Everyone should check with their tax advisor, but since this looks like it won't be wrapped up in 2006 (claim file date of 12/31/06 an indicator) we might have to wait until 2007 returns to recognize theft loss on Fed taxes.
Instructions on Form 4684 (Casualties and Thefts):
"If you are not sure whether part of your casualty or theft loss will be reimbursed, do not deduct that part until the tax year when you become reasonably certain that it will not be reimbursed."
someone had mentioned in a previous post about filing a greivance with the GA bar against Pinnacle's attorney Chris Kunkel.. has anyone done this?
We all have those reference letters from him about how he supports Pinnacles business model..
someone/we should file the greivance.. include a copy of that letter, the sec case filed against pinnacle, & the fact that 2000 investors are involved in 33 state, etc... & many of us relied on his proffesional opinion to make the decision to invest, at least I did.. guys not stupid.. hes a lawyer, he had to know.. HE SHOULD BE LIABLE!!!
Also... can anyone do a search to see what kinda real estate this guy owns??
Receiver,
My son has 2 accts. with Pinn. One was opened with a cashiers check. The other acct. I sent a personal check out of my bank acct. on my sons behalf. I have a copy of my bank check but it will have to be used as proof for my sons second acct. In the memo section it does say my sons name, and of course the check is made out to Pinn. Is that going to be a problem as far as my son showing proof of money invested? I'm sure alot of people invested money on behalf of someone else, but the second person actually is the one with the Pinn. account.
I AGREE WITH YOU. WE WOULD NOT BE IN THIS MESS. IF THE GUY WAS CAPABLE TO PAY RETURNS I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY SAY WE MIGHT GET THE% OF OUR PRINCIPALS. LIKE YOU SAID THEY ARE GETTING "THE BIGGER SLICE". I BELIEVE THEY SHOULD SIT DOWN AND DO THE MATH AND DISTRIBUTE THE PRINCIPALS TO INVESTORS. WHAT EVER THE COMPANY LEFT WITH THEY SHOULD GET PAID WITH. THEY ARE THE BIGGER GUYS, THEY HAVE THE TOOLS ABOUT HOW TO GO AFTER O'NEAL, THE ATTORNEY AND ETC.. PEOPLE ARE LOSING A LOT AND THEY MAY NOT RECOVER FROM THIS. LIFE, FAMILY AND HOMES ARE DESTROYED. INVESTORS DID NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR RETURNS AND THEIR MONEY. WE GOT PAID ON TIME AND ASKED IF WE WANT TO CLOSE THE ACCT, ROLL OVER OR RECEIVE RETURNS ONLY. THEY ARE THE ONE WHO IS COMPLAINING. THEY ARE THE ONE WHO PLACED US IN THIS MESS, SLEEPLESS NIGHTS. I HOPE THEY HAVE THE HEART AND COMPASSION TO THE PEOPLE AND DO WHAT IS FAIR. IF THEY CLAIM PINNACLE WAS UNFAIR TO THE INVESTORS, WE WANT TO SEE THE FAIRNESS WE GET FROM SEC AND ALL THE CREWS.
I agree with you aster,
I had 3 checks coming this month totaling over $100,000. That could have made a huge difference in my life! Now if I'm lucky SOMEDAY, I might get 1/10th of that. It just doesn't seem fair at all. Why couldn't the SEC wait until Pinn. opened up the consulting side after all the investors had been paid back? People were getting their checks just hours before the SEC stepped in!
We'll never know what O'neal's intentions were. If he was involved in business other than using our money to pay himself and his crew, there might have been enough money to distribute to investors, however in hind sight, what business pays a return on capital of 150% a year? 25%/2 month x 6. At this point we'll never know what migth have happenned if SEC had not stepped in, but I suspect a lot or most of us would still have ended up holding the bag.
It's true, we may never know what could have happened but we're all adults and we took the initial risk to begin with. If Pinn. bailed on us, would we be in that much of a different situation than we are now? At least it would have been nice to be able to make our own decision to "let it ride to the bitter end" and see what happens. It's kind of like social security. Us Americans are way too stupid and irresponsible according the the Feds. to save money so we're forced to contribute to Social Security and have no idea if it will be available to us at retirement age. According to the Feds. they're "protecting us from ourselves" WHATEVER!!!!! I should watch out, there may be some guys in dark suits and sunglasses knocking on my door soon.....YIKES!
In reference to Taxums post:
"It is imperative that we start the process of investigation on this guy as well. There is no way that he does not have knowledge of what went on.
Further more from day one, he claims to have been Pinn's closing counsel, and the law firm that drafted the partnership agreements for all said closings. "
Thanks for bringing it up again,
I was the one that mentioned the grievance against the attorney.
I am pretty sure that grievances must be filed individually in nature. The GA bar is on the Net. Do a google search. I have it if you want it. Further more, if he tries to move his assets at this point it is considered a fraudulent transfer - it is already happening.
Every US Attorney is required to have ommissions and errors insurance.
If he has done nothing wrong, then he don't have to worry. If he has then being disbarred is the least of his concerns.
WOW, I have been counting all the money that was lost here. We could have developed a nice pieace of land in Atlanta and done really really well.
LEGALLY. :shock:
Post deleted. Sorry if I irritated some of you. I'll keep my opinions to myself.
i agree with you chmar22
i still don't understand for SEC to step in just before investors were about to get paid. if they claiming to protect future investors there will be no future investor. pinnacle was closing the investment side. so lets be real and stop blaming pinnacle.
When this is all over, why dont we all get together and sue the SEC for our losses and then some, since they will be ultimitly responsible for our assets being dried up by the lawyers, since they started this whole fiasco. (Pardon my spelling)
Vince
I think some people on here are over reacting a bit too much about the SEC stepping in. For those who have forgotten, let me remind you:
PINNACLE IS A SCAM!!!!!! Oneal WAS STEALING OUR MONEY!!!!
How can some of you actually trust that you were 100% going to get all your money back from them???? Why would Oneal have cleared his office out if he was doing nothing wrong??? Are some of you actually that gullible?
Stop complaining about the receiver and his end of this. The court appointed his firm to handle this. He has to get paid for his services. Would you rather have the courts and gov't officials trying to sort this out and get our money back? I believe the receiver is the better option. I hope he makes the people calling him a crook have to fill tons of additional paperwork.
I'm not complaining about the receiver. He's just doing what he got hired to do. You've read my opinion about the rest of it.
I know many are "blaming" the SEC/gov't etc.. for shutting down Pinnacle while they were "processing" our returns but the reality is in about 45 days or so there will be only one of 2 possible outcomes:
1. there is enough money to pay back ALL investors
2. there is NOT enough money to pay back ALL investors
Now, if its #1 then yeah, SEC shut them down prematurely & we would have all gotten our $$ back within the next 2 months or so.
If its #2 then Im sure many investors would have gotten paid in the beginning (all of us due sept & early october) but then all the people on the tail end (the ones who invested last) would have been screwed. And even if you were one of the people to get paid you may have still been liable to the ones left empty handed.
Seems to me based on what assets they appear to have that its going to be #2. I would love to be wrong!! We just have to let the rec'r do his job & wait for the figures. In the meantime I dont think we should be so hard on the SEC for moving in.. it appears Pinnacle does not have all the $$ which further justifies their actions.
I agree with Taxum.
I feel that all those post from angry investors about how they would have gotten paid if the SEC waited are ridiculous. OK, I understand some are emotional and I don't mean to offend those investors but please consider the macro, bigger picture view and stop thinking about yourself.
Like Taxum said, either they have enough to pay investors out or they don't.
So...let's say they really do have enough money to have paid out all the investors in the next 2 months before they launched their consulting business. Congratulations. If SEC and Haysconsulting do their jobs properly, then that money should still be there to pay out the investors.
If they don't have the money. Then even if the SEC waited two months, the investors on the tailend would have been screwed majorly. Why? Because they DON'T have the money to pay.
So right now you are in the best possible situation given the circumstances. Stop complaining that the Good guys [SEC] moved in. In both scenarios of whether they have the money or not, you have to decide if you want the Bad guys [Pinnacle, Gene] or the Good guys deciding how to pay out. Granted the Good guys get paid from the investors money, but the amount they get paid is a tiny slice of a huge pie, and ultimately they are trying to do it in a much more equitable fashion.
i don't think we trying to blame the receiver or the sec. we are just devastated for what happened to us. may be at the end of all this we may appreciate them. i understand they have a difficcult job to do and i pray god will guide them to the right direction and we will get our money back.
I feel that all those post from angry investors about how they would have gotten paid if the SEC waited are ridiculous. OK, I understand some are emotional and I don't mean to offend those investors but please consider the macro, bigger picture view and stop thinking about yourself.
Like Taxum said, either they have enough to pay investors out or they don't.
So...let's say they really do have enough money to have paid out all the investors in the next 2 months before they launched their consulting business. Congratulations. If SEC and Haysconsulting do their jobs properly, then that money should still be there to pay out the investors.
If they don't have the money. Then even if the SEC waited two months, the investors on the tailend would have been screwed majorly. Why? Because they DON'T have the money to pay.
So right now you are in the best possible situation given the circumstances. Stop complaining that the Good guys [SEC] moved in. In both scenarios of whether they have the money or not, you have to decide if you want the Bad guys [Pinnacle, Gene] or the Good guys deciding how to pay out. Granted the Good guys get paid from the investors money, but the amount they get paid is a tiny slice of a huge pie, and ultimately they are trying to do it in a much more equitable fashion.
The receiver will com through for us as he is doing his best. Pinnacle was not a legitimate company and eventually this was going to happen. Making money off stolen money is immoral to lifes values and we should recongnize that. Are we or you happy in being in business with a crook, who sole intention is to take all your monies and run sometime down the road. Who knows maybe his goal was to get everyone at $500,000 before he split.
Let's just hope and look forward us getting back our principal investment.
As for the Receiver please continue working hard on our behalf and bring what was lost to us. Don't take personally these comments as some have lost alot.
You can do it!
Neal Hope.............the point you are missing is that IF THERE was $ money to pay out EVERYONE......it could have been done with the SEC working side by side with Pinnacle.
Let Pinnacle pay out OR a "dry" payout.........and then determine if any violations were done and act accordingly. Then maybe freeze assets as well.
Now, assuming Hays is going to take 10% / 1.3 million, that is 1.3 million less to return.
YES, they were probaly doing things illegally. But maybe, MAYBE, the SEC went in and froze too early. They should have put Gene in the corner first, and made him prove his "business" ...........right or wrong.
Dont get me wrong....i am FU_KING pissed......but even if we get all our principle back ( hopefully) ....it could have been doing something else somewhere else.......ANOTHER LOSS TO CONSIDER
Dear Investors:
Thank you for your efforts to provide the Receiver’s team information on bank accounts utilized by Pinnacle. However, PLEASE DO NOT post bank account and routing information on this public forum.
Please email this information to Linda Baldwin at [email protected] so that we may immediately identify any accounts where investor funds were deposited or paid.
If you have posted any bank account information previously, please delete that information from your prior post and send it in an email Ms. Baldwin or in a private message (PM) to Value Adder.
S. Gregory Hays, Receiver
Assuming there are 2000 investors......again, hard to believe, NET LOSS is going to be the order of return.
But how many people broke even and / or made money?
These investors had no loss and will not be receiving returns. I would be will to bet at least 33% would be in this category.
Keep in mind, it only takes a few months to 'break " even.
Consider the possible scenerio if SEC had not stepped in
- Gene has bulk of the money tucked away somwhere which he would have used to pay up all his inevstors. He promised till last day that there is enough money to pay not only principal but last return as well
- Gene was planning to go agressive in his consulting business and had lined up over 200 seriously intersted investors - he would have used that proceeds to make good on his promise to pay up all investors to last penny. He has to make a clean break from pinnacle development in order to sucessfully launch consulting business
- it is possible that he would have rolled over some of the big investors into consulting project in lieu of paying up their principal. Consulting was a legitimate way of doing real estate business putting investors eventually in charge of operations.
- It is possible that he would have asked group of investors located in specific city or belonging to family to form a group subscribing to consulting concept in lieu of repayment of their principal. In a nut-shell, gene would have found ways to keep all investors compensated if he ran out of funds to payup or his consulting project would have been DOA.
Consider the probable scenerio due to SEC intervention
- Gene knows (his legal team must have advised him what lies ahead) his scheme can not stand SEC violations and he knows funds will be frozen by SEC - so what is he supposed to do but save as much as he can and hide
- Gene might have anticipated SEC moves and may have money hidden in unreachable places - so now investors have no access to such funds. Suddenly, there is not enough money to pay even principal amount in frozen accounts
- Gene has ample time to destory most of the money trail and key records. Why would he not do it? He does not have any incentive to keep his promises to investors now that law-agencies have taken over
- Even if Gene is eventually punished by laws, he may be sitting on millions and laughing at everybody after he gets out
Notwithstanding what receiver said here, read his covering letter in the claim form - it makes no bones about this process being expensive and long-drawn. Now we are told that investors will get only % of loss-portion of their original capital and not full capital because there won't enough funds after gene, sec and receiver are done with their take and assets in distressed circumstances can't fetch even maket values. Allegations of ponzi scheme has created a self-fulfilling prophey in which everybody would win except investors.