Beware working with Cory and Victoria Gamble in Iowa!!!

Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes

I hired them last year to act as maintenance/property management for my Dubuque properties, after Cory reached out to me on BiggerPockets in response to a post I made.

I thought things were fine until recently, I had a vacant unit which they were opening up for showings in an attempt to get it filled after sitting unrented for several weeks. After the open house, I asked for the names of interested parties that I had setup to come view the unit, Victoria didn't recall which persons were to be followed up with, and proceeded to ghost me for almost a week not returning calls or text messages, or responding to requests for the keys to be returned.

Finally, I had to send an email letting them know I would be escalating if I didn't hear back about getting the keys returned. They then returned the keys the next day with no explanation.

I hired a real estate agent who was able to fill the unit in one day. It had been vacant for over a month under Victoria's management, with plenty of interest.

When I emailed my tenants about a change in property maintenance and management they informed me that they were trying to get issues resolved with Victoria and had not been able to get her to address them. Issues ranged from water damage from a leak (they are now afraid of mold), holes where rodents are getting in, and a door that would not shut, etc.

Additionally I found out that the door on my vacant unit was not catching the lock and therefore was not locking effectively, something that she should have known and addressed.

Victoria and Cory did not inform me of any of these issues nor did they address them. They still have yet to have a conversation with me about my units that were under their care.

At least I have my keys! It had gotten to the point where I called a locksmith for to get all units rekeyed.

I would advise you steer clear of these two!!!!!

Otherwise they seem like great people.

I hate to put someone on blast but when this kind of thing happens I feel it is important to put it out there and prevent others from the same experience.

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Drew SygitBusiness Member

Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes

We'll never hear the whole truth from both sides and it may not matter.

While there are below average PMC's everywhere, there are also unrealistic owners.

Pretty sure this post will turn into a soop opera, but have way better things to do than watch soaps.

[email protected]248-209-6824

Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews

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Tara KinneyPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Bettendorf, IA · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 39 votes
3y
I ABSOLUTELY must refute this post. I met Cory and Victoria nearly 5 years ago at some real estate meetups, and they are literally the most honest and trustworthy people in the industry. They have strong morals and ethics and do not cut corners. If you are the kind of property owner that doesn't want to spend the money to fix something appropriately, then they are not for you. They run a tight ship, they will respect your time and they expect you to respect theirs.
They took my properties over last year and my cashflow has skyrocketed since then.  We got rid of a few "bad" tenants and they have been replaced with good quality tenants that pay on time and follow the rules. Anytime there is an issue, they are prompt with informing me and handling it appropriately! When things are broke, they fix it correctly the first time to avoid coming back, and they take time to teach tenants common expectations so we don't get needless requests....(ie: how to light a pilot light, turning off and on breakers, ect.). All my tenants are super happy since we have started using them.
I would put a warning on to any property managers to not take YOU on.  You sound like a nightmare to work with and I was actually quite impressed with how long they tolerated you.
You expected Victoria to go pick up a GIFT CARD for your tenant to thank her for making a "LATE" payment! Seriously?!!! Why would you incentivize someone for paying rent LATE?!! That was RED FLAG #1 for me one who they were dealing with.
Stop micro-managing and let people do what they know how to do. I have ZERO problems with my tenants. All maintenance issues are handled quickly and correctly. My recent turnover was done quickly and a new tenant placed in less than a week after putting back on the market at a higher monthly rental than it was previously.
I question your Real estate agent that got someone in there in "one day". Was a proper background check done? Did they check references? Did they verify income? That's a red flag also. Getting a tenant in there quickly does no good if they can't pay rent on time, or constantly cause problems. I would rather wait a few weeks for a quality tenant that will stay and respect my property rather than get one in their quickly that is just going to cause me problems!
Last, if you ever talked to me they way you talked to them, I would fire you immediately. Just because you hire someone to do a job, does not ever give you the right to treat or talk to someone so rudely.
What's funny is they took you on because another property management company did not WANT your business because of how high maintenance YOU are. Don't go throwing stones if you live in a glass house.
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Danny Polanski
Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 184 posts · 182 votes
3y
It turns me off when a company speaks to one client, about another.
And with what you included in your reply, they must have talked a lot about the OP with you.

2 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Danny Polanski:

It turns me off when a company speaks to one client, about another.
And with what you included in your reply, they must have talked a lot about the OP with you.

yes interesting discussion.. my experince with these things is the owners tend to be completely non realistic about how things should happen how quick what to fix what not to fix .. I remember one house in jackson MS i had a loan on and my borrower had a tenant in there and she was from LA and was starting to waffle on paying me so I happened to be in Jackson and swung by the home.. there was a moving van you know moving the few furnishing most tenants have and of course the big screens.. I asked her why are you moving she said look at that tree over there I then noticed a big pine tree leaning way to much was going to fail fall right through the roof.. I called the owner and she said it as 800 to take it down and she did not want to spend the money. well 100% section 8 tenant left client now had a vacant house and in 6 months she lost it to me and all her equity.. dump landlord LOL
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Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
3y
We'll never hear the whole truth from both sides and it may not matter.
While there are below average PMC's everywhere, there are also unrealistic owners.
Pretty sure this post will turn into a soop opera, but have way better things to do than watch soaps.
[email protected]248-209-6824
Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews
Website View Page
4 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Tara Kinney:

I ABSOLUTELY must refute this post. I met Cory and Victoria nearly 5 years ago at some real estate meetups, and they are literally the most honest and trustworthy people in the industry. They have strong morals and ethics and do not cut corners. If you are the kind of property owner that doesn't want to spend the money to fix something appropriately, then they are not for you. They run a tight ship, they will respect your time and they expect you to respect theirs.
They took my properties over last year and my cashflow has skyrocketed since then.  We got rid of a few "bad" tenants and they have been replaced with good quality tenants that pay on time and follow the rules. Anytime there is an issue, they are prompt with informing me and handling it appropriately! When things are broke, they fix it correctly the first time to avoid coming back, and they take time to teach tenants common expectations so we don't get needless requests....(ie: how to light a pilot light, turning off and on breakers, ect.). All my tenants are super happy since we have started using them.
I would put a warning on to any property managers to not take YOU on.  You sound like a nightmare to work with and I was actually quite impressed with how long they tolerated you.
You expected Victoria to go pick up a GIFT CARD for your tenant to thank her for making a "LATE" payment! Seriously?!!! Why would you incentivize someone for paying rent LATE?!! That was RED FLAG #1 for me one who they were dealing with.
Stop micro-managing and let people do what they know how to do. I have ZERO problems with my tenants. All maintenance issues are handled quickly and correctly. My recent turnover was done quickly and a new tenant placed in less than a week after putting back on the market at a higher monthly rental than it was previously.
I question your Real estate agent that got someone in there in "one day". Was a proper background check done? Did they check references? Did they verify income? That's a red flag also. Getting a tenant in there quickly does no good if they can't pay rent on time, or constantly cause problems. I would rather wait a few weeks for a quality tenant that will stay and respect my property rather than get one in their quickly that is just going to cause me problems!
Last, if you ever talked to me they way you talked to them, I would fire you immediately. Just because you hire someone to do a job, does not ever give you the right to treat or talk to someone so rudely.
What's funny is they took you on because another property management company did not WANT your business because of how high maintenance YOU are. Don't go throwing stones if you live in a glass house.

Obviously a friend of theirs as I know you are in business with them, Tara, as discussed when I spoke with you and you gave me a reference. I hired them because they project manager who oversaw the rehab at the properties was not equipped or experienced in property management. I purchased these properties last year, Victoria and Cory are the first property managers that were hired.
All of what I wrote was true. I never spoke to Victoria in any way that would merit this sort of behavior. I simply asked her to please get names of the people who were interested in the property so that I could follow up with them. As for micro managing, Victoria and Cory do not have their real estate license and so are not able to list the apartments it is something that I had to do as owner. It was the setup that was suggested by Victoria herself. When I hired them I was told that Victoria would have her real estate license before long and they would be able to list and do showings for my next vacancies. That never came to fruition.
I have never been anything but pleasant and professional in my dialog and messages with Victoria. Asking her for the actual names of people I need to follow up with and feedback about the showings is not unreasonable.
As for the maintenance, at Victoria's suggestion I setup an email that we both had access to and advised tenants to send their maintenance requests through there. So that we could both see them for transparency purposes as I was on the fence about their services.  In practice, I only got involved when she called me to inform me of an issue that needed to be paid for. In fact, to address the accusation you make of me about not wanting to spend money, I'm not sure where that came from as I have no dealing with you. I have always made it clear that it is my intention to address issues, and cost is obviously a part of that and I never scoffed at the cost of addressing issues so whatever you have been told or are assuming is just that, gossip or assumption. I'm no slum lord, I want my tenants to feel their homes are maintained and worth the premium that they pay.
Yes, the real estate agent filled the unit in one day. I did a full background check, credit, criminal, eviction, employment. An outstanding candidate who was thrilled to take the apartment. I have the receipts to back it up and if anyone is looking for an outstanding agent to fill a unit in Dubuque, I've got a referral.
Additionally, the new property manager already got the door to the previously vacant unit fixed, and met with the tenants who had all those issues and was informed by the tenants that Victoria told them only to text her, not to use the designated email address. That they told her about a door that doesn't close to their unit in August when they moved in, about the water damage in October, and various other issues that she failed to even attempt to address and that I had no idea about.
As for asking her to obtain a gift card for a tenant who was late paying rent, which she didn't respond to me about and I had to do myself mind you. The tenant experienced a family emergency. The tenant had never been late, never complained, and was a good tenant. She informed me of the late payment in advance, she agreed to pay late fees, she got the money paid before the date she said she would. She is a single mother with two children. I believe in compassion and humanity. Tenants are people and sometimes bad things happen to good people and they deserve a touch of kindness and compassion. The gift card was a thank you for making the payment and also for being a great tenant and letting me know the payment would be late, it was an extension of compassion for whatever situation it was that caused this to happen. Kindness will get you a lot further than anything else in this world. It was just enough to order a pizza for her and her children, she was so thankful. If you find fault with that it says a lot about who you are.
These are long term rentals in my portfolio. I have no intention and have never micro managed them, in fact, I expect them to be on auto-pilot with a property manager handling all of the issues and day to day things.
You response is very telling. It tells that Victoria and Cory have been talking to you about my properties and business dealings, it tells others that you are in bed with them so to speak in the way that you attack me and bring up things that I never shared in the post, and which in fact are not true.
At the end of the day, if they didn't want to work for me, that is okay. The part that is not okay is not communicating that in a professional and amicable way, informing me of the outstanding issues, and returning the keys. If someone is unable to do that, then they don't belong in this business. Your post only showcases more unprofessionalism on their part.
2 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Patricia Berman:

Quote from @Tara Kinney:

I ABSOLUTELY must refute this post. I met Cory and Victoria nearly 5 years ago at some real estate meetups, and they are literally the most honest and trustworthy people in the industry. They have strong morals and ethics and do not cut corners. If you are the kind of property owner that doesn't want to spend the money to fix something appropriately, then they are not for you. They run a tight ship, they will respect your time and they expect you to respect theirs.
They took my properties over last year and my cashflow has skyrocketed since then.  We got rid of a few "bad" tenants and they have been replaced with good quality tenants that pay on time and follow the rules. Anytime there is an issue, they are prompt with informing me and handling it appropriately! When things are broke, they fix it correctly the first time to avoid coming back, and they take time to teach tenants common expectations so we don't get needless requests....(ie: how to light a pilot light, turning off and on breakers, ect.). All my tenants are super happy since we have started using them.
I would put a warning on to any property managers to not take YOU on.  You sound like a nightmare to work with and I was actually quite impressed with how long they tolerated you.
You expected Victoria to go pick up a GIFT CARD for your tenant to thank her for making a "LATE" payment! Seriously?!!! Why would you incentivize someone for paying rent LATE?!! That was RED FLAG #1 for me one who they were dealing with.
Stop micro-managing and let people do what they know how to do. I have ZERO problems with my tenants. All maintenance issues are handled quickly and correctly. My recent turnover was done quickly and a new tenant placed in less than a week after putting back on the market at a higher monthly rental than it was previously.
I question your Real estate agent that got someone in there in "one day". Was a proper background check done? Did they check references? Did they verify income? That's a red flag also. Getting a tenant in there quickly does no good if they can't pay rent on time, or constantly cause problems. I would rather wait a few weeks for a quality tenant that will stay and respect my property rather than get one in their quickly that is just going to cause me problems!
Last, if you ever talked to me they way you talked to them, I would fire you immediately. Just because you hire someone to do a job, does not ever give you the right to treat or talk to someone so rudely.
What's funny is they took you on because another property management company did not WANT your business because of how high maintenance YOU are. Don't go throwing stones if you live in a glass house.

Obviously a friend of theirs as I know you are in business with them, Tara, as discussed when I spoke with you and you gave me a reference. I hired them because they project manager who oversaw the rehab at the properties was not equipped or experienced in property management. I purchased these properties last year, Victoria and Cory are the first property managers that were hired.
All of what I wrote was true. I never spoke to Victoria in any way that would merit this sort of behavior. I simply asked her to please get names of the people who were interested in the property so that I could follow up with them. As for micro managing, Victoria and Cory do not have their real estate license and so are not able to list the apartments it is something that I had to do as owner. It was the setup that was suggested by Victoria herself. When I hired them I was told that Victoria would have her real estate license before long and they would be able to list and do showings for my next vacancies. That never came to fruition.
I have never been anything but pleasant and professional in my dialog and messages with Victoria. Asking her for the actual names of people I need to follow up with and feedback about the showings is not unreasonable.
As for the maintenance, at Victoria's suggestion I setup an email that we both had access to and advised tenants to send their maintenance requests through there. So that we could both see them for transparency purposes as I was on the fence about their services.  In practice, I only got involved when she called me to inform me of an issue that needed to be paid for. In fact, to address the accusation you make of me about not wanting to spend money, I'm not sure where that came from as I have no dealing with you. I have always made it clear that it is my intention to address issues, and cost is obviously a part of that and I never scoffed at the cost of addressing issues so whatever you have been told or are assuming is just that, gossip or assumption. I'm no slum lord, I want my tenants to feel their homes are maintained and worth the premium that they pay.
Yes, the real estate agent filled the unit in one day. I did a full background check, credit, criminal, eviction, employment. An outstanding candidate who was thrilled to take the apartment. I have the receipts to back it up and if anyone is looking for an outstanding agent to fill a unit in Dubuque, I've got a referral.
Additionally, the new property manager already got the door to the previously vacant unit fixed, and met with the tenants who had all those issues and was informed by the tenants that Victoria told them only to text her, not to use the designated email address. That they told her about a door that doesn't close to their unit in August when they moved in, about the water damage in October, and various other issues that she failed to even attempt to address and that I had no idea about.
As for asking her to obtain a gift card for a tenant who was late paying rent, which she didn't respond to me about and I had to do myself mind you. The tenant experienced a family emergency. The tenant had never been late, never complained, and was a good tenant. She informed me of the late payment in advance, she agreed to pay late fees, she got the money paid before the date she said she would. She is a single mother with two children. I believe in compassion and humanity. Tenants are people and sometimes bad things happen to good people and they deserve a touch of kindness and compassion. The gift card was a thank you for making the payment and also for being a great tenant and letting me know the payment would be late, it was an extension of compassion for whatever situation it was that caused this to happen. Kindness will get you a lot further than anything else in this world. It was just enough to order a pizza for her and her children, she was so thankful. If you find fault with that it says a lot about who you are.
These are long term rentals in my portfolio. I have no intention and have never micro managed them, in fact, I expect them to be on auto-pilot with a property manager handling all of the issues and day to day things.
You response is very telling. It tells that Victoria and Cory have been talking to you about my properties and business dealings, it tells others that you are in bed with them so to speak in the way that you attack me and bring up things that I never shared in the post, and which in fact are not true.
At the end of the day, if they didn't want to work for me, that is okay. The part that is not okay is not communicating that in a professional and amicable way, informing me of the outstanding issues, and returning the keys. If someone is unable to do that, then they don't belong in this business. Your post only showcases more unprofessionalism on their part.

This part accidentally ended up as part of her comment when I typed my reply but it is part of my reply:
Obviously a friend of theirs as I know you are in business with them, Tara, as discussed when I spoke with you and you gave me a reference. I hired them because they project manager who oversaw the rehab at the properties was not equipped or experienced in property management. I purchased these properties last year, Victoria and Cory are the first property managers that were hired.

All of what I wrote was true. I never spoke to Victoria in any way that would merit this sort of behavior. I simply asked her to please get names of the people who were interested in the property so that I could follow up with them. As for micro managing, Victoria and Cory do not have their real estate license and so are not able to list the apartments it is something that I had to do as owner. It was the setup that was suggested by Victoria herself. When I hired them I was told that Victoria would have her real estate license before long and they would be able to list and do showings for my next vacancies. That never came to fruition.

I have never been anything but pleasant and professional in my dialog and messages with Victoria. Asking her for the actual names of people I need to follow up with and feedback about the showings is not unreasonable.
As for the maintenance, at Victoria's suggestion I setup an email that we both had access to and advised tenants to send their maintenance requests through there. So that we could both see them for transparency purposes as I was on the fence about their services. In practice, I only got involved when she called me to inform me of an issue that needed to be paid for. In fact, to address the accusation you make of me about not wanting to spend money, I'm not sure where that came from as I have no dealing with you. I have always made it clear that it is my intention to address issues, and cost is obviously a part of that and I never scoffed at the cost of addressing issues so whatever you have been told or are assuming is just that, gossip or assumption. I'm no slum lord, I want my tenants to feel their homes are maintained and worth the premium that they pay.
Yes, the real estate agent filled the unit in one day. I did a full background check, credit, criminal, eviction, employment. An outstanding candidate who was thrilled to take the apartment. I have the receipts to back it up and if anyone is looking for an outstanding agent to fill a unit in Dubuque, I've got a referral.
Additionally, the new property manager already got the door to the previously vacant unit fixed, and met with the tenants who had all those issues and was informed by the tenants that Victoria told them only to text her, not to use the designated email address. That they told her about a door that doesn't close to their unit in August when they moved in, about the water damage in October, and various other issues that she failed to even attempt to address and that I had no idea about.
As for asking her to obtain a gift card for a tenant who was late paying rent, which she didn't respond to me about and I had to do myself mind you. The tenant experienced a family emergency. The tenant had never been late, never complained, and was a good tenant. She informed me of the late payment in advance, she agreed to pay late fees, she got the money paid before the date she said she would. She is a single mother with two children. I believe in compassion and humanity. Tenants are people and sometimes bad things happen to good people and they deserve a touch of kindness and compassion. The gift card was a thank you for making the payment and also for being a great tenant and letting me know the payment would be late, it was an extension of compassion for whatever situation it was that caused this to happen. Kindness will get you a lot further than anything else in this world. It was just enough to order a pizza for her and her children, she was so thankful. If you find fault with that it says a lot about who you are.
These are long term rentals in my portfolio. I have no intention and have never micro managed them, in fact, I expect them to be on auto-pilot with a property manager handling all of the issues and day to day things.
You response is very telling. It tells that Victoria and Cory have been talking to you about my properties and business dealings, it tells others that you are in bed with them so to speak in the way that you attack me and bring up things that I never shared in the post, and which in fact are not true.
At the end of the day, if they didn't want to work for me, that is okay. The part that is not okay is not communicating that in a professional and amicable way, informing me of the outstanding issues, and returning the keys. If someone is unable to do that, then they don't belong in this business. Your post only showcases more unprofessionalism on their part.
0 Votes
As for the maintenance, at Victoria's suggestion I setup an email that we both had access to and advised tenants to send their maintenance requests through there. So that we could both see them for transparency purposes as I was on the fence about their services. In practice, I only got involved when she called me to inform me of an issue that needed to be paid for. In fact, to address the accusation you make of me about not wanting to spend money, I'm not sure where that came from as I have no dealing with you. I have always made it clear that it is my intention to address issues, and cost is obviously a part of that and I never scoffed at the cost of addressing issues so whatever you have been told or are assuming is just that, gossip or assumption. I'm no slum lord, I want my tenants to feel their homes are maintained and worth the premium that they pay.
Yes, the real estate agent filled the unit in one day. I did a full background check, credit, criminal, eviction, employment. An outstanding candidate who was thrilled to take the apartment. I have the receipts to back it up and if anyone is looking for an outstanding agent to fill a unit in Dubuque, I've got a referral.
Additionally, the new property manager already got the door to the previously vacant unit fixed, and met with the tenants who had all those issues and was informed by the tenants that Victoria told them only to text her, not to use the designated email address. That they told her about a door that doesn't close to their unit in August when they moved in, about the water damage in October, and various other issues that she failed to even attempt to address and that I had no idea about.
As for asking her to obtain a gift card for a tenant who was late paying rent, which she didn't respond to me about and I had to do myself mind you. The tenant experienced a family emergency. The tenant had never been late, never complained, and was a good tenant. She informed me of the late payment in advance, she agreed to pay late fees, she got the money paid before the date she said she would. She is a single mother with two children. I believe in compassion and humanity. Tenants are people and sometimes bad things happen to good people and they deserve a touch of kindness and compassion. The gift card was a thank you for making the payment and also for being a great tenant and letting me know the payment would be late, it was an extension of compassion for whatever situation it was that caused this to happen. Kindness will get you a lot further than anything else in this world. It was just enough to order a pizza for her and her children, she was so thankful. If you find fault with that it says a lot about who you are.
These are long term rentals in my portfolio. I have no intention and have never micro managed them, in fact, I expect them to be on auto-pilot with a property manager handling all of the issues and day to day things.
You response is very telling. It tells that Victoria and Cory have been talking to you about my properties and business dealings, it tells others that you are in bed with them so to speak in the way that you attack me and bring up things that I never shared in the post, and which in fact are not true.
At the end of the day, if they didn't want to work for me, that is okay. The part that is not okay is not communicating that in a professional and amicable way, informing me of the outstanding issues, and returning the keys. If someone is unable to do that, then they don't belong in this business. Your post only showcases more unprofessionalism on their part.
0 Votes
0 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Danny Polanski:

It turns me off when a company speaks to one client, about another.
And with what you included in your reply, they must have talked a lot about the OP with you.

yes interesting discussion.. my experince with these things is the owners tend to be completely non realistic about how things should happen how quick what to fix what not to fix .. I remember one house in jackson MS i had a loan on and my borrower had a tenant in there and she was from LA and was starting to waffle on paying me so I happened to be in Jackson and swung by the home.. there was a moving van you know moving the few furnishing most tenants have and of course the big screens.. I asked her why are you moving she said look at that tree over there I then noticed a big pine tree leaning way to much was going to fail fall right through the roof.. I called the owner and she said it as 800 to take it down and she did not want to spend the money. well 100% section 8 tenant left client now had a vacant house and in 6 months she lost it to me and all her equity.. dump landlord LOL

My intent is to always address tenant issues as long as they are reasonable. Victoria didn't address issues, didn't inform me of them and the tenants were upset that she hadn't addressed any of their issues. They had a mice issue, they couldn't close one of the doors to their unit, and they had damage from a leak that taken place. All easy enough to address.
0 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Danny Polanski:

It turns me off when a company speaks to one client, about another.
And with what you included in your reply, they must have talked a lot about the OP with you.

Danny, agreed. It is telling the way that Tara knows an awful lot about these dealings. She is obviously a friend of theirs and it shows in her response which is unprofessional and a personal attack. I stated facts and my experience in my post. I have never met Tara or worked with her, but she knows a lot about me it seems.
Again, if Cory and Victoria were unhappy with the business relationship it would have been perfectly acceptable to end it amicably and part ways, no hard feelings at all. That is not what happened which is why I felt compelled to warn others.
1 Reply
Joe S.Pro Member
Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
To the OP your post may be true to whatever degree it is true. The situation at hand though is that the general public does not know to what degree it is true and to what degree you will publicly shame and denounce someone that gets on your bad side. I hired someone about a month ago to do a job they took their payment upfront $1200 worth and probably only done a third of the job. Whereas it was something that I was hiring them to do monthly I promptly let them know I would not be hiring them for another month. I sincerely considered giving them a bad review on their Google my business profile, but because the chances are high that they would refute it and try to shame me as well I refrained. Someone at the Bigger Pockets staff could possibly take this thread down if you asked him to. I don’t know the people that you referred to and I don’t invest in Iowa so it’s not something I was put up to even suggesting. Lol

Anyways congratulations on your real estate holdings sounds like you are an up-and-coming real estate investor. :-)

0 Reply
Ricardo R.Pro Member
Property Manager · Michigan Ctr, MI · Member since 2016 · 661 posts · 581 votes
3y
@Patricia Berman hi I’m sorry for your experience but if I may approach this as someone in a completely different state and just going off of your posting… I’m sorry I’m sure there is more to the story but just going by what you posted… I think you are unrealistic.
I get it over a few weeks listed is a long time but you then go over your attempt to contact your PM and say the very next week you asked for the keys… which they sent to you. A few things… we have no idea what condition your unit was in for showings and no idea if you made your PM hold to a rent price or certain criteria. Sure any realtor can fill a vacancy quite quickly, I myself am a realtor, in fact all of our PMs are, BUT after it’s filled it’s YOUR headache not your realtors… your PM has an incentive and an aligned interest to yours to find you a quality and problem free Tenant for you —- I can tell you with certainty that we turn down many more applicants than we approve because although the commission is important what is more important is that we find you a quality Tenant because we would be the ones managing the unit after the fact… something which can’t be said for a non-pm realtor; heads to beads, thank you for the commission and if there’s a problem it’s yours that is the risk you take with a non-PM realtor.
In a line previous in your posting, you also said that you asked for the names of the applicants at the open house… I don’t know how this PM conducts business but we WOULD NEVER divulge our applicants to an Owner … I get it it’s your property but 1) you are under contract with your PM; 2) the Tenant and the Applicants are the PMs client’s; 3) depending on your state and/or PM agreement you may be violating the applicants right to privacy and 4) you may violate fair housing which would also put your PM at risk… so no we don’t share applicants. We do however share if an applicant meets certain predetermined qualifying criteria but if you’re try to review a credit report or background check… no and if an Owner pressed the issue we would also just hand you back the keys, give you a salute and send you on your way.
In the grand scheme of things your money is important and you are paying for a service and your PM should be doing right by you by providing HOWEVER let’s be real… your $ although important is really inconsequential, the ONLY way it is worth it to a PM to deal with your headache is to put it into THEIR system… again THEIR system not yours. If you’re a high maintenance owner, unrealistic owner or owner that demands certain items outside of the system then your account is really just not worth keeping not only because the PM is now spending way more time dealing with you but because all other client Owners of the PM now suffer because the PM is allocating resources that they would not otherwise have to inside of their system by having to deal with ‘your way’ of doing things.
I do however agree with your regarding the maintenance but here again just barely… how long were these issues left unaddressed?; does the PM have a system that Tenants must follow to get Workorder completed? ; we’re repairs scheduled but did Tenant not allow entry for repair? Etc etc. —- if your PM has a system (most of not all do) that Tenants (and Owners) must follow to get items repaired and it’s is not followed not sure where you go from there.
I hope this helps; I know it seems like I’m coming down pretty hard on you but just wanted to give you a different perspective for reference I am an investor or many many properties myself, I’m a realtor and I also run a PMC —- I have properties that I still self-manage, properties that my PMC manages for me and properties that I have other PM’s (geography) manage for me so I’m coming at your from many different perspectives.
[email protected]810-844-1104
1 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Ricardo R.:

@Patricia Berman hi I’m sorry for your experience but if I may approach this as someone in a completely different state and just going off of your posting… I’m sorry I’m sure there is more to the story but just going by what you posted… I think you are unrealistic.
I get it over a few weeks listed is a long time but you then go over your attempt to contact your PM and say the very next week you asked for the keys… which they sent to you. A few things… we have no idea what condition your unit was in for showings and no idea if you made your PM hold to a rent price or certain criteria. Sure any realtor can fill a vacancy quite quickly, I myself am a realtor, in fact all of our PMs are, BUT after it’s filled it’s YOUR headache not your realtors… your PM has an incentive and an aligned interest to yours to find you a quality and problem free Tenant for you —- I can tell you with certainty that we turn down many more applicants than we approve because although the commission is important what is more important is that we find you a quality Tenant because we would be the ones managing the unit after the fact… something which can’t be said for a non-pm realtor; heads to beads, thank you for the commission and if there’s a problem it’s yours that is the risk you take with a non-PM realtor.
In a line previous in your posting, you also said that you asked for the names of the applicants at the open house… I don’t know how this PM conducts business but we WOULD NEVER divulge our applicants to an Owner … I get it it’s your property but 1) you are under contract with your PM; 2) the Tenant and the Applicants are the PMs client’s; 3) depending on your state and/or PM agreement you may be violating the applicants right to privacy and 4) you may violate fair housing which would also put your PM at risk… so no we don’t share applicants. We do however share if an applicant meets certain predetermined qualifying criteria but if you’re try to review a credit report or background check… no and if an Owner pressed the issue we would also just hand you back the keys, give you a salute and send you on your way.
In the grand scheme of things your money is important and you are paying for a service and your PM should be doing right by you by providing HOWEVER let’s be real… your $ although important is really inconsequential, the ONLY way it is worth it to a PM to deal with your headache is to put it into THEIR system… again THEIR system not yours. If you’re a high maintenance owner, unrealistic owner or owner that demands certain items outside of the system then your account is really just not worth keeping not only because the PM is now spending way more time dealing with you but because all other client Owners of the PM now suffer because the PM is allocating resources that they would not otherwise have to inside of their system by having to deal with ‘your way’ of doing things.
I do however agree with your regarding the maintenance but here again just barely… how long were these issues left unaddressed?; does the PM have a system that Tenants must follow to get Workorder completed? ; we’re repairs scheduled but did Tenant not allow entry for repair? Etc etc. —- if your PM has a system (most of not all do) that Tenants (and Owners) must follow to get items repaired and it’s is not followed not sure where you go from there.
I hope this helps; I know it seems like I’m coming down pretty hard on you but just wanted to give you a different perspective for reference I am an investor or many many properties myself, I’m a realtor and I also run a PMC —- I have properties that I still self-manage, properties that my PMC manages for me and properties that I have other PM’s (geography) manage for me so I’m coming at your from many different perspectives.

Ricardo,
I do appreciate your perspective. The situation was a unique one that Cory and Victoria proposed because they do not have a real estate license between them, and cannot legally be property managers. They do not screen tenants, list units, do reporting, collect rents, do evictions, or anything else like that. Cory reached out to me after I posted seeking a property manager. I interviewed and didn't want to work with the company they were doing maintenance for so they proposed this setup. I gave it a shot cause he seemed like a nice guy and Tara who commented above gave him a reference. I later found out that he and Tara own properties together.
Essentially, I was the property manager and they were my boots on the ground maintenance team. They were supposed to field maintenance requests, turnover units, and open units up for people to come view.  Upon their suggestion an email that they had access to was set up specifically for maintenance requests. However, I just found out that Victoria told my tenants that she was the property manager and to text her, not to send emails, essentially sidestepping the agreed upon process that she proposed.
As for the agent who filled the unit, they only listed and showed the unit. I handled all tenant screening. As the owner my interests lie in getting quality tenants who I know can and have a history of paying with no criminal background. I don't have and never have had an issue with any of my tenants. I've managed properties for years now. I'm the one who is at a loss when a nonpaying or problem tenant is placed. I want things to be as smooth as possible for both the property management and myself.
Maintenance wise, the vacant unit had a door that did not lock and could be pushed open. That was never addressed or even mentioned. Unit was vacant for over a month.
The tenant who had a door that was warped so would not close (entry door to back staircase, privacy and safety issue) informed me that it had been that way since August when he moved in and Victoria ignored his requests to have it addressed. The water damage issues were raised in early October along with the holes where mice were getting in. He couldn't get Victoria out to address or even look at these items. Not really acceptable from a maintenance team. The tenant was eager to get these things addressed and was very flexible in giving access to the unit. We've already been able to get a contractor in there who is working on quotes.
As a maintenance team, I gave them autonomy to field and handle requests as they saw fit. I was thankful and gracious when they addressed issues and so it was a surprise to find these things out, I thought that everything was being handled.
In fact, I would not have posted if the maintenance issues were not brought to my attention. The ghosting and not responding to messages or requests for key drop off for almost a week was unprofessional yes, but I was simply relieved to obtain the keys without having to escalate things. The maintenance items that I was not made aware of and were not addressed is where the real issue comes in. That is truly what they were hired to do. I don't believe any of my tenants or anyone should have to live with the issues they brought up for that long a period of time without at least the promise that it is being worked on.
At the end of the day people can say I'm unrealistic or micromanaging. I'm the owner. I want tenants who stay because we address maintenance issues. I want my maintenance team to address obvious and reported issues. If I'm paying my maintenance team to open the apartment up and people come in and say they want to apply, I want their name. If that makes me high maintenance, okay. I imagine that a lot of owners and property managers want the same out of their maintenance or boots on the ground team. I'm an owner who cares. I'll be that.
2 Reply
Ricardo R.Pro Member
Property Manager · Michigan Ctr, MI · Member since 2016 · 661 posts · 581 votes
3y
@Patricia Berman understandable. I will say it is an odd set up that you have or had. If they do not screen, or place Tenants or collect rents or get involved with evictions and that is what you want as your set up — they are really not your property managers or at least you have not hired them in a PM capacity. They are really more like any other contractor you would hire electrician, plumber etc. in this case they are your maintenance contractor/supervisors… I understand now; you’re the PM. But if they are not licensed then they are not legally allowed to show properties as in an open house as you mentioned but it seems that is what you instructed them to do, why?
On another note, If you are already paying a realtor for placement and are paying for backgrounds and then are also already paying trades for maintenance why not just hire a full time licensed PM?
[email protected]810-844-1104
1 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
3y
Hmmm. Couple of thoughts after reading this thread:
1. I would have probably been more magnanimous in the original thread. Instead of telling anyone else what to do, at most I would have just posted my own experience.
2. For this PM to discuss their relationship with you to such an extent that another user can come on here and take the original poster to town is so blatantly unprofessional that I would tend to believe the original poster. That reply did nothing in my opinion to make the subjects of this thread look better.
3. If my PM kept my tenant's information from me they would be fired. I've heard and refuted this foolishness on this site before. As for applicants, there's no rational reason a property owner needs to know who applied to live in the property if they are giving the PM the right to fill the vacancy, unless they suspect something illegal going on. Once they are a tenant, that is a different story. They are *never* the "PM's tenant" because the PM doesn't own anything and therefore cannot enter into a legal contract with the tenant other than as an agent of the owner. The PM is entitled to be paid for services, however those terms are worked out (first month's rent, ongoing percentage, whatever) but they have no ownership rights in the property whatsoever and you can only have a legal contract in the US when something of owned value is exchanged by either side (in this case, the property owner and the tenant). The actual legally enforceable contract is always between the owner and the tenant, with the PM authorized to act as an agent on the owner's behalf.
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4 Reply
Ricardo R.Pro Member
Property Manager · Michigan Ctr, MI · Member since 2016 · 661 posts · 581 votes
3y
@JD Martin I agree with most but keep in mind that in most cases the tenant IS the PM’s client… now there are all types of PMC’s out there some are big, some small, some legal, some not, some as agents for owner, some as landlord, some as tenant, some will enforce this, some will not…. So it’s way too big of a pool for generalities and to further compound this... it usually varies from area to area.

I will say this however, we are a successful PMC and we really take no *bs* not from Tenant and definitely not from Owners either —- Our Tenants are our clients and we are the Landlord; as far the Owner is concerned we cash flow their property and make sure it is maintained and treated with respect and that is it regarding the Owner — The property is under contract with our PMC and if an owner ever tried to interfere with our operations as PM or tried to ‘co-manage’ or make unreasonable demands, such as wanting to see a credit report, etc., we would certainly send them packing on their way; in severe instances in which the Owner tried to interject between our client (Tenant) and our operations the Owner would surely be sued for interfering with company operations and breech of contract. Your account would just not be worth keeping at that point. Food for thought.
The OP's situation however, appears to be different, it appears that she is acting as the PM and the company in question is acting as a maintenance vendor.
[email protected]810-844-1104
1 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Ricardo R.:

@Patricia Berman understandable. I will say it is an odd set up that you have or had. If they do not screen, or place Tenants or collect rents or get involved with evictions and that is what you want as your set up — they are really not your property managers or at least you have not hired them in a PM capacity. They are really more like any other contractor you would hire electrician, plumber etc. in this case they are your maintenance contractor/supervisors… I understand now; you’re the PM. But if they are not licensed then they are not legally allowed to show properties as in an open house as you mentioned but it seems that is what you instructed them to do, why?
On another note, If you are already paying a realtor for placement and are paying for backgrounds and then are also already paying trades for maintenance why not just hire a full time licensed PM?

It was what she proposed so I went with it.
I have hired a realtor PM. In fact the one that I used to fill the property will be taking over PM duties.
1 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @JD Martin:

Hmmm. Couple of thoughts after reading this thread:
1. I would have probably been more magnanimous in the original thread. Instead of telling anyone else what to do, at most I would have just posted my own experience.
2. For this PM to discuss their relationship with you to such an extent that another user can come on here and take the original poster to town is so blatantly unprofessional that I would tend to believe the original poster. That reply did nothing in my opinion to make the subjects of this thread look better.
3. If my PM kept my tenant's information from me they would be fired. I've heard and refuted this foolishness on this site before. As for applicants, there's no rational reason a property owner needs to know who applied to live in the property if they are giving the PM the right to fill the vacancy, unless they suspect something illegal going on. Once they are a tenant, that is a different story. They are *never* the "PM's tenant" because the PM doesn't own anything and therefore cannot enter into a legal contract with the tenant other than as an agent of the owner. The PM is entitled to be paid for services, however those terms are worked out (first month's rent, ongoing percentage, whatever) but they have no ownership rights in the property whatsoever and you can only have a legal contract in the US when something of owned value is exchanged by either side (in this case, the property owner and the tenant). The actual legally enforceable contract is always between the owner and the tenant, with the PM authorized to act as an agent on the owner's behalf.

JD,
I appreciate you weighing in here. You are right, I could have been a little bit more forgiving. I should have titled the post something like (Bad Experience with Property Maintenance Team) and then list my experience without saying stay away. Foresight is 20/20 and I see where I could have done that differently. I was measured and honest in my description of my experience though and I do believe that they bit off more than they could chew. I also believe that communication could have alleviated any and all of these issues.
I'm sure that this Tara lady who tried to take me to town as you say has had a good experience with this team. People can read both accounts and make decisions. But, she is obviously friends with these people, she is also a co-owner with them on one or more properties is what I was told by Cory over the course of our professional relationship. It seems like they are illegally acting as full property management for her without being in possession of a real estate license, based on her account. Either way, It feels like she is personally invested in this as she came onto my Facebook page to harass me. I had to block her. Other than that, I never met her and I don't know her. So I was appalled to read what she wrote.
Lastly, I agree with you about what you say on PMs. I agree that their contract is with the owner. If they are screening tenants then definitely no need to see information on applicants until they are tenants. Some owners like to be presented with the three best prospects to be chosen from.
What I'm learning from all of this discussion is that there are a lot of ways that PMs operate and a lot of ways that owners operate, different rules in different states and even cities. There is no room for blanket statements it seems. As an owner, I agree with you on the way I would like things to operate.
1 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Joe S.:

To the OP your post may be true to whatever degree it is true. The situation at hand though is that the general public does not know to what degree it is true and to what degree you will publicly shame and denounce someone that gets on your bad side. I hired someone about a month ago to do a job they took their payment upfront $1200 worth and probably only done a third of the job. Whereas it was something that I was hiring them to do monthly I promptly let them know I would not be hiring them for another month. I sincerely considered giving them a bad review on their Google my business profile, but because the chances are high that they would refute it and try to shame me as well I refrained. Someone at the Bigger Pockets staff could possibly take this thread down if you asked him to. I don’t know the people that you referred to and I don’t invest in Iowa  so it’s not something I was put up to even suggesting. Lol

Anyways congratulations on your real estate holdings sounds like you are an up-and-coming real estate investor. :-)

Joe,
I hear what you are saying. I simply do not feel that we should be silent about our experiences. These forums are meant for us to share our experiences. I think as I said, it was the uncovered maintenance issues that my poor tenants were living with for a while that caused me to post.
You are right, general public doesn't know what is true or not. They can read it and make their own judgements, there is no harm in that. They can contact me for more info if needed. They can read Tara's response and surmise more information from that.
As for you not posting a bad review for people who took payment upfront and didn't complete the job. In my opinion, you are not doing anyone any favors by being silent. All you are doing is allowing those people to swindle the next guy. That next guy probably would have appreciated the warning. Silence is a personal preference.
That being said, I've given these people referrals earlier in our business relationship, I've sent people their way. If I can be vocal about who I recommend I can be vocal about a bad experience.
I appreciate you congrats. I've been investing since 2016. I'm definitely on a journey. I love hearing about other people's journey as well. Thanks for dropping into my post.
1 Reply
Steve Ehrman
Troy, MI · Member since 2019 · 61 posts · 20 votes
3y
@Ricardo R. The PM was not licensed. If in Michigan like we are, the owner needs to do all screenings and signing of leases. We are in the same situation and our PM gives us all leads and signed applications.
2 Reply
Steve Ehrman
Troy, MI · Member since 2019 · 61 posts · 20 votes
3y
@Ricardo R. Well, after my experiences with property managers, I would always require right of refusal of ANY tenant.
A past PM put in a professional bad tenant. Did big damage and had to be evicted. I found out from a simple court search the tenant had several evictions. When I asked about this, the PM said that the evictions didn't come up.
Same PM tried to churn a tenant in a property that is next to the house we live in. A young couple, expecting their first child when their landlord said that their lease would not be renewed. The PM asked us to show the property to their client, which we did. They moved in. After a year the new mom came to us in tears. She was asking why we didn't want to renew their lease. First we heard of it.
They stayed 2 more years before buying a house.
We don't use them anymore.
2 Reply
Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
3y
@Steve Ehrman If a PMC is not properly licensed, they can't do much in Michigan!
Would love to know who your previous PMC was, please email us as we don't DM here.
[email protected]248-209-6824
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1 Reply
Patricia Berman
OP
Investor · Golden, CO · Member since 2017 · 56 posts · 57 votes
3y
Quote from @Steve Ehrman:

@Ricardo R. The PM was not licensed. If in Michigan like we are, the owner needs to do all screenings and signing of leases. We are in the same situation and our PM gives us all leads and signed applications.

Steve, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one doing it this way. I think I prefer it to the horror stories that even you mention about PMs. The thing about the PM payment structure is that they make more money when they turnover units, so they don't really have an incentive to treat tenants well and get their leases renewed. Churning them and even having to go to evictions court is more profitable to them in some of the ways they set up their pay structures. Exactly what I am trying to avoid. It is hard to trust blindly and turn over all of everything to one manager even when they are properly qualified.
Thanks for dropping in here!
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