Real life syndication feedback? From investors and syndicators

Real life syndication feedback? From investors and syndicators

Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 14 votes

I think it would help everyone curious about syndications if we shared how syndication investing has really been like for those with experience. 

Have your investments met projected returns? What have you been happy or unhappy with? What have you noticed that syndicators were doing well or poorly on? Also sharing if you're a syndicator yourself and what that journey's been like, especially for newer syndicators -- what were some surprises good or bad that you've experienced during your first couple deals? How would you have done things differently?

I personally have invested in a couple syndications in the last 3 years and none have been completed yet. Things I value more now is communication and transparency. I have investments that send on-time quarterly reports with documents like rent rolls, expense reports, detailed explanations of whether we are in line with initial projections or not and if things have been improving or not and why. I do think a clearer visual on these metrics would be great and clear number comparisons, as otherwise I have to do calculations myself and go back to pull up the initial offering memorandum to compare numbers. As an investor, the numbers seem to be the easiest way for me to check if things are going well although I understand the bigger picture is more complex than that. I have one investment that sends very sparse updates with not very specific details on things like numbers but rather more generalized descriptions about how things are going. I happen to know someone on the operating team more personally, so would hear more detailed updates if I reached out, and felt that these details would be appreciated by investors if they shared them more frequently. I imagine that when details are not shared, operators may feel it's tedious or unnecessary to share with investors or they're not confident with what is going on? I'd love to hear how syndicators decide what to share and what not to share and how much details investors would like to know. 

5Reply
185 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 85 votes
5y

@Monica C. I have invested in a couple of dozen syndications with about 10 sponsors across a variety of asset classes in different areas of the country. I found most of them through real estate podcasts. If I like what I hear, I will go to their website to schedule a call to interview them to see if our investing philosophies align. There are several sponsor questionnaires available online. Always ask for their track record of full-cycle deals. I also ask if they can reduce their minimum on my first investment with them. If I have gotten to know, like, and trust them, I will get onto their deal list and vet their offerings. Ultimately, I would like to invest in more deals with a smaller number of sponsors as I see how their deals (that I have invested in) perform. Good communication before, during, and after a deal has gone full cycle is important to me as well.

Some of the podcasts that I have found to be helpful in finding syndicators include The Real Estate Guys Radio Show, The Passive Wealth Strategy Show, Passive Investing From Left Field, and The Cash Flow Connections Real Estate Podcast.
 

See this reply in the discussion

21 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 184 posts · 223 votes
    5y

    @Monica C.

    I've invested in a little more than 10 separate syndications with about as many different leads.

    The one thing I appreciate the most is those asset manager who are willing to send out monthly charts of actual vs pro-forma income and expenses.

    That's not to say that they are always within budget, because they usually aren't, but they at least show a level of honesty and accountability as well as showing progress.

    I'm invested in some deals that publish very few KPIs if any at all. One of them has never once made the pref in almost 5 years, yet in every quarterly update they are singing their own praises about how well everything is going. Hmmm. :)

    Likewise, on exit, I like to see the achieved cashflow and IRR. On one deal, the exit summary just read something like: "I think everything went pretty good, so I consider this a success!"

    That's a lot of homework left to the individual investors. :)

    Hope that helps

    James

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @James Kojo Thanks for the reply James! Wow you've invested in quite a few! 

    May I ask how you found so many leads? Was it just through word of mouth/networking? 

    The monthly charts comparing actual vs pro-forma sounds awesome, I would really appreciate those too. Even being out of budget, that transparency is really valuable and not leaving investors in the dark! 

    I haven't experienced an exit yet so have always wondered if they'll actually reach the projected IRRs or if in general they fall short. For the most part, have your investments overall hit the projected numbers? 

    Thanks for sharing! 

  • Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 41 posts · 53 votes
    5y

    I have invested into 17 syndications to date, all within the last 21 months. So far I have 3 deals go full cycle. 

    The 3 deals were held for 13.5, 18 and 20 months with respective IRRs of 44%, 47% and 71%. 

    The two shorter deals did not hit the pref, but it was noted in the offering memorandum that the cash flow would be lighter in years one and two, but catch up later in the deal pending the deal taking the full 5 years. The 20 month deal did hit the pref throughout the entire period.

  • Fort Myers Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 225 posts · 124 votes
    5y

    I have built a simple tracker to look at my Syndication Investments, I'm sharing with the spirit of learning and have masked out the Sponsors names. 

    Lesson Learned  - One thing that never gets reported directly it seems like is CoC return vs. projections. (if you study the financials you can try to pull that out)

    Lesson Learned - The sponsor holding period if too long after initial funding (wire) can really skew Year 1 returns as you can see in my chart. The time I release money its stop earning interest from the previous source until the first distribution of course. I have one sponsor who waited 6 months before first distribution to "season" the property. To be honest that seems like an excuse given they should have a NOI in the first month or two to start the distribution to projection.

    Lesson Learned - Use Google maps to track your investments visually like some of the sponsor do, it really helps when having new discussions.

  • Beaverton Oregon · Member since 2020 · 51 posts · 37 votes
    5y

    @Monica C. The biggest problem I see with syndication deals is that you have to put $50K + per deal. If you were investing in the stock market would you put $50K in one stock or 10 different stocks at $5000 each. Customizable funds provide the best of syndication deals and funds where you can pick individual deals within the wrapper of a fund. While you do pay a fund management fee the diversification provided by the fund more than offsets the minimal cost. This also allows you refine your skills in evaluating an individual syndication deal. 

  • Investor · Member since 2019 · 74 posts · 70 votes
    5y

    @Peter Schuyler

    Was there anything unusual happening with your SFH investment? or did you purchase them for appreciation to being with?

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @Sam Silverman Wow you've been super active the last 2 years! We also do note to investors that cash flow will most likely be lighter in year 1-2 as we stabilize with renovations and raising rents to market price. 

    How were you able to connect on so many syndications? Just word of mouth? I'm curious as to how one finds reputable syndicators. 

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @Peter Schuyler Thanks so much for sharing Peter! I love the tracker and thanks for sharing your process. Yes, I wish the operators just told investors things like CoC return vs. projections because we calculate it anyway but it just creates more work for us. Also, that's a great point about the holding period. Hopefully the projects have budgeted to produce some sort of distributions from the start but I do understand sometimes it takes time before they have can, although if their projections were done right then it should be in line.

    Thanks for all the details! 

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @Badri Malynur Thanks for your insight Badri! Yes the high entry point for syndications is not only a barrier for those with less capital but also a big chunk to put in one egg. That psychologically can be a big barrier for an investor who's used to diversifying and spreading risk -- I definitely would not do that in the stock market! I guess that's why one has to really trust the operators to feel comfortable in syndication investments. 

    Have you been investing in these customizable funds? Do you mean like on REIT/crowdfunding sites or are these funds something different? I was told that offerings that we see on sites like fundrise may be inexperienced or not the best syndicators that may prey on inexperienced investors who don't have the ability to participate in syndications because of a lack of substantial capital and that capable syndication operators would not resort to posting on sites like that because they have a group of investors that trust them and they don't have to share a fee to the site. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y

    There are tons of syndication opportunities in the market place.

    Check out @Ian Ippolito's site or 506investorgroup for lots of information on syndications.

    I spend more time analyzing new opportunities than analyzing prior investments (the horse has already left the barn on those).

  • Fort Myers Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 225 posts · 124 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Daniel Han:

    @Peter Schuyler

    Was there anything unusual happening with your SFH investment? or did you purchase them for appreciation to being with?

    Nothing unusual per see, but I need to unwrap my thinking that a syndication will produce any meaningful return in Year 1 and possibly two, and your trust is in the payoff either through refi or sale down the road.  Some syndications offered a fixed pref in exchange for a equity bump, which basically raised you up in the stack for payment, the bank, or major lender is usually number 1 in distributions since they hold most of the equity of course.  Being a "bank" usually payoff in the long run, the best returns I still have gotten in on Mortgage notes (assuming they goes well) 

  • Fort Myers Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 225 posts · 124 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Badri Malynur:

    @Monica C. The biggest problem I see with syndication deals is that you have to put $50K + per deal. If you were investing in the stock market would you put $50K in one stock or 10 different stocks at $5000 each. Customizable funds provide the best of syndication deals and funds where you can pick individual deals within the wrapper of a fund. While you do pay a fund management fee the diversification provided by the fund more than offsets the minimal cost. This also allows you refine your skills in evaluating an individual syndication deal. Happy to talk more if you want to connect. 

    One thing I like about syndications is my $50K contribution does not carry direct closing costs, and fees, yes the property does, but the scale for me wipes that out. Also assuming my $50K, say is one unit out of 100 units, in theory my "unit" can be vacant for the term of the project (5 years) and I still receive CoC and an equity bump at the end.

    A stock that goes to zero over a five year period for dividends and a sale at the end at zero would hurt me for sure. 

    Yes diversification in smaller chunks across a deal works well, a few syndicators I'm working with a doing 5-10 asset funds with is basic diversification and helps them raise capital for an a quick purchase which makes my overall contribution in the fund even better.  

    These instruments are not perfect, none of there real estate I ever have invested has been perfect, but my stock portfolio is up and down like a whack a mole party.  Tired of that

  • Paul MoorePro Member
    Commercial Real Estate Fund Manager · Lynchburg, VA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Hi @Monica C. and all.  Great post and replies. As an investor in syndications and a fund manager, I can see both sides of some of these issues. One thing that stands out is the issue of hitting the preferred return on a periodic basis. Unfortunately, the preferred return can be a misnomer. In my mind, it is simply a hurdle rate. As an investor in someone’s syndication, I know that I will get 100% of the distributable cash flow up that that level.  Above that Pref level, I know the syndicator and I will have a split on the cash flow. So when viewed this way, I’m not disappointed when the Pref is not hit. 

    Here’s an example: I invested in a self-storage deal that’s made very few payouts as it ramped up to stabilized occupancy. The Pref (hurdle rate) is always constant at 8%. This means I’m accruing 8% times the number of years that will flow to me - with no split - once more cash is available (through operations, refinance, or sale or all of above).  So I’m not disappointed at all and don’t view the operator as falling short of the Pref.  

    The real issue is how is the investment performing compared to projections.  If the operator planned 12% annual cash payout and hit 10%, though exceeding the 8% preferred hurdle, they are falling short. If that same operator projected a lower payout (say 8%) but a higher Pref (say 12%), their performance would be applauded (yet below the Pref) at 10%.  I hope that all makes sense. 

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 85 votes
    5y

    @Monica C. I have invested in a couple of dozen syndications with about 10 sponsors across a variety of asset classes in different areas of the country. I found most of them through real estate podcasts. If I like what I hear, I will go to their website to schedule a call to interview them to see if our investing philosophies align. There are several sponsor questionnaires available online. Always ask for their track record of full-cycle deals. I also ask if they can reduce their minimum on my first investment with them. If I have gotten to know, like, and trust them, I will get onto their deal list and vet their offerings. Ultimately, I would like to invest in more deals with a smaller number of sponsors as I see how their deals (that I have invested in) perform. Good communication before, during, and after a deal has gone full cycle is important to me as well.

    Some of the podcasts that I have found to be helpful in finding syndicators include The Real Estate Guys Radio Show, The Passive Wealth Strategy Show, Passive Investing From Left Field, and The Cash Flow Connections Real Estate Podcast.
     

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @Mike Dymski Great, thanks for sharing that! 506investorgroup seems like a great resource and I'll be looking to connect with Ian as well. 

  • Jim PfeiferBusiness Member
    Investor · Dublin, OH · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 495 votes
    5y

    I have invested in over 40 syndications in the past few years - the most important thing to me when analyzing a sponsor is communication.  If the sponsor does not give you quality and timely responses before you wire your money, how do you think you will be treated after you send the money?  The deals that are the most frustrating to me are the early ones I invested in without properly screening the sponsor - those deals are not paying out as projected and I rarely get updates on how the asset is performing.

    A downside of syndications is definitely the minimum - but there are ways around that.  You can join a Community (Left Field Investors is the one I started, so I am biased for sure!) that might be offered lower than standard minimums or you can invest with a group - Tribevest provides a really easy way to do that.  I am in five different tribes and we invest together which effectively lowers the minimum to get into a deal.  That allows me to diversify by sponsor, asset class and market.

  • Investor · Batavia, IL · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 81 votes
    5y

    There is a lot of great information here that points to how positive it can be to join a syndication as an LP. Are you aware that you can find great syndication opportunities with a broker-dealer group rather than vet each syndicator? You can evaluate options in different geographies with different syndicators. When Syndicators use a BD team, there is no additional cost to the investor. You participate at the same rate as if you go directly to the syndicator. The BD team can provide research for upcoming projects.

  • Member since 2022 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    3y

    Where would we find the 506 investor group that is mentioned?

  • Member since 2023 · 72 posts · 44 votes
    2y

    @Monica C.

    Out of curiosity, what has your experience been investing in syndications so far? I know that the landscape has changed quite a lot and I wonder if you have any perspective on how to find good syndications opportunities and which ones to avoid. Thanks a lot for any insights!

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.