How about this idea for BP? Please give input.

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How about this idea for BP? Please give input.

Rich Weese
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I don't care whether you vote for this thread or not, but please give input. I've now been scammed by 2 members of BP, and know of others that have also been scammed. I've also received some suggestions from Vikram, Tim W and others about starting a "Hall of Shame" or at least a forum where we may air our shaftings and warn others of those jerks, before they become repeat offenders. The jerks would be free to dispute the Facts presented, or hopefully disappear into the night. It might help some BP members avoid losing money they can't afford to lose.
I've had several PMs from others about this same subject. We need to police our own. Please reply in some fashion to let your interest in this be known. Thanks. Rich.

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Vikram C.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

Instead of publicly stating bad experiences with another member ( which is subject to abuse), we can have a link in the profile where we can list all the other BP members that we have done business with.

Any BP member who wishes to do business with an unknown member can then check to see who all that person has done business with in the past and send a PM request for experience / recommendation and then decide how to proceed.

This will allow us to keep tabs on people without violating anyone's privacy rights or subjecting someone to potential defamation or revenge.

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  • Bill Patterson
    Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes
    16y

    Wow, miss a couple of days and look at what I come back to! I hate scammers and have inadvertently done business with a couple, but figured it out in time to avoid a problem.
    Just a couple of points.....

    I'm more for positive referrals rather than posting bad experiences. A forum that you could go to and ask for BP member's input would be nice. If a BP member has not done business with the respective party, at least the method proposed could be legitimized.

    I always take responsibility for my due diligence (or lack of), but I have been around the block a few times, got lost a couple of times and can get a feeling if something doesn't feel right. Maybe it's too easy or others have not been able to accomplish it. If you get that "feeling", back off!

    A lot of new investors are on this site and it is them that I worry about most. They may have read a few books or listened to a few "gurus" and would be ripe for the taking by a scammer.

    What ever is decided, I think that there should be no anonymity. The accused and the accuser should both put their names and reputations on the line. Let the members decide who is in the right!

    Bill

    4Reply
  • Rich Weese
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    Agree with Bill. If you feel strong about a situation , you should be VERY willing to put your name on the post. Rich.

    0Reply
  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 683 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    Mark, I like your idea of posting reviews. It solves the issue raised by Steve. Does Yelp have a system to report false statements and remove them?


    Yelp is a mixed bag for business owners. One one hand they love it when a customer sings their praises, but things can get ugly when a customer is ticked off. There are a lot of stories about mom and pop businesses that have been squashed by bad yelp reviews when the owner decided to act stubborn. I can't find the specific article with this situation, but here is an article you may want to read regarding how business owners should respond to reviews (both good and bad)
    http://www.entrepreneur.com/management/operations/article197278.html

    I believe now (or soon) the business owner will be able to respond to a bad review and give their take on the situation.
    So if someone were to say "Sally from Sally's Dress shop was so Rude to me, I was in the shop yesterday and asked to used the bathroom and she said "no""

    Sally could then respond "There was a parade outside my shop yesterday, and I posted on the front door that the bathroom was for customers only. This person was clearly looking to use the bathroom and not purchase a dress, so I declined them use to the bathroom"

    OK, you get the picture. It lets those reading the reviews hear both sides and decide for themselves if they want to visit Sally's Dress Shop.

    I propose a model like this, of course it can be tweaked to fit our exact needs.

    As I see it it would be a scale rating system (1-5 or whatever) and a place to leave a comment. It would be regarding deals (obviously) and if someone wrote a review on you, you could respond. Even in the case where Tom say's one thing, and Jerry says another the person reading the reviews could read other reviews written by and to those two people. Now if Tom has a lot of good things written about him, and Jerry has a lot of negative things, it will be clear that Tom is probably spot on, and Jerry is a bit of a DB.
    Podcast Guest on Show #112
    Updegraff Group Realty4.745 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    Agree with Bill. If you feel strong about a situation , you should be VERY willing to put your name on the post. Rich.

    I did have to agree with this statement in general.

    However, why is it that so many people posting on BP can't even use their own FIRST NAME - forget about their FULL NAME?

    2Reply
  • Rich Weese
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    Steve- you raise a very valid question. Rich

    0Reply
  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 683 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    Steve- you raise a very valid question. Rich


    Probably the scarcity versus abundance mindset. There are some pretty sophisticated investors that frequent this board. Looking at the world through scarcity goggles makes you want to keep your identity a secret. Otherwise more competition.

    Sorry, I'm still working on the conversion, but my first name is legit, and my middle name is Claire. You'll know I'm fully abundant minded when it changes :oops:

    Another reason may be to keep the scammer's from being able to target them.

    ~m

    Podcast Guest on Show #112
    Updegraff Group Realty4.745 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Rich Weese
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    I guess I'm just too old to care what others think! I've always been happy and proud to use the name my Dad gave me. I've never been one to hide or guard my thoughts, feelings or identity. I realize I'm much more open than most, and am ok with that. Rich.
    p.s. we'll be waiting for Mark Claire _____- to show up when ready.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    I like the idea of notifying others regarding spammers. Just not sure of a fair way to handle it.

    I'm concerned that a feedback system might be rigged and that anyone with little experience dealing with others on BP would get left out over time. A feedback system is quite likely to inspire some creditability to those receiving positive points but those with no points would be impacted because they hadn't yet been involved with others here.

    I still like a system that allows for an easy way to give referrals to those that you have done business with here.

    A forum that allows possible scammers to reply to any accusations might work. There might be legal issues though and it might also have other unintended consequences. I'm just not sure how it would be implemented.

    0Reply
  • Greg G.
    Rental Property Investor · Southwest Michigan · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 43 votes
    16y

    However, why is it that so many people posting on BP can't even use their own FIRST NAME - forget about their FULL NAME?

    Steve, Many here may not be full time investors (yet), and I can speak from handling the human resources for my company, I utilize a Google search as part of our new hire screening. My google search will pick up someone's activity on BP if they're using their full name. We also utilize it for current employees. So there may be an interest to remain a bit anonymous, while not trying to be shady.

    Just figured out the "Quote" feature. Sorry about that.

    1Reply
  • Raymond B.
    FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 357 votes
    16y

    Another forum that I did a lot of buying and selling/trading, reveals the scammers names, and what they did.
    They post the real names.

    If anyone wants to see how another forum handles the "scammers" pm me, or send me an email.

    I posted the info once already, but it was deleted.

    Ray in Ct

    1Reply
  • Rich Weese
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    Charles- Both sides should be able to present their side of the transaction or argument. It shouldn't matter who says what and their length on BP. The facts are what I'd be interested in, as should others. Rich

    0Reply
  • Dawn Vought
    Buy and Hold Investor · Commack, NY · Member since 2008 · 353 posts · 33 votes
    16y

    Rich - I think this is a great idea, as long as some guidelines are put in place and enforced (I assume through moderators of the forum). I think it shouldn't be accusatory (is that a word?), but basically be more of a statement of facts, including who was involved, with both parties being able to state the facts as they know them. Then it would be up to the reader to decide (privately, to themselves) who they do or do not want to do business with, for whatever reason. No one has to decide in the end "so and so" was right and "Mr. Smith" was as fault.

    I'm sure if similar posts keep coming out on specific people, everyone will have a fair warning of what to expect in their dealings with that person.

    I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it's only slander if you say something untrue (and someone is negatively affected by it). With a statement of facts, opinions and supposition should not be included. I know that's easier said then done for some, though, but as I said I think this is a great idea! Scammers really bug me (I modified my wording here from the wording I really wanted to use!), and I am all for trying to hold them accountable.

    4Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    16y

    Timing. Funny how you can find a thread where somebody is voicing displeasure with somebody's business practices:
    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/312/topics/48415-owner-financing-suggestions

    7Reply
  • Sam M.
    Real Estate Investor · Craigmont, ID · Member since 2009 · 564 posts · 239 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    Timing. Funny how you can find a thread where somebody is voicing displeasure with somebody's business practices:
    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/312/topics/48415-owner-financing-suggestions

    If you look at the influence score George holds it may appear BP's methods work. After all who would choose to do business with someone 138 posts in and an influence score of only 46!!!!!!!!!! Not good numbers.

    0Reply
  • Uwe S.
    Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Sam M.:
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    Timing. Funny how you can find a thread where somebody is voicing displeasure with somebody's business practices:
    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/312/topics/48415-owner-financing-suggestions


    If you look at the influence score George holds it may appear BP's methods work. After all who would choose to do business with someone 138 posts in and an influence score of only 46!!!!!!!!!! Not good numbers.


    Yes, at begin George receive many negative points through ignoring rules of BP.

    -Uwe

    0Reply
  • Bill Patterson
    Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes
    16y

    I can see a few mistakes while trying to figure things out in the beginning, but I have about the same number of postings and even I have it figured out (mostly). This makes this thread front and center! You call it "timing", I like to call it "Serendipity"!
    Bill

    2Reply
  • Rich Weese
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    Anyone have any thoughts about how to proceed from here with a wall of shame? I offered to front it, if someone doesn't want to state their idea, by just PMing me, and I'll post it under my name. So far, no PMs on this subject.
    Thanks to Steve. I hadn't noticed this thread before, and I'm sure others hadn't either. I've read it now, and taken names! Rich

    0Reply
  • Michael Lauther
    Investor · Hampton Bays, NY · Member since 2009 · 907 posts · 258 votes
    16y

    This thread sparked more interest than i would have imagined. perhaps a forum on known scams and how to potentially avoid them would be helpful. No names therefore no legal mess. I am always concerned about pitfalls that may be inherant in any deal but a place to go to see how others have been scammed and how to avoid future scams would be a place i would visit often.

    3Reply
  • Scott H.
    Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2010 · 37 posts · 10 votes
    15y

    I think this is a great idea. I participate at flyertalk dot com (a popular frequent flyer forum) and they have a "secret access" forum where you can trade airline stuffs on the "black" market. If someone gets snubbed in a transaction, their username goes on a list with a short explanation.

    Of course, a moderator is required to hear both sides of a transaction and give them each ample time to reply. A bit labor intensive, but well worth it if someone has the time.

    Scott

    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    I have a nomination, it's currently on the front page of the forums concerning a tactical approach to real estate, several posts and no meat yet!

    0Reply
  • Jimmy Oldrich
    Real Estate Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2011 · 34 posts · 3 votes
    15y

    I like the idea of a known scam or pitfall section.

    I got burned on shoddy construction practices on a new construction condo. Water damage and had to rebuild the walls. 10s of thousands blown.

    As far as specific issues with specific BP members, I think anyone who feels strongly that they have been ripped off and wants to warn the community could spend a few hundred with a lawyer to educate themselves on how to do it in a way that minimizes their risks.

    I see some pretty outrageous stuff on the internet in terms of people calling each other out. Context is important in the libel laws. But there may be a case that BP is a more professional community. Certainly best to get expert advice.

    0Reply
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