Self-Property Managers...Any Regrets?

Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 1 vote

I'm debating self-managing my current primary residence following a job relocation (and move) to NYC, and in part of that decision I wanted to check with some fellow BP'ers to see if there were any 1st timers that could share their experience? Is it that daunting? I considered selling outright to pocket $80k (net of fees) tax-free, but creating passive income where I could net potentially $800-$1,000 per month would be great (rent $2.2k to $2k w/ $1,200 mortgage). Plus I get to keep my attractive 3.375% 30-year mortgage which is another bonus in comparison to today's rates. Houses go quick in my neighborhood (selling or renting) because it's in a good community in a great school district and convenient to major highways. The thought of paying 10% fees (plus 1st month's rent) is not ideal if I could place a tenant myself. I had my real estate license so I have some level of understanding of the process, but my full-time job has consumed my time so I've focusing on that instead.

For background on the property:
*15-year old townhome
*3 bedroom/2.5 bath
*Unfinished walkout basement
*Trex Deck
*Good schools

To prepare to rent I've replaced all 3 toilets with brand new units, new sump pump, new garbage disposal, new modern kitchen faucet, and new washing machine water lines. I have some other odds & ends to do but the goal is to make sure there are little to no calls about any issues. If there are any issues I don't mind fielding a call here and there to send out a handyman to fix.

Any advise would help from those that made the leap into self-management. Any tips, do's/dont's, etc. would be great!

0 Reply

106 views

Most Popular Reply

David M.

Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes

@Account Closed

I've managed all my own rentals... When things go "wrong," yes its take time. Time to change the locks, time to survey the property and what work needs ot be done, time to get the workers arranged, time to arrange getting them access (either I open the door, my realtor helps out, or I give them the keys at some time), etc. Otherwise, it can pretty boring (which is good) when all I am doing every month is jotting down that I see the rent being deposited in my bank account every month. Yes, you will get calls, nowadays texts, from the tenants when something is broken, and you have to, or should anyway, deal with it. You are just managing another household... Depending on your personal life, its just part of the hustle.

I see lots of people, I guess aka new investors, geting sucked into all the various "fancy" new-fandangled "systems" and technology. Honestly, I think the creation of email, voice message (or an answering machine) and text messages is more than enough. If you can make all the arrangements yourself (or I usually let the tenants arrnange for the repairmen since I'd just be an intermediary messenger making the schedule), why do you need to pay for some fancy scheduling/messaging system? Or a property manager...

Hope that helps. I'd be happy to chat if you like.

7 Reply

See this reply in the discussion

30 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

David M.
Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Account Closed
I've managed all my own rentals... When things go "wrong," yes its take time. Time to change the locks, time to survey the property and what work needs ot be done, time to get the workers arranged, time to arrange getting them access (either I open the door, my realtor helps out, or I give them the keys at some time), etc. Otherwise, it can pretty boring (which is good) when all I am doing every month is jotting down that I see the rent being deposited in my bank account every month. Yes, you will get calls, nowadays texts, from the tenants when something is broken, and you have to, or should anyway, deal with it. You are just managing another household... Depending on your personal life, its just part of the hustle.
I see lots of people, I guess aka new investors, geting sucked into all the various "fancy" new-fandangled "systems" and technology. Honestly, I think the creation of email, voice message (or an answering machine) and text messages is more than enough. If you can make all the arrangements yourself (or I usually let the tenants arrnange for the repairmen since I'd just be an intermediary messenger making the schedule), why do you need to pay for some fancy scheduling/messaging system? Or a property manager...
Hope that helps. I'd be happy to chat if you like.
7 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
4y
Are you asking if anyone regrets self-managing?
Speaking for myself, I have no regrets whatsoever. At least in my little corner of the world I manage my properties better than any PM would manage them, to the point where I have had other investors ask me to manage their properties locally. The PMs around here suck and aren't worth anything you would pay them.
I am not anti-PM but I am against the idea that managing a rental is so complicated that only a "professional" could do it for you. It's not rocket science, doesn't take a ton of time to learn to do right, and with all of the technology available today it's far easier than it was 20 years ago.
Podcast Guest on Show #243
Skyline Properties
View Page
5 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
There are pros and cons to both. I can tell you that I manage property for about 150 different owners. Over half of them tried self-management before hiring me, and the majority of them make more money after paying my fees than they were making on their own. I know the market and keep rent rates at a premium. I nip problems in the bud and get rid of problem tenants quickly, whereas private Landlords often allowed tenants to go for many months without payment before they would do something about it. I inspect regularly, while private Landlords would often go for years without stepping foot inside their rentals. I renew with rent increases, while private Landlords may go a decade or more without a single increase. I know the law. I have policies and procedures in place. I have better screening processes.
Self management is a valid option, but be honest about your time and ability.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
Website View Page
6 Reply
Steve Stasiuk
Property Manager · Providence Rhode Island · Member since 2022 · 1 post · 2 votes
4y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

There are pros and cons to both. I can tell you that I manage property for about 150 different owners. Over half of them tried self-management before hiring me, and the majority of them make more money after paying my fees than they were making on their own. I know the market and keep rent rates at a premium. I nip problems in the bud and get rid of problem tenants quickly, whereas private Landlords often allowed tenants to go for many months without payment before they would do something about it. I inspect regularly, while private Landlords would often go for years without stepping foot inside their rentals. I renew with rent increases, while private Landlords may go a decade or more without a single increase. I know the law. I have policies and procedures in place. I have better screening processes.
Self management is a valid option, but be honest about your time and ability.

Nathan is spot on with how PM companies actively manage your investment. And while there are plenty of success stories of people who self-manage, it is not a passive endeavor, you need to consider the following (and I consider these paths to success for PM companies and self-managers alike):

1) Be available to address emergency situations 24/7: an unaddressed emergency can lead to catastrophic damages-make it easy for the tenant to reach you at any time
2) Keep all of your accounting and books compartmentalized so you can take advantage of any and all tax breaks and savings
3) Do not establish personal relationships with tenants: It is difficult for a manger who has established a relationship with their tenants to perform evictions/raise rents/impose late-fees/enforce lease provisions
4) Do establish relationships with vendors before the problem arises: that way, when an issue does arise, you aren't hunting for somebody you think can do the job and will do it fairly. Plumbers and electricians are at the top of this list.
I often advise potential clients that when making the decision of self-management vs. hiring a property manager: consider this is an investment property and is likely only a component of your investment portfolio. Do you actively manage your other investments (401K, IRAs etc) or do you trust financial professionals to invest for you? Sure you can open an etrade account (or self manage) or do you see the value in having a professional advise you and get you the best ROI on your investment.

Hope this helps and good luck!
2 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
4y
For my 1 property out of area I would get a good PM. Not worth the learning curve of effective, compliant screening even for 1 property.

After 17 years of self-managing 3 dozen, I consolidated half into a managed community.

My regrets revolve around being too soft on breachers of rules and slow/no payers. I also didn't inspect enough periodically.

My PM is ok but liked to touch the property too often (at $75 a pop). Even though they only charged 8.25% of gross rents and no fill or renewal fees, they didn't triage service calls enough and lit me up for $150 a month to collect $60 in coin laundry quarters, for instance.

I threw up my hands and sold 85% on contracts. I have to do much to get any kind of return from a PM. They have to call in licensees like plumbers or electricians to do basic stuff like changing a light fixture or a garbage disposal. They'd waste $ repairing old fluorescent lights. Stupid. I'll be the lender instead,
3 Reply
Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
4y
I have 4 SFHs that I own and manage. the only caveat and difference is that they are in my area. However, I am confident that if I had to move, I have made enough contacts that I could get things handled. Heck, I have had things handled without going to the local property.
If you have the connections, handyman, plumber, HVAC, etc... Then you are good. It is boring. I don't have something breaking every day/week/month. I haven't gotten a call at 2am either.  I did deal with a 2 yr old water heater that decided to break while I was in Vegas. I called one of the more expensive companies to come and do the repair at the time because it was best at that time. I only paid $200 or $300 more.
You have the benefit of living there, knowing people and knowing the area. Sounds like you are in a class A neighborhood, which is easier to rent. Tenant turnover will be a pain and probably require you to make a trip down there, but that should only happen once every couple of years. I think of it this way: If i have to spend 20 hours to get something done and I saved $2,000. That is $100 an hour. I think it is worth my time. That is just a turnover. Not counting the monthly cash flow you will get and you don't have to spend time for.
Try it. If you don't like it, you can always go to a PM. That is the beauty of it. I recommend you join your local REIA. They may have a fprum you can join and get local recommendations.
Yes, a prior poster mentions that private LLs don't raise rents, etc. Keep in mind, turnover costs money and time. I don't care the amount of work you do. Turnovers cost money. At the very least you are losing a month of rental income. Generally, PMs make money on turnovers.  They charge you a releasing fee, if the tenant stays. If they don't stay, they charge you for the work that needs to be done. usually they make money off that too and then they charge you 1 month rent to get a new person in there. So if you look at the LL not raising rent as a negative, look at all the money it costs you after a lease is up. If they charge you a $200 releasing fee, the markup has to be at least $20 a month. For some tenants/areas that is a lot. And what if the values of rent don't increase that much and they only get $10 raise?
I have posts on the FREE systems I use. In my mind,  I can't justify 10% of my gross collected rent for someone to just answer a phone.  Feel free to look up my prior posts.
I am not anti-PM, but the dollars and cents don't make me enjoy. I save over $700 a month which would be 10%. Call me cheap, but I will take a couple of calls spend up to 7 hours a month to save that. Hell, that is over $8,400 a year extra in my pocket. That pays for most of the repairs I need to do every year!
Don't get caught in the hype. Try self managing and if you don't like it then get a PM. My advice.
1 Reply
David M.
Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Account Closed
I think another aspect missing here is PM are the only ones that help you find and vet tenants. Your real estate agent can help do that too. In fact , I believe pm need to have their license anyway and be associate with a broker to market your property for tenants anyway since it becomes brokering of real property.
So, if you find a good real estate agent (took me two years to find mine when I started), there now becomes two of you basically…. Make any sense?

0 Reply
Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
4y
Quote from @David M.:

@Account Closed
I think another aspect missing here is PM are the only ones that help you find and vet tenants. Your real estate agent can help do that too. In fact , I believe pm need to have their license anyway and be associate with a broker to market your property for tenants anyway since it becomes brokering of real property.
So, if you find a good real estate agent (took me two years to find mine when I started), there now becomes two of you basically…. Make any sense?

Just to clarify. I find and vet my own tenants. The system I use, TurboTenant, which posts to 20 different sites to include Realtor.com and Apartments.com. When you have people of interest it pulls evictions, convictions and credit. Doesn’t cost a dime to you. Credit pulls cost $50 each. I had a vacancy in November that I had over 30 people interested and was rented over 1 weekend. I just had another vacancy this month where I had over 50 people interested and was rented in less than a week.

I also have an extremely demanding full time job. I have zero regrets and the savings I make monthly/annually are justified to me.
PMs or realtors are not the only ones helping finding a tenant.
0 Reply
Samuel Mes
Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 0 votes
4y
Quote from @Joe Martella:

I have 4 SFHs that I own and manage. the only caveat and difference is that they are in my area. However, I am confident that if I had to move, I have made enough contacts that I could get things handled. Heck, I have had things handled without going to the local property.
If you have the connections, handyman, plumber, HVAC, etc... Then you are good. It is boring. I don't have something breaking every day/week/month. I haven't gotten a call at 2am either.  I did deal with a 2 yr old water heater that decided to break while I was in Vegas. I called one of the more expensive companies to come and do the repair at the time because it was best at that time. I only paid $200 or $300 more.
You have the benefit of living there, knowing people and knowing the area. Sounds like you are in a class A neighborhood, which is easier to rent. Tenant turnover will be a pain and probably require you to make a trip down there, but that should only happen once every couple of years. I think of it this way: If i have to spend 20 hours to get something done and I saved $2,000. That is $100 an hour. I think it is worth my time. That is just a turnover. Not counting the monthly cash flow you will get and you don't have to spend time for.
Try it. If you don't like it, you can always go to a PM. That is the beauty of it. I recommend you join your local REIA. They may have a fprum you can join and get local recommendations.
Yes, a prior poster mentions that private LLs don't raise rents, etc. Keep in mind, turnover costs money and time. I don't care the amount of work you do. Turnovers cost money. At the very least you are losing a month of rental income. Generally, PMs make money on turnovers.  They charge you a releasing fee, if the tenant stays. If they don't stay, they charge you for the work that needs to be done. usually they make money off that too and then they charge you 1 month rent to get a new person in there. So if you look at the LL not raising rent as a negative, look at all the money it costs you after a lease is up. If they charge you a $200 releasing fee, the markup has to be at least $20 a month. For some tenants/areas that is a lot. And what if the values of rent don't increase that much and they only get $10 raise?
I have posts on the FREE systems I use. In my mind,  I can't justify 10% of my gross collected rent for someone to just answer a phone.  Feel free to look up my prior posts.
I am not anti-PM, but the dollars and cents don't make me enjoy. I save over $700 a month which would be 10%. Call me cheap, but I will take a couple of calls spend up to 7 hours a month to save that. Hell, that is over $8,400 a year extra in my pocket. That pays for most of the repairs I need to do every year!
Don't get caught in the hype. Try self managing and if you don't like it then get a PM. My advice.

Do you have a warranty company for all these properties? Ie, when a tenant calls with a problem, do you go through a warranty company for plumbing, A/C etc or do you go directly to subcontractors? What is the benefit of your method?
0 Reply
Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
4y
@Samuel Mes

Depends. On 3 of my properties I have a "worry free" contract on the furnace and AC units. I shared the information with the tenants so they call them direct in case there are any issues. that is the only insurance I carry.  I don't have the insurance on the other property because the gas company doesn't offer any of the services, but my HVAC guy doesn't live far away.

As for plumbing, appliances or anything else I don't carry insurance. Most things:  closet falling off track, leaking shower, etc... can be fixed by a handyman and most likely, wouldn't be covered by a home warranty company. If appliances break, I purchase them from a scratch and dent place and just get new one. The thought there is if I spend $200 to repair a fridge, if it doesn't work, then it is going to cost another service call along with an angry tenant. The other service call puts me about half way there. I rather get a new appliance and call it a day. Others would say I am crazy, but piece of mind for me is worth it. Again, a luxury I have with having an additional $8k in my pocket from self managing and it keeps the tenant happy who will then stay longer and decrease turnover. Also it gives you justification to raise the rent next go around and the tenant has a new fridge.

Again, for the warranties I have - the tenants are instructed to contact the warranty company directly, not me. I gave them the account number and phone number. This ensures that they get the quickest service and there is direct scheduling.

As for scheduling, I do not get in the middle of that game. I give the handyman direct contact with the tenant and let them figure out schedules. I will get told later on when things are scheduled so I know when things are going to be done.

As for the benefit? I don't know if there are any benefits when things break. It is a matter of convenience in getting things repaired. One thing that I had to learn is that not everything is an emergency or a crisis. You are going to have those stubborn repairs. As long as you show that you are doing your best to get progress towards the solution, any reasonable person will be appreciative or understanding. I get my repairs to be as hands off as possible. I don't go to the repairs myself unless I feel there is a need. I do follow up with the tenant , usually via text, to check in and see if things are OK.
I also am a REIA member. If there is someone that I need and don't have access to I ask my fellow investors who give references. I will go with those people.

I hope this helps.
3 Reply
Erin AzarPro Member
Rental Property Investor · IN · Member since 2021 · 47 posts · 36 votes
4y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

There are pros and cons to both. I can tell you that I manage property for about 150 different owners. Over half of them tried self-management before hiring me, and the majority of them make more money after paying my fees than they were making on their own. I know the market and keep rent rates at a premium. I nip problems in the bud and get rid of problem tenants quickly, whereas private Landlords often allowed tenants to go for many months without payment before they would do something about it. I inspect regularly, while private Landlords would often go for years without stepping foot inside their rentals. I renew with rent increases, while private Landlords may go a decade or more without a single increase. I know the law. I have policies and procedures in place. I have better screening processes.
Self management is a valid option, but be honest about your time and ability.

You may have sold me on using a PM also. We self- manage, but I do see more issues creeping in with the economy in the current state -tenants not paying full rent, trying to exit early without paying last month rent etc. We will likely move to a Prop Mgr for the exact reasons you stated. Starting to see too many renters not adhering to the agreed lease payment, pay dates and exit requirements. We are also very very forgiving on exits - aka we try to make it easy for our tenants to move onto other properties without penalty. We would probably be better served with a PM.
0 Reply
Brian Ellis
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
My only regrets as a self managing landlord is buying property with large yards and driveways. I always included snow removal and landscaping in my leases. Its not that much work, but the fact that I used to work at a w2 job, I would need to find time throughout the week to cut the grass, and shovel driveways at 4 am. I NEVER regret doing maintenance work like fixing minor issues. I can pay myself $120 an hour and write it off as opposed to paying someone else $120 and writing it off.
Once you get to 4-5 properties it can become a real pain in the butt. But all in all, I have saved a lot of money by self managing. Thousands of dollars a year in savings makes a big difference for someone trying to grow their portfolio.
2 Reply
Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
4y
Quote from @Brian Ellis:

My only regrets as a self managing landlord is buying property with large yards and driveways. I always included snow removal and landscaping in my leases. Its not that much work, but the fact that I used to work at a w2 job, I would need to find time throughout the week to cut the grass, and shovel driveways at 4 am. I NEVER regret doing maintenance work like fixing minor issues. I can pay myself $120 an hour and write it off as opposed to paying someone else $120 and writing it off.
Once you get to 4-5 properties it can become a real pain in the butt. But all in all, I have saved a lot of money by self managing. Thousands of dollars a year in savings makes a big difference for someone trying to grow their portfolio.

Are those properties SFHs? One of the benefits of my SFH portfolio is that the tenants are responsible for lawn care and snow removal.
0 Reply
Samuel Mes
Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 0 votes
4y
Quote from @Joe Martella:

@Samuel Mes

Depends. On 3 of my properties I have a "worry free" contract on the furnace and AC units. I shared the information with the tenants so they call them direct in case there are any issues. that is the only insurance I carry.  I don't have the insurance on the other property because the gas company doesn't offer any of the services, but my HVAC guy doesn't live far away.

As for plumbing, appliances or anything else I don't carry insurance. Most things:  closet falling off track, leaking shower, etc... can be fixed by a handyman and most likely, wouldn't be covered by a home warranty company. If appliances break, I purchase them from a scratch and dent place and just get new one. The thought there is if I spend $200 to repair a fridge, if it doesn't work, then it is going to cost another service call along with an angry tenant. The other service call puts me about half way there. I rather get a new appliance and call it a day. Others would say I am crazy, but piece of mind for me is worth it. Again, a luxury I have with having an additional $8k in my pocket from self managing and it keeps the tenant happy who will then stay longer and decrease turnover. Also it gives you justification to raise the rent next go around and the tenant has a new fridge.

Again, for the warranties I have - the tenants are instructed to contact the warranty company directly, not me. I gave them the account number and phone number. This ensures that they get the quickest service and there is direct scheduling.

As for scheduling, I do not get in the middle of that game. I give the handyman direct contact with the tenant and let them figure out schedules. I will get told later on when things are scheduled so I know when things are going to be done.

As for the benefit? I don't know if there are any benefits when things break. It is a matter of convenience in getting things repaired. One thing that I had to learn is that not everything is an emergency or a crisis. You are going to have those stubborn repairs. As long as you show that you are doing your best to get progress towards the solution, any reasonable person will be appreciative or understanding. I get my repairs to be as hands off as possible. I don't go to the repairs myself unless I feel there is a need. I do follow up with the tenant , usually via text, to check in and see if things are OK.
I also am a REIA member. If there is someone that I need and don't have access to I ask my fellow investors who give references. I will go with those people.

I hope this helps.

Guidance is appreciated. Obviously A/C and furnace are the big items so it's best to have them directly covered whereas plumbing... I mean I was quoted $325 to replace a wax ring. I can buy a new toilet and have it installed for less than that. There can be septic backup leading to new pipes ... but that's probably too rare and something you have to bite the bullet on. Last question, is the worry free contract directly from the manufacturer (like Goodman or Trane), or from a 3rd party insurer specializing in A/C furnace?
0 Reply
Samuel Mes
Member since 2022 · 13 posts · 0 votes
4y
Also, curious as to how self managing works when you want to go on vacation and switch off for a month and not feel like you're on call 24/7. I guess a property management company for that 1 month can't be too lethal, can it?
0 Reply
Kimothy Bynum
Real Estate Agent · Detroit · Member since 2020 · 127 posts · 63 votes
4y
I enjoy the property management aspect. If you have a list of handymen, electricians and plumbers you should be all set. Just have a list or someway to contact people to come fix things that get messed up. Also use a good property management service to manage your properties there are some free ones out there.
0 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Samuel Mes:

Also, curious as to how self managing works when you want to go on vacation and switch off for a month and not feel like you're on call 24/7. I guess a property management company for that 1 month can't be too lethal, can it?

It's unlikely you would find a PM that would manage your property for just a month unless there was a hefty fee for doing it. You can't really switch it on and off whenever you want. You can self manage and then switch, and even switch back, but no one is going to take you on as a client if you tell them you're only planning on using their services for a month.
Podcast Guest on Show #243
Skyline Properties
View Page
0 Reply
Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
4y
Quote from @Samuel Mes:

Quote from @Joe Martella:

@Samuel Mes

Depends. On 3 of my properties I have a "worry free" contract on the furnace and AC units. I shared the information with the tenants so they call them direct in case there are any issues. that is the only insurance I carry.  I don't have the insurance on the other property because the gas company doesn't offer any of the services, but my HVAC guy doesn't live far away.

As for plumbing, appliances or anything else I don't carry insurance. Most things:  closet falling off track, leaking shower, etc... can be fixed by a handyman and most likely, wouldn't be covered by a home warranty company. If appliances break, I purchase them from a scratch and dent place and just get new one. The thought there is if I spend $200 to repair a fridge, if it doesn't work, then it is going to cost another service call along with an angry tenant. The other service call puts me about half way there. I rather get a new appliance and call it a day. Others would say I am crazy, but piece of mind for me is worth it. Again, a luxury I have with having an additional $8k in my pocket from self managing and it keeps the tenant happy who will then stay longer and decrease turnover. Also it gives you justification to raise the rent next go around and the tenant has a new fridge.

Again, for the warranties I have - the tenants are instructed to contact the warranty company directly, not me. I gave them the account number and phone number. This ensures that they get the quickest service and there is direct scheduling.

As for scheduling, I do not get in the middle of that game. I give the handyman direct contact with the tenant and let them figure out schedules. I will get told later on when things are scheduled so I know when things are going to be done.

As for the benefit? I don't know if there are any benefits when things break. It is a matter of convenience in getting things repaired. One thing that I had to learn is that not everything is an emergency or a crisis. You are going to have those stubborn repairs. As long as you show that you are doing your best to get progress towards the solution, any reasonable person will be appreciative or understanding. I get my repairs to be as hands off as possible. I don't go to the repairs myself unless I feel there is a need. I do follow up with the tenant , usually via text, to check in and see if things are OK.
I also am a REIA member. If there is someone that I need and don't have access to I ask my fellow investors who give references. I will go with those people.

I hope this helps.

Guidance is appreciated. Obviously A/C and furnace are the big items so it's best to have them directly covered whereas plumbing... I mean I was quoted $325 to replace a wax ring. I can buy a new toilet and have it installed for less than that. There can be septic backup leading to new pipes ... but that's probably too rare and something you have to bite the bullet on. Last question, is the worry free contract directly from the manufacturer (like Goodman or Trane), or from a 3rd party insurer specializing in A/C furnace?

The contract is from the local gas/electric company.
0 Reply
Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
4y
Quote from @Samuel Mes:

Also, curious as to how self managing works when you want to go on vacation and switch off for a month and not feel like you're on call 24/7. I guess a property management company for that 1 month can't be too lethal, can it?

This is where relationships come in. I recommend you go to your local REIA. Talk to other investors and perhaps you could make them a point of contact when you are a way. You can reciprocate the favor. I just go and deal with issues if/when they come up. I was just away for a week and didn't get any calls.
You are not going to get a property manager who turns on and off a month here/there.
0 Reply
Trae Robrock
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 8 votes
4y
Simply no... no regrets.
I doubt I can say much that anyone else here hasn't already.
All I can say is how I thought about it and how it worked out.
When I was about to buy my first, which was across the country, I went the PM route. I called a few.
I realized a few things:
1. They didn't care about the tenant near as much as me.
2. Their cost was reasonable for the service (depending on how I valued my own time).
3. Their pricing incentivized them to turn over tenants. I wanted to keep tenants.
I've been managing two remote properties for two years now. I've had very little to deal with. What I did deal with, was easy.
0 Reply
Eliott Elias
Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
Personally I don’t enjoy it. I’d rather spend my time looking for deals than figuring out of my tenants payed on time and if they get deposits back or not
0 Reply
Melissa S Vrobel
Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2021 · 79 posts · 36 votes
4y
I would never go back to PM. I am still good friends with mine, but I always felt like they were telling the tenant what they wanted to hear and the landlord what they wanted to hear. The years that I had PM (two different) were the most combative tenants that I have ever known. I know that there are some that go above and beyond, but until you understand what is required to manage your property the way that you want it, I would not hire a PM.
I do use apartments.com service to advertise for tenants, have them apply and manage rent payments. It used to be cozi which charged under $3 a month. I would only recommend that you try this on your own if you have friends in your neighborhood. I have a HVAC guy in my rental neighborhood that shows up within hours. I have a plumbing and roofing company that I have sat down with to discuss what if an emergency happens. The landscaper company that I know from living there has no problem showing up, working with the tenant and billing me. What I mean is that you have to have the systems in place. I would make a list of all of the trades that you would need to call or txt and hopefully most are people you have hired before. If not, ask your friends in the neighborhood who they recommend. One of my now previous clients did repairs and fixes for me and I compensated him for it. One of my other tenant's daughter was my dog walker until she graduated high school. Don't rule out that type of relationships with your tenants.
0 Reply
David M.
Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Melissa S Vrobel:

I would never go back to PM. I am still good friends with mine, but I always felt like they were telling the tenant what they wanted to hear and the landlord what they wanted to hear. The years that I had PM (two different) were the most combative tenants that I have ever known. I know that there are some that go above and beyond, but until you understand what is required to manage your property the way that you want it, I would not hire a PM.
I do use apartments.com service to advertise for tenants, have them apply and manage rent payments. It used to be cozi which charged under $3 a month. I would only recommend that you try this on your own if you have friends in your neighborhood. I have a HVAC guy in my rental neighborhood that shows up within hours. I have a plumbing and roofing company that I have sat down with to discuss what if an emergency happens. The landscaper company that I know from living there has no problem showing up, working with the tenant and billing me. What I mean is that you have to have the systems in place. I would make a list of all of the trades that you would need to call or txt and hopefully most are people you have hired before. If not, ask your friends in the neighborhood who they recommend. One of my now previous clients did repairs and fixes for me and I compensated him for it. One of my other tenant's daughter was my dog walker until she graduated high school. Don't rule out that type of relationships with your tenants.

Absolutely agree with the interaction with the tenants. I guess I'm a "nice person" and many tenants have been nice to me --- I suppose the Golden Rule in action. Yes, there are those tenants who are "nice to me" but don't really want to "bend a little." Sometimes that personal touch or that their landlord is "just another person" I think helps.
0 Reply
John Cassel
Rental Property Investor · York, PA · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 41 votes
4y
I started out self managing my one 5 unit Multifamily Property and even with hardly any maintenance requests or issues during my time self managing I would still recommend a property manager 10/10 unless there really is a bunch of crap managers in your area. I also see the advantage of self managing in the form of starting your own management division once you scale up large enough that it makes sense to have your own staff.

Basically, the my time was way better spent doing more valuable tasks than the day to day property management tasks. Especially in my case as I still have a full time job but own over 40+ units (apartments & mobile home lots). You'll be able to scale a lot quicker doing larger value tasks like finding great deals and finding funding for your next deal.

If it helps I am doing a Lunch & Learn on 7/27 @ 1230 PM EST to break down why you need a property manager to scale. No promotion, just an informational webinar that is FREE. I pinned it at the top of my FB page for "MultiFamily Roadmap" since we can't share links
0 Reply
Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
4y
It all depends on available time and experience. How much is needed depends on the Class of Property => Tenant.
Many investors set themselves up for failure because they don't truly take the time to understand:

1) The Class of the NEIGHBORHOOD they are buying in - which is relative to the overall area.

2) The Class of the PROPERTY they are buying - which is relative to the overall area.

3) The Class of the TENANT POOL the Neighborhood & Property will attract - which is relative to the overall area.

4) The Class of the CONTRACTORS that will work on their Property, given the Neighborhood location - which is relative to the overall area.

5) The Class of the PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANIES (PMC) that will manage their Property, given the Neighborhood location and the Tenants it will attract - which is relative to the overall area.

6) That a Class X NEIGHBORHOOD will have mostly Class X PROPERTIES, which will only attract Class X TENANTS, CONTRACTORS AND PMCs and deliver Class X RESULTS.

7) That OOS property Class rankings are often different than the Class ranking of the local market they live.

8) Class A is relatively easy to manage, can even be DIY remote managed from another state. Can usually allot 5-10% vacancy factor and same for maintenance.

9) Class B usually also okay, but needs more attention from owner and/or PMC. Vacancy and maintenance factors should be higher than for Class A as homes will be older, have more deferred maintenance and tenants will be harder on them.

10) Class C can be relatively successful with a great PMC (do NOT hire the cheapest!), but very difficult to DIY remote manage. Vacancy and maintenance factors should be higher than for Class A or B. Homes will have even more deferred maintenance and tenants will be even harder on them.

11) Class D pretty much requires an OWNER to be on location and at the property 3-4 times/week. Most quality PMCs will not manage these properties as they understand most owners won’t pay them enough for the time required and even then it’s too difficult successfully manage them.
***Only exception is if an owner has plan & funds to reposition Class D to Class C or higher.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/776/topics/960183-what-they-dont-tell-you-about-cheap-rental-properties?highlight_post=5562799&page=3#p5562799
[email protected]248-209-6824
Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.