Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I don't care whether you vote for this thread or not, but please give input. I've now been scammed by 2 members of BP, and know of others that have also been scammed. I've also received some suggestions from Vikram, Tim W and others about starting a "Hall of Shame" or at least a forum where we may air our shaftings and warn others of those jerks, before they become repeat offenders. The jerks would be free to dispute the Facts presented, or hopefully disappear into the night. It might help some BP members avoid losing money they can't afford to lose.
I've had several PMs from others about this same subject. We need to police our own. Please reply in some fashion to let your interest in this be known. Thanks. Rich.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
Instead of publicly stating bad experiences with another member ( which is subject to abuse), we can have a link in the profile where we can list all the other BP members that we have done business with.
Any BP member who wishes to do business with an unknown member can then check to see who all that person has done business with in the past and send a PM request for experience / recommendation and then decide how to proceed.
This will allow us to keep tabs on people without violating anyone's privacy rights or subjecting someone to potential defamation or revenge.
Real Estate Investor · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 547 posts · 214 votes
16y
I would love to have a post where we could discuss this problems, and the way it was done/why you believed them, obviously if theyre scamming the very experienced, they know what they are doing. I would like to prevent myself from ever being scammed and would like to know what to look for. I'm already paranoid with every deal I see..
Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 903 votes
16y
I think it's a great idea, but I would worry about the liability the site may incur do to its involvement since in essence you could get hit with a libel claim airing dirty laundry in public. My suggestion would be to convene a panel of members to decide based on the facts presented from both sides. Hopefully, we could keep it from turning into a kangaroo court.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
16y
Rich, good idea, bad idea? I agree it would be great if there was a hall of shame!
But I don't think it's that easy. Getting into disputes and posting specifics of a deal messed up, or a possible sham, could be taking on a liability. I'm sure Josh would be immune, but the party exposing someone might not be, especially if they don't watch what they say. I know some folks get carried away real quick and sy things that are pretty stupid, putting out things to the whole world and sometimes things they can't prove. Then, you make that other person slither off in the night, they have been slandered to a point of losing business, so the is a financial loss and they get an attorney.
When someone talks about someone, they need to watch what they say in the court of public opinion.
Now, if the scammer was caught and convicted of something, that's an open field day on them, reporting the facts of that case.
I think some people will feel screwed over and the other might feel as if that was the deal, just misunderstandings, are we to sort that out? How will popularity effect the outcome, as everyone will not be unbiased, IMO.
I think this is best left to private communications as is probably done now, without the public forum.
OTH, I'd sure like to know who is screwing others or scamming people, don't know that it's something we need to or can police, convict, pass judgment and execute !/? Bill
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
16y
Rich,
As I had mentioned in PM with you and with TC, the way I would believe it best handled is to have a thread where you can post that you are aware of a BP member who has behaved in ______ (some disgraceful manner); send PM with subject line "more info on BP deadbeat, please" to obtain info.
This removes any public flogging, and also removes the "explanations" (read: excuses) that would be posted in reply to any direct airing of such matters.
You can see in my sig that I have info on such a BP member (I did not get ripped off, but many lenders did by this member), and that I will share via PM. But I also have already pointed out that I refuse to accept colleague requests (from "followers") where there is no introductory statement; to me that is like the people who pass out cards at the REIA meetings and disappear before saying even one word.
I guess I would say that I prefer to treat these things the way that I would like to myself be treated.
Real Estate Investor · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 547 posts · 214 votes
16y
I don't really know what liability the site would incur, these people obviously have scammed someone, and its not like a no post count person discussing it, I think they should be blasted so everyone can become aware,.
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
16y
I'm very willing to take the legal consequence for anything I might say about a member I had business with, here on BP or in a Court of Law. Rich
p.s. Thanks for the quick replies.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
16y
Rich,
I truly believe you would be willing to deal with those repercussions.
But I'd bet many others are not as resource strong, and would be much less willing to deal with such.
Also, the example I have does not get covered - I have not been wronged by the BP member mentioned above but I am aware of the wrongdoings. And in such a situation, being targeted for revenge is a strong possibility (what would a deadbeat have to lose?).
Real Estate Consultant · yucaipa, CA · Member since 2008 · 233 posts · 109 votes
16y
Rich,
I think that's a great idea. I haven't been scammed, but I am concerned about what BP is turning into, which is why I don't participate or give advice very much anymore. Unfortunately, the scammers will always be around no matter what.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
Instead of publicly stating bad experiences with another member ( which is subject to abuse), we can have a link in the profile where we can list all the other BP members that we have done business with.
Any BP member who wishes to do business with an unknown member can then check to see who all that person has done business with in the past and send a PM request for experience / recommendation and then decide how to proceed.
This will allow us to keep tabs on people without violating anyone's privacy rights or subjecting someone to potential defamation or revenge.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
16y
The good about having this in one thread: all the deadbeats could be readily found.
The not so good about it being in one thread: the thread could get really large and unusable (recall the thread for "promote your buyer's list" that used to be, but ended up getting locked); depends on how many deadbeats BP has, and how many people actually want to do something to cause the bad behavior to stop.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
16y
Gotta say I like Vikram's positive spin, guilt by elimination! But then, I don't do business with anyone on BP, or any other site for that matter. LOL!
Rich, you or I and a few others here could tactfully explain a situation without getting in trouble I'm sure. Anyone stating true facts won't get in any trouble either, it's when someone that is less "sophisticated" starts ranting and raving because they have a forum to do so, is who will likely find trouble from some scammer types.
OTH, if I smell a scammer or something sidewys, I say something and try to expose it without doing so in an actionable manner.
If someone has been screwed by a member, what's the deal....without names? So long as you don't mention the name and it is rather vague, would there be a problem with that...as a heads up?
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
16y
I don't have a lot of experience with the site, but I have talked to a few members that have high influence scores and they seem like really legit folks to me.
I don't like the idea of people being able to air their dirty laundry on the site because it is subject to massive abuse. Meet folks and do your due diligence outside of BP.
The idea of having expertise points by category still seems legit to me. The top members in each category would be good folks to do business with and would keep things positive instead of shouting from the rafters after every bad experience.
Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
16y
Hi Rich,
I'm a semi newbie here. I personally would be PO'd to be scammed by someone. What I'd really like to know is are the scammers still active members of BP? If they ARE still active, then I think it's up to the scammer and scammee to discuss it with Josh. Josh could make a decision if the scammer has acted in an unethical way that deserves their membership to BP revoked.
I think a section in the forum like ASK ABOUT A BP MEMBER is potentially better than smearing someone publically. That way if someone wants to know about another BP member, people can respond with a "PM me for details" if it's negative.
Sorry you got scammed. This is a community I originally came to for help with investing and I'll say my overall experience has been excellent. It upsets me people are out to get one over on others here. :cry:
Flipper · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 973 posts · 679 votes
16y
I too haven't been around long, but I have been ripped off by a BP member. When I joined, I assumed the people who made an effort to be a part of this site were actually decent people. Unfortunetly, not everyone seems to be. I'd like to see a panel or something, where both sides could submit their side of the story before any public flogging.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
16y
Originally posted by Marc Freislinger:
I too haven't been around long, but I have been ripped off by a BP member. When I joined, I assumed the people who made an effort to be a part of this site were actually decent people. Unfortunetly, not everyone seems to be. I'd like to see a panel or something, where both sides could submit their side of the story before any public flogging.
Marc, what happened, in general? No names, no addresses, just type of deal, maybe what you were led to believe and what it ended up being....what happened????
Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
16y
Sounds like "hall of shame" is a good name for a BP group.
As it says on the Groups page:
Groups will allow you to connect and network with BiggerPockets members that share your interests! Use the form to the right to search for a group you may be interested in, or ...
Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
I would be most concerned about those new to investing. So far I have been fortunate in my dealings with BP members. I believe though that there are some here more easily targeted than others. Rich, I'm sure that it is harder to fool you than it might be a new investor that is looking for help anywhere they can find it.
Maybe can use the endorsements better. If you have good dealings with BP members it would be nice to immediately give feedback about the transaction. Currently I think it is necessary to request an endorsement form other members.
Real Estate Investor · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 547 posts · 214 votes
16y
I still like the idea of exposing what was done, possibly how it was done or what made you (anyone who got scammed) believe it and what might have prevented it, no names just things to look out for..
Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes
16y
Originally posted by Financexaminer:
Originally posted by Marc Freislinger:
I too haven't been around long, but I have been ripped off by a BP member. When I joined, I assumed the people who made an effort to be a part of this site were actually decent people. Unfortunetly, not everyone seems to be. I'd like to see a panel or something, where both sides could submit their side of the story before any public flogging.
Marc, what happened, in general? No names, no addresses, just type of deal, maybe what you were led to believe and what it ended up being....what happened????
Rich and Marc: I´d also be interested in knowing scam practice of this BP members to prevent some other issues.
Also Ralph´s suggestion with a BP Group is very good.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
16y
I like the idea of the BP group, since it would consolidate this to a specific area and it wouldn't make a single long thread.
The downside of a group is that I believe those aren't publicly visible to the search engines, so the general public wouldn't be able to find.
Of course, my idea of PM would also require membership to BP, just like being able to see a BP group - so certainly the use of a group for this is not going to be worse than what I suggested.
I owe a few votes on this thread - my vote button seems non-functional at this time for any post.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
16y
All good ideas, especially from Steve from a site point of view, IMO, but I'm no techie!
Another aspect is that bringing to surface those members that might have done something sideways, there also needs to be a way for them to defend themselves, there are always two side to a story, so I'd wouldn't want to judge someone from just one side.
OTH, you have some members that may have questionable practices that appear to put other members at risk, especially newbies. One from the past comes to mind is a guy, Mike Lautensack, who has several foreclosures with lenders and appears to seek private lenders for other deals. There is a reason that insititutional lenders have an application process and if one lies in the process they may be held to have committed fraud. Individual lenders do not have that type of recourse, generally due to the lack of the processing/application activities (maybe much of that will now change under the SAFE Act). But members need to due their due diligence before they get into the business bed with anyone!
If someone has a track record of getting in trouble, it's hard to justify doing business with them, IMO. Good luck, Bill