PM doing lawn care without asking

PM doing lawn care without asking

Financial Advisor · Member since 2022 · 67 posts · 67 votes

I own a duplex in Ohio with one unit occupied. I’m remodeling the empty unit so I can get it rented out soon. My property management team charges me 8% monthly and I like them better than the other ones that charge 10%. 

My issue is that the contract allows them to make decisions (I.e maintenance) without asking me for approval. I like to be in full control of what goes on at my property and do not want them to make decisions without asking me. 

One example is that my PM hired a Gardner for lawn care and he made two trips for $40 each. Recently the tenant paid $850 rent for May and I was expecting to receive $850 x 8%, which is $782 for May. However, I received $551 because the lawn care was subtracted plus a +$150 reserve for the city lawn care account. 

I have a PM for book keeping, collecting rent, and finding new tenants when there is a vacancy. I do not want my PM doing things that will cost me money or anything beyond the 8% fee. Another thing I don’t like is that the PM has the ability to change the leases. For example, my tenant is month to month and my PM has the authority to change it to one year with tenants approval. I had to specify to my PM that decisions like this can never be made without my approval.


I knew that my PM has this authority when I signed the agreement but I think I should have clarified from the start what I would not like my PM to do. My PM is a nice person and I think I just need to make my boundaries more clear. I basically have to manage my manager. 

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Michael A.:

It's your fault. You signed the agreement knowing you were giving them the authority, and now you are upset that they have the authority.

Did you plan to just let the grass grow forever? Are you the kind of Landlord that doesn't want to spend a dime on maintenance because you can't afford it and need to count every dime?

I suspect your PM is not going to enjoy working with you.

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  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    Property managers all have to be managed, they file evictions late, don't care if rent is late, delay crucial communications. It is the nature of the business. 

  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Aloha,

    Obviously every PM contract is different, but the time for questions and negotiating is before you sign. For example, our Management Agreement, and every one I have worked under for nearly 30 years, under "duties of agent", one of the first items is "to manage the property". It also specifically calls out financial accounting and reporting, advertising, showing, qualifying prospective tenants, and making required repairs. We do place a dollar limit on repairs, however we also will not have our hands tied over a routine issue. Of course we DO get Owner approval and signatures on repairs/upgrades that require a contract, and the Owner is free to use their own, and manage the job until complete and turned back over to us.

    I always contact Owners after inspecting a unit for renewal or at move out, to discuss repairs needed and terms to offer before specific discussions with Tenants. Sometimes Owners have decided to sell, and I want to be aware of that, as I do not want MY tenants (they rented through our company, and our company is named on the Rental Agreement) surprised with a sudden demand to allow showings to facilitate the sale. I always strive to be fair, and as honest as my position allows, to Owners AND Tenants AND Vendors.
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Michael A.:

    It's your fault. You signed the agreement knowing you were giving them the authority, and now you are upset that they have the authority.

    Did you plan to just let the grass grow forever? Are you the kind of Landlord that doesn't want to spend a dime on maintenance because you can't afford it and need to count every dime?

    I suspect your PM is not going to enjoy working with you.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Michael A., keep in mind you are asking for more customized service than this PM usually offers. So, you should expect to pay MORE for that!

    If you vetted this PM prior to signing with them and were comfortable with their approach and ability to manage the property successfully, then you would be comfortable accepting their actions.

    I don't see how the examples you gave disadvantaged you in any way. How would they have been different if you would have been consulted except that the PM has more work in having to deal with you at every step necessitating that they charge you MORE for that extra work?!?

  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Michael A.:

    It's your fault. You signed the agreement knowing you were giving them the authority, and now you are upset that they have the authority.

    Did you plan to just let the grass grow forever? Are you the kind of Landlord that doesn't want to spend a dime on maintenance because you can't afford it and need to count every dime?

    I suspect your PM is not going to enjoy working with you.


     Agreed

  • Member since 2023 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    3y

    Comes down to the agreement you signed. The positive is that you have a PM that is proactive to up keeping the property for you. Typically we ask lawn care questions when formulating a PMA. Reaching out to the PM company and having the discussion can honestly be an easy fix depending on the size of their business. 

  • Financial Advisor · Member since 2022 · 67 posts · 67 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Michael A.:

    It's your fault. You signed the agreement knowing you were giving them the authority, and now you are upset that they have the authority.

    Did you plan to just let the grass grow forever? Are you the kind of Landlord that doesn't want to spend a dime on maintenance because you can't afford it and need to count every dime?

    I suspect your PM is not going to enjoy working with you.

    Nathan: I agree with you that I signed the agreement and should have made my boundaries more clear. I have a great relationship with my PM and she enjoys working with me. The grass did not need maintenance as I have visited the property multiple times to verify before this event happened. 

    My issue is one of control not money. It’s not a matter of me affording it. I can easily afford it as I have sold over $10M in financial products and managed portfolios worth $5.1B in 2023 alone. I have no problem paying for maintenance on my property so long as I am the one making the decision. 

     Not only that, I have spent over $30k out of my own pocket for this duplex on maintenance, repairs, and renovations within the last 2 months. Things the previous landlord never bothered to fix, including a leaky 25 year old furnace, which i replaced with a new $6k furnace. My tenant told me she had never experienced a landlord who takes care of things like this. 

    So please, don’t judge me or my integrity when you do not know me. And don’t bunch me in with all the landlords who do not take care of business. I hope this clarified the assumptions you made. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Michael A.:
    I'm not assuming anything and you shouldn't be upset with me pointing out the obvious. Did you come for advice, or do you just want us to listen? You signed a PMA knowing they could spend money without your permission. The only person you should be upset with is yourself.

    If the PM can justify the mowing, then you'll have to accept it because that's wht you agreed to. From what I know of Ohio, you are in the season that requires regular mowing.

    If the grass doesn't need mowing, tell your PM to stop performing unnecessary maintenance or fire them for wasting your money.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • Financial Advisor · Member since 2022 · 67 posts · 67 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Michael A.:
    I'm not assuming anything and you shouldn't be upset with me pointing out the obvious. Did you come for advice, or do you just want us to listen? You signed a PMA knowing they could spend money without your permission. The only person you should be upset with is yourself.

    If the PM can justify the mowing, then you'll have to accept it because that's wht you agreed to. From what I know of Ohio, you are in the season that requires regular mowing.

    If the grass doesn't need mowing, tell your PM to stop performing unnecessary maintenance or fire them for wasting your money.

    Thank you for understanding. 
  • Real Estate Agent · Indianapolis IN · Member since 2022 · 144 posts · 65 votes
    3y

    You should be very happy that your pm co is keeping the grass mowed. The grass grows super quickly in this season in the Midwest. Even if it is cut every other week (typical timeframe here)--it will still get long in that short amount of time. The amount you were charged is fair.

    In Indiana you can get fined by the City if the grass is 12" long.  And it will easily be that long if you only cut it once a month.  Then they have their own City crew cut it for the violation and it ain't cheap!  It's typically over $300+ for one cut.

    Our pm team will always have a lawn crew cut the lawn on any 2 units and up.  You can't trust that each tenant in a duplex would cut their own grass in a timely fashion.  And it looks awful if one side is long.

    It's not going to be a good "marriage" if you micro-manage your pm for small things like this.  Just my 2 cents. :-)

  • Financial Advisor · Member since 2022 · 67 posts · 67 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Pam Brown:

    You should be very happy that your pm co is keeping the grass mowed. The grass grows super quickly in this season in the Midwest. Even if it is cut every other week (typical timeframe here)--it will still get long in that short amount of time. The amount you were charged is fair.

    In Indiana you can get fined by the City if the grass is 12" long.  And it will easily be that long if you only cut it once a month.  Then they have their own City crew cut it for the violation and it ain't cheap!  It's typically over $300+ for one cut.

    Our pm team will always have a lawn crew cut the lawn on any 2 units and up.  You can't trust that each tenant in a duplex would cut their own grass in a timely fashion.  And it looks awful if one side is long.

    It's not going to be a good "marriage" if you micro-manage your pm for small things like this.  Just my 2 cents. :-)

    Thanks for sharing that info with me. That makes sense. 
  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Yikes, we would never take you on as a client. If you want to micromanage then just do it yourself. A property manager is not your puppet. 

    If you're hurting on cash flow because of lawn care then sell the property. JMO. 

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