that will get her evicted).  Our lawyer suggested to try to get a Harassment Protection Order against her to try and expedite getting her out... but the courthouse is shut down and it's impossible to see a judge.  We tried to do it at the Police Station, but most of our evidence is video evidence - and the cops didn't think what we had in writing would be enough to evict her, especially at her age and given the current circumstances with Covid19. 

So basically - we are screwed.  We will not be able to traditionally evict her ANY time soon, cannot get an HPO that will force an eviction, and her lease is not up until the end of August.  We are guessing that we will now have to just eat the $2200 a month for 5 months (she paid first and last, but no security deposit)... and try to sue her after she moves out for all the losses.  We are also scared of her squatting when the lease is up at this point... because I feel like she thinks she can just get away with whatever she wants.  We also feel SOOOO uncomfortable trying to talk to her.  She is clearly unstable and we are insanely uncomfortable in our own house... especially getting nonstop camera alerts of her tampering with things in the basement, cursing us out on camera, etc... 

Does anyone have any ideas?? What would you do in this situation?  I'm officially at a loss of what to do. As of right now, I'm planning to just get no rent for 5 months, get her out of my house, and then sue her retroactively for absolutely everything.  Thoughts?

TLDR

-Tenant (in MA) is crazy, cannot evict her due to covid19, now she is squatting / not paying rent... what do I do?

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Most Popular Reply

San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

First of all, come on.  You're two grown men and this is an old lady.  

This is March 18th.  So, you have only missed one month's rent so far.

You can evict her for non-payment of rent.  Don't need the other issues and you might look crazier than her in court.  So, for now, I'd just stick to non-payment of rent.  Then, if necessary, you can use the other stuff.  But, you want to look sane and calm.  You can keep her security deposit for any damage.

I'd start out by asking her if she'd like to be released from her lease and see what she says.  Sometimes tenants do crazy stuff to get out of their lease, and it never occurs to them to just ask to be released.

If a conversation doesn't go well, then I'd just ignore her until you can just file an eviction based on non-payment of rent.  Turn off the cameras.  Just ignore her.  Go to court when you can.  Keep her deposit for damage.

And do better screening next time.  The Nolo books are great.  They have one on tenant screening, too.

https://store.nolo.com/products/landlord-tenant/landlord-books

And of course, you can get lots of free advice here on BP about screening tenants.

None of us were born knowing how to screen tenants, so don't beat yourself up.  Live and learn.  You'll do better next time.

See this reply in the discussion

87 Replies

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  • Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2015 · 366 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    Welcome to land lording!

    I would talk with her and try to offer her some cash, to pay for her first months rent somewhere else along with offering to pay for a moving company to move her stuff (assuming they are still working). If that doesn’t work, just try and be kind and calm with her. Keep record of everything with dates and all. You may have to wait till this Coronavirus stuff passes. Then you will have a good chance to evict her.

    Also, there will be some sort of Coronavirus relief package passed soon. Hopefully this will include help to tenants paying rent or to mortgage holders for temporary loan forgiveness.

    Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson yikes and a half. This is awful!

    One thought...don’t approach from a landlord point of view right now...

    Can you check in with a social worker/mental health? Maybe she is a danger to herself and others?

    Not suggesting this from a “soft stance” point of view—but these professionals are probably more used to dealing with this kind of dysfunction and might have more tools up to and including the possibility of involuntary commitment

  • Ryan KeeslarPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Mary Esther, FL · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson If I were you, I would call her family members to let them know of the situation. Be calm and professional, politely let them know of her mental state and the living situations. You might even throw in giving her deposit back as a carrot if she leaves without any more problems. Let her know, she isn't happy, you aren't happy, here is your deposit back once she has moved. Pull up in a uhaul and byiiiieeeee. If she refuses to leave, then you might need to have a small house fire (only kidding) if you try my approach let me know!

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Matt R.

    Matt - I just read through some of that... so terrifying that someone could squat there for 5 years without getting kicked out... that is legitimately insane..

    Also - I was thinking of that. I could probably get a family member to move in. It would be more expensive for us because that family member would not be able to pay the same amount this tenant pays... is there a time limit on how long the family member would have to live there for? If it is only a year or so, I could definitely have him move in. If its like 3-5 years though, it would lose us a LOT of money. Great idea!

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Richard Moreno you got that right man... even the cops said if she pulled a gun and threatened us she would he arrested on criminal charges, but not necessarily kicked out of the apartment. I was like WHAT?!

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Heath Jones

    Lol at the snake story, that is so ridiculous! Well, to be fair, I did not do a background check until after the fact. That is what I was saying in the original post. We had an in person meeting, credit check, tour of the unit, etc... and we just kind of decided based on that. If we had done a full background check we would have found out she had a terrible track record and has bounced around a LOT.

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Kyle I will be talking to my original loan officer from the bank today about refinancing options because of the coronavirus (much lower rates) , and going to ask him about the bank’s mortgage relief plan. Definitely a great idea. Yeah - the virus is pushing everything back like crazy.

    If we eventually do get her evicted - will we get all of the rent money retroactively? Or in most instances she just leaves and we get nothing? It has to crushhh her credit if she did that right?

    We are definitely going to offer cash for keys at this point... if that doesnt work we will move forward with this eviction process and maybe see if a family member can move in or something to expedite things

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan R McLaughlin

    For sure - the mental health specialist at the police department is very familiar with her apparently... but sue cannot get her removed unless we catch her in a BAD episode and send the cops there within a certain amount of time. Soooo much red tape around everything.

  • MA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 21 votes
    6y

    @Ryan Yeah that is a great idea. We are trying to ask our agents if there was an emergency contact on her original application. If so - we want to call them and fill them in. The only thing is - she trashes us on the phone every single night to everyone she knows, so her family probably all thinks we are monsters. But if they are normal and understand she has mental health issues, they might side with us and try to help. We will definitely try cash for keys and even help hire people to get her out. Good idea!

  • Michael K GallagherBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson what a horrific situation!  I guess a little silver lining is that you got one of the worst tenants you will ever get on your first attempt....probably nowhere to go but up from here. Don't let it sour your taste for RE, because after this you will probably be one of the more experienced people on BP and be ready for anything!  

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alex Johnson:

    @Matt R.

    Matt - I just read through some of that... so terrifying that someone could squat there for 5 years without getting kicked out... that is legitimately insane..

    Also - I was thinking of that. I could probably get a family member to move in. It would be more expensive for us because that family member would not be able to pay the same amount this tenant pays... is there a time limit on how long the family member would have to live there for? If it is only a year or so, I could definitely have him move in. If its like 3-5 years though, it would lose us a LOT of money. Great idea!

    Yeah, that one kind of went off the rails with Calif recognizing an unrecorded marriage etc.

    I don't know the LL laws. Although since this is your personal residence you may have some options not afforded to the non owner occupied. It may not necessarily have to be a hardship case but idk. I guess a call to an attorney would clarify quickly. Good luck!

  • Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 261 posts · 253 votes
    6y

    I would definitely find a local attorney that is familiar with owner-occupied investments (not going to be easy, but I'm sure you can handle it) and see what outlets they may have that you've never thought of.  Hate to say it, but decent lawyers have a tendency to know things we don't and given the situation and the documentation, you may be able to get some assistance that way?

    I would be soft in how you tackle it otherwise since this, like you said, is an $800k duplex and your first/last isn't going to cover much if she goes demolition mode.  You'll get her out, but good luck suing for damages; great way to spend the rehab amount on legal costs and you'll probably never collect.  I like the idea of targeting her credit score and letting her know that, but that also incentivizes her to stay, which you don't want.

    Good luck; sounds like a bad situation and I'm sure you'll learn a lot from it.  If you're genuinely afraid she's going to shoot you on your way up the stairs and want to use that to get her out, though, I'd recommend you move out now; staying around and saying 'howdy' as you pass her in the hall isn't a great way to show the seriousness, on your end, of these death threats.

    Let us know the solution!

  • Cheshire, CT · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 60 votes
    6y

    If you don't *have* to provide her access to the basement, then don't. Obviously don't violate your own lease, but lock away all those expensive basement items.

    I would also start stockpiling as much money as you possibly can for repairs on the unit. If you're living there and not collecting rent, it might be hard, but you already know that she's will to damage things. God only knows what you'll have to seriously fix whenever you get her out.

    Wish I could offer more advice. Just think about the stories you'll have right down the road, right? Right?

    Also, if she threatens your with the virus at any point, that is an incredibly serious offense at the moment. Keep that in mind.

  • Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Sorry to hear you are going through this. Tough times don't last, tough people do. I think im referencing @Jay Hinrichs on one of his posts. Anyway, don't let the threats or anything else scare you. People do weird things. And you find this out more and more once you become a landlord. Its part of the course. Try and take some positive out of it:

    1. You are developing thick skin.

    2. You have experienced the worst early on, making it easier down the road.

    3. You are finding creative ways to pay your bills (which too will help you out in the long run).

    I would suggest refinancing with the rates where they are. You will atleast save a couple hundred dollars a month. Have them roll the closing costs into the loan. I would also make sure between you and your brother you two can pay the mortgage at all costs. Living in MA in a nice area, you wont lose out if you hang on to your real estate. Pick up side jobs, sell stuff on ebay. Become very frugal!

    Good luck

  • Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Check the ban. In Seattle there is a ban on evictions, unless the tenant is a threat of the other residents.

  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson Wow! Sorry to hear about your situation. Sounds like a nightmare. 

    Since many municipalities are not hearing eviction cases right now, the only thing you can do is work within the law. Put all your notices in writing. Document everything. Yes, you can try to pay her to leave. Though, it may not work. 

    Not sure how you feel about animals, but you may want to look into getting a dog. Animals can sense danger from their masters. If you're up to training and caring for an animal, a dog is an excellent deterrent against unwanted strangers and intruders. 

    Best of luck with your situation. Hang in there! 

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y

    This thread should be required reading for any want-to-be house hackers.  

    You have your own "Pacific Heights" scenario.  I am seriously wondering if this is a similar situation.  Force you to fail so she can purchase from a distress owner or a foreclosed RE.  Her actions could be directly derived from the movie.  If you have not seen the movie it may be worth it just so you can compare notes.

    Something to consider.  It likely really is just a mentally sick older lady but I cannot get past her credit score, her timing on not paying, her keeping it below the being arrested level, the level of stress she has been able to inflict, etc..  She could be clever like a fox.

    Good luck

  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    6y

    @ Alex: The best way to deal with a crazy person is not to react with an equal level of crazy.  That's their game.  Don't play it.  She is in control if you do.  Just realize that this is not a person you can reason with or that will deal with you fairly and nothing you do will change that.  

    Realize that what happened here is not your fault.  It sounds like this woman is well practiced at the art of scamming landlords.  She likely has done this before, possibly multiple times.  So don't beat yourself up over this.  Take a deep breath, then call the best eviction attorney in the area and see what your options are.  In the interim make sure to document everything between you and the tenant.  Don't take her calls, relegate everything to email.  Also don't react to her brand of crazy.  That just lets her think she is winning.  

  • Property Manager · Riverside, CA · Member since 2020 · 107 posts · 65 votes
    6y
    1. Talk to an attorney
    2. Document, document, and document.
    3. When dealing with the police, mental services etc the squeeky wheel gets the oil.

    I had to do an eviction on a female my parents had helped out by allowing them to move into their unused 2nd story. End result was 2 of the 3 people that had moved in with the lady, went to jail. One in Federal Jail after the "fiancee" was found to have turned my parents garage into a machine shop that supposedly did gun smithing. And my parents upstairs was a huge mess after the lockout. And lots of items stolen. It was an incredible soap opera, and incredibly hurtful.

    On lost rent - good luck. Usually the person evicted has nothing.
  • Shannon ConklinPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Hey Alex

    It looks to me like you did your due diligence w respect to screening. Your also new which means you wouldnt have the landlords 6 th sense that some of these investors expect you to have. It looks like you just got the bad BAD apple.You mentioned dealing with this for "quite some time" but in the scheme of things it will be a blink of an eye in your investor career. You will also have a killer warning story for new investors like myself. Maybe make living there a little more uncomfortable for her as she has for you.Im sure some of the more experienced landlords know ways. Couple that with a cash out deal and hopefully she bails as soon as the courts open back up. If she has a good credit rating , shes probably not stupid and will be aware of her limits to abuse you guys.

    Hang in there. Your next tennant will probably be awesome.

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex Johnson something you said triggered possibilities. You said you did a background check after the fact?

    Try running down the previous landlords/employers and find out what they went through and what finally worked to get her out? Odds are there is a pattern you might be able to use

    And if she has a trail of wreckage maybe banding your damages together is some kind of leverage?

  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    6y

    That or invest in a more landlord friendly state like Arizona or Texas.  



    https://learn.roofstock.com/blog/landlord-friendly-states

  • Property Manager · El Monte, CA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    Personally I feel like it’s going to be a waiting game, at this point it’s clear that you will not be able to evict her (right now) till everything clears up. First and foremost don’t blame your self for going with your gut instinct and allowing her to rent from you guys. Regardless how many books or articles you can read on screening tenants, NONE of us are safe from going through what your going through. Especially when it comes to age because they can be sane one month then the next they go bananas..Really It can happen to the best of us, unfortunately you lucked out. Your main priority now would be your safety, for all we know your tenant could be struggling with some really heavy psychological problems. Just keep a record of things, avoid any contact with her and just focus on any plans you might have when you do evict her. And wash your hands...

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Less is more with this kind of tenant so limit communication, use the broken record technique when you talk to her (repeat yourself) and acknowledge what she says.  

    If getting her out is the most important thing then try cash for keys scenario. If  you think a judgement is going to get you something and getting that money is important to you, you have to wait for eviction. You will get a judgement for back rent but no telling if you will collect it.

    Lock her out of the basement if she is messing with things there particularly if your furnace is in the basement. It is a safety issue. Don't accuse just say we have had issues with the basement so we locked it. If your lawyer thinks that is an issue you can set laundry hours one day a week. Good luck. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2010 · 65 posts · 45 votes
    6y

    @Sue K.

    Great advice.

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