Chemar...........
I didnt bring up the salaries.......
This is an open forum.........which includes VENTING!!!
Trust me.......i would LOVE to finish my sentences with the ACTUAL word, but since i am a gentelman, i will refrain that type of English
We are still analyzing the overall financial circumstances of Pinnacle Development Partners. However, I am able to provide some information that may avoid further rumor and innuendo. All readers and participants on this blog should understand that there is a fair amount of inaccurate and incomplete information currently in circulation. While I appreciate the frustration and anger of investors, employees and other creditors, I encourage you to give us a little time to do our work. My goal is to provide a good financial overview within 45 days.
As indicated in my first post yesterday, Pinnacle’s bank accounts have been frozen. The total amount in those accounts is approximately $14 million. While there will be expenses and other liabilities that will have to be paid out of this money, we expect that the vast majority of this amount will be available for distribution. There are also 21 pieces of real estate in Atlanta area that we are analyzing.
We believe that there are approximately 2,000 investors, but this number could change. The amount of net loss (i.e., money in vs. money out) is being investigated.
The investor claim form has not yet been posted on our website, www.haysconsulting.net. We are experiencing technical difficulties with the website, but hope to get those problems corrected quickly. We have set December 31 as the deadline to file a claim, so there is immediate rush you you to complete the claim form.
It is important that investors understand that we will develop a plan for distributing money to investors and other creditors. Once developed, we will file it with the court. We will make a distribution only after it is approved by the court. In all likelihood, the plan will provide for a pro rata distribution based on each investor’s net loss. However, it is too early to be any more precise about a distribution.
I do not plan to make daily post to the blog to correct the rumors and erroneous information that is posted here. If there is significant news, it will be posted on my website and I will make blog entries that something new has been posted on the web site. Please note I expect to file a detailed report in about 45 days and that will address the financial condition and major issues in the case.
Sincerely,
S. Gregory Hays, Receiver
Thank you Receiver. Having a timeline and accurate information will help some of us sleep better at night. It would be great to be able to put this to bed by the end of the year...if possible.
It is important that investors understand that we will develop a plan for distributing money to investors and other creditors. Once developed, we will file it with the court. We will make a distribution only after it is approved by the court. In all likelihood, the plan will provide for a pro rata distribution based on each investor’s net loss. However, it is too early to be any more precise about a distribution.
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Greg,
Thanks so much for the update as it has helped clarify some of my concerns. If you have time to post again, I think an example of what exactly you mean by a pro-rate distribution based on each investor's net loss would be helpful to all on this site. Take me for example, I invested $100,000 in September and was told my money would be returned to me and within a week my advisor Carey McNeely called and said my funds have been accepted. My net loss is my full principal. Compare my case to an individual who has been invested with Pinnacle for a while and maybe has received 50% of what he invested in principal but was awaiting a total payment of $20,000. If he just got $10,000 back, he would in effect have 100% of his original principal paid back and no loss. If you could use my case and his as an example given 2,000 investors and lets say $10M in funds available to distribute to investors after expenses etc have been paid. What would each of our distributions be?
I think this will help calm us all as we await submission of your plan in 45 days. Given your response to above, I think everyone could apply it to their case to estimate what they may get back.
If you could also give us an idea of what the plan might be once the 21 properties being investigated is finalized and how that might benefit investors in recouping any balance of their loss in principal.
We do appreciate your patience in addressing our concerns in this very difficult time.
Thanks in advance
Scout,
I'm not ripping on you. I was referring to the comment you made about cars, not salaries. I am surprised to find out how much some of the consultants earned as well. I know this is everyones forum to vent on and I've done my share too. I just thought I would suggest to tone it down so you don't get booted off. I'd rather have you vent here, than to call or email me with your F-bombs! (Just pimping you man....you know you're my bud!)
It also won't matter when the loss occurred. If that $75K were invested back in Nov 2005 and always "rolled over," it will count the same as if it were invested the day before the fraud institute report came out.
This is my first post here. I just wanted to thank everyone for all the information that has been contributed. I lost everything I had in this. So did my Mother and Father (on my refferal). We really aren't taking this well since we weren't rich to begin with. I am a close friend of an ex-consultant who worked there. After he had been there a few months and seen that people were getting returns he told me about it. He seemed very positive and had no idea what was going on there. I did some research and decided to invest. My friends advice was to double my money, then withdraw the principle and let their money make money for me. I wish I had listened. I kept rolling it and rolling it, now it's all gone. I can say for a fact that the consultants had no knowledge of this. My friend was fired in February for having an opinion. He was replaced by Nick Rogge who I also believe had no knowledge. I hope we can get some of our hard earned money back and I hope that Gene experiences first hand what he has caused so many of us to feel.
When I stated the distribution will be based on a pro rata amount based on each investor’s net loss, that simply means we will calcuate how much each investor actually lost and make a percentage distribution. Any payment to an investor will be treated as a return of capital. If for example you invested $100,000 and received a $25,000 interest check, your net loss is $75,000. You will received a check for a percentage of this amount. It is simply too early to tell when and how much that will be.
My team and I have had a very difficult two days. We have made a great deal of progress and have $14 million in the bank and cut off most all of the payroll expense and are quickly getting out of lease commitments and terminating other accruing expenses.
The one thing that is running up the cost of this receivership is the constant phone calls, faxes, and emails to my offices. Please take notice that my staff and I need to be working on recoverying assets and shuting off expenses, and while we try to respond to investor calls, it is very difficult and takes away from the hard work at hand. Perhaps these posting on the blog will help and we will also keep our web site updated with any significant information.
Please everyone....let the Receiver do their work!!!
The clock is ticking.........let's not run up the receiver's expenses any more than we have to. We want to resolve this asap and try to keep most of the money in the acct. coming our way. If we bug them too much, it's increasing their expenses and diminishing our returns.
One question keeps playing over & over in my mind;
If no properties were really being remodeled, if no subdivisions were really being built, if no condos were really being converted... how in the heck was Pinnacle able to keep this charade going for so long without being exposed??
Some of you on this forum went down there yourself for the purpose of due diligence...weren't you interested in seeing the proof that REAL real estate activity (construction, marketing, escrow etc) was indeed taking place?
I wasn't able to get down there, but if I had I would've expected to find more of a real estate office type environment than what sounds like a Boiler Room complete with security guards! I would've expected to meet real estate agents and see newspaper marketing of the properties that were supposedly being sold left & right.
How could reps get away with saying properties were constantly being upgraded & resold for A YEAR if this wasn't really happening AT ALL!
I don't get it. You'd think SOMEBODY in Atlanta would have noticed that the real estate part of this was a total sham and would have spoken up!
did anyone stop and think, if pinnacle violated the law wouldn't you think they should fine pinnacle instead of going after investors money. i begin to wonder if this is an oppourtunity to make the big bucks for the receiver and his team. sadly, the one who is taking advantage of the investors is not pinnacle. i will say it again, we were paid on time. if pinnacle was not paying investors as it promised, i would agree. but in this case if good attorneys get involve, i strongly believe the panishment for pinnacle should be fine for violation. pinnacle delivered the promise to investors. if the receiver and the whole team care for what is happening to investors they should come up with the plan to pay something back soon so we don't have to lose our homes and everything we worked for, because people invested so much money. the rest of it to pay us back on a decent time frame. i wonder are they working for the best interest of the investors or for themselves? someone has to make something. unfortunately is not us. it is what they did to us, not what pinnacle did to us that angers me. if it was not for them we would have our money in the bank right now. i find it also very strange as pinnacle was moving to the consulting and closing their investment side of the business why they have to rush before investors received their money back to shut down operation.
angry investor
Im going to make this as short and brief as possible.
I am not going to tolerate anyone calling me and accusing me of being apart of the pinnacle scam. I am in no way shape form or fashion involved with Pinnacle and never was and never will be!!!!! I AM AN INVESTOR JUST LIKE MOST OF US HERE!!!! We are all in the same boat and paddling up the same river. My funds are frozen just like everyone else's!! So the next person that even remotely thinks about calling me so they can accuse me of partaking in this scam, here's my advice, DON'T MAKE THE CALL!! I cant believe that this person had the nerve to call me and ask me whats going on, then after I told them, they start accusing me of stealing their money!! None of us investors deserve this kind of treatment.
Ok, now that is off my chest I can move on.
I want to give a welcome to all the new members, especially investors, of this forum and thanks for coming. Please share this forum with other fellow investors so they can stay up to date on the latest changes and urgent news. :welcome:
I also want to encourage everyone to post their pinnacle story at the following link. The receiver stated that they are swapped with emails and calls, therefore, we can reduce their work load by posting our stories on the "Pinnacle Investor's Stories Told" thread. We need these stories so people can hear our voice and feel our emotions.
Here's the link to post your story:
http://forums.biggerpockets.com//viewtopic.php?p=15285#15285
Email me at [email protected] if you have questions about why we set up this new thread for our stories.
:D
Good job rdc! Everyone needs to stick together now! Like 911 we all have to stick together and help one another. (sorry I'm a yankee)
:superman:
With all due respect, this is OUR HARD EARNED money that we rely on for living expenses (mortgage and food). It's only human nature for people to call your office to find out when we will get our money back. I personally took out a line of credit to invest. And my 80 year old mother mortgaged her house to invest, just three weeks ago. She gets only $654 a month in social security and now has no way to pay this morgage that was initiated to give her a more comfortable living in her final years of life. We are reading that you're going to take you fees out of OUR MONEY. Take your fees from O'Neil's assets, The investors shouldn't have to pay these expenses. Think how you would feel if it was your 80 year old mother or grandmother in this situation. My mother cannot afford to wait many months
I think the intermal bikkering is comical :roll: . Investors vs. ex-employees vs. Hays consulting... Gene & Robert stuck it all of us the same. Hays didn't ask to be here, they were "Hired"
The money is gone for now, "It is what it is"
In the mean time I have Gene o'neal tied up in my basement forced to watch Cops over & over again :superman: and Robert tied to a chair in my closet with a Junior's cheese cake dangling in front of him :protest:
Ease up. it will come to an end eventually... Hell, I can't pay for any lovin for at least six months :goofy: .... LOL
what do you guys think: Pinnacle was closing all the accounts and paying everybody on time before all this started, they indicated that they are ending current program and intended to switch to "consulting model". There was no secret. It appears that they had enough funds to make their last payments to all investors and switch to different program, otherwise they would stop paying long before that. Receiver claims $14M was recovered, can that be verified?, I have a feeling that if SEC would step in a month later all of us would have gotten all our money back, and may be made some returns. Now we have Receiver with his crew that needs to be paid, he clearly indicated it will take more than few months to research, and it looks like Receiver will drag this thing for his and his team financial benefit. Also all bunch of attorneys that see ceased assets will be there to milk what's left of the company. Us, investors will be the last in line for the pie leftovers which actually should’ve gone to us in the first place. Maybe I am wrong, but again, I have a feeling that Pinnacle had enough funds for it’s final distribution to it’s investors. When all the attorneys and receivers see bunch of assets they just go crazy each trying to get a bigger slice. Just my opinion.
Aster,
Whether Pinnacle was paying on time or not is not the issue. If this was a Ponzi scheme and it is looking more and more like it was, then the funds were going to dry up. You can't keep taking new investor's money to pay old investors forever. At some point the house of cards will fall and fall it has. One negative story comes out and all of a sudden the company goes into a stalling tactic which if Pinnacle was truly a legit company then it would have been business as usual and this would have all blown over. IMO the SEC may well have kept more of our funds out of Gene's pocket. I do agree that the publisher's of WSJ, Newsweek, Barrons, etc. are partly to blame for allowing Pinnacle's ads to run without some investigation. I could advertise tomorrow that I will pay you 50% returns every month but someone should look at this as an ad better suited for the National Inquirer. We have no choice now but to let the receiver do his job and hope we can recover as much as we can. There is also tax relief under the IRS code 165, so all is not necessarily lost. Just my 2 cents.
tb-investor
i totally agree with you. I believe that the REceiver & atty's will milk this for all they can. I think if they can legally get paid from OUR MONEY then they should be set up with a flat fee. THen they wouldn't be so inclined to drag their feet.
People,
All the negative words to and about the receiver is not going to help matters. You are attacking their crediblity and their ethics and we don't even know them. We gave tons of money to an alleged crook and didn't bat an eye. Now we have this team that has been assigned to make heads or tails of this mess and we are on them like white on rice!!!!!!! Come on and let the process work itself out or we risk alienating them. Give them some leeway here. If Gene is as ingenious as we now seem to think he is, he probably has squirreled away our monies in offshore accounts, Indian reservation banks and Nevada corporations, to name a few. It is not going to be a simple matter to resolve. Patience!!!!!!
Does anyone know of any other message boards where pinnacle investors are posting like we are. If so, I do believe it would help to gather their information as well. Maybe we could try to get there info over to Al and the others who are working to put together how many real investors might make a claim.