Property manager manipulating the facts and not responding!

Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 1 vote

Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!

I need some guidance on how to deal with an ongoing issue I am having with a property manager of a home I presently own in Buckeye AZ!

The case is that a new couple of tenants signed in May 2025 trough property management company a two (2) years lease on my property.

Now, after a month of the second year lease , I received a notification from the property management office telling me:

"Hello Mary
The tenants here turned in keys to our office just now with no notice & stated it was due to domestic violence but did not provide documenation of such.
We will get an inspection done asap & will keep you posted
Please let me know if you have any questions
Thank you"

After a brief research and checking the documents submitted subsecuently and the corresponding police report, I found the domestic violence case occurred 56 days before (early May/2026) , which indicates the tenants missed the statutory 30 days window I.A.W State of Arizona law for an early termination of their lease. After some questions asked to the property management office, they sent me some additional information which so far hints that they had actually received an early termination of lease notification in the last week of May/2026, but they did not inform us of any ongoing issues at the property. I have been asking additional question and explanations for PM, but they are not responding now...

Do I have any legal recourse to act against the property management company for their deception and neglect of their responsabilities with me as a property owner?

Since the perpetrator of the domestic violence is not exempted from the early lease termination, and its protection is strictly designed to protect the victim and not the abuser, Is there anything I could do to collect from the abuser tenant - who is a cosigner of the lease - partial or total early termination fees?

Thanks in advance for any input in this matter

Mary F.

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Stuart UdisPro Member

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2mo

I don't know anything about Arizona landlord-tenant law, but based solely on what you've described, the property manager's actions don't immediately strike me as actionable. The first question I'd ask is: what are your actual damages? The second is: what will it cost you to pursue those damages?

Even if the property manager failed to communicate information as quickly as they should have, you'll still need to show that their actions caused you a measurable financial loss. In situations like this, it's often worth taking a step back and comparing the potential recovery against the time, legal expense, and effort required to pursue it. Sometimes the practical answer is more important than the legal one.

There was a post a few months ago from an owner involved in a dispute over a withheld security deposit because of the condition a tenant left the yard in. Landlord not only wanted to justify the withholdings but wanted to place some blame on the PM as well. Right or wrong, I suspect the amount of time spent documenting, researching, arguing, and justifying the withholding, if calculated on an hourly basis, would have amounted to less than minimum wage. Landlords often have a tendency to react emotionally before they react practically, and I suspect this situation may fall into that category.

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Peter MckernanBusiness Member
Residential Real Estate Agent · Irvine, CA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2mo
If you are not familiar with AZ tenant laws I would talk with some that is on this matter i.e. attorney for recourse on rents and who you can go after for early termination. The attorney will tell you if that PMC is liable for the early termination and not notifying you about it prior to these people handing in keys. They can also give you info on what you can do with the PMC going forward with regards to holding extra information from you and if you should take them to court.
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Eduardo Cavasotti
Investor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2018 · 193 posts · 81 votes
2mo
I would separate the tenant issue from the manager issue.

On the PM side, build a dated packet: lease, tenant notice, police report date, when the PM received notice, when they notified you, inspection photos, and every unanswered follow up.

An AZ attorney can tell you what is recoverable, but without that timeline you are arguing vibes instead of the exact failure.
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- Mary Funiga
  OP
  Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 1 vote
  2mo
  Quote from @Eduardo Cavasotti:
  
  I would separate the tenant issue from the manager issue.
  
  On the PM side, build a dated packet: lease, tenant notice, police report date, when the PM received notice, when they notified you, inspection photos, and every unanswered follow up.
  
  An AZ attorney can tell you what is recoverable, but without that timeline you are arguing vibes instead of the exact failure.
  
  You are right...Unfortunately I am out of the state... so at am at the mercy of whatever information the PMis be willingto facilitate...
  Presently I am waiting for answer to some questions I asked(but no answer for 2 days now), so I can put the case together!
  Thanks for your input!
  0 Reply
Richard F.
Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2mo
Regardless of circumstances, the PM needs to make honest effort to mitigate damages by getting the unit re-rented to an equally qualified Tenant at the same monthly rate. It is only AFTER the unit is filled that you actually know what your true "damages" are.
I would be much more interested in learning exactly what their screening criteria and process is; and why was it rented for 2 years to begin with?
My practice has always been initial six month term with verbal understanding that we would renew for additional full year at same terms if we were happy with the Tenant at that time, and they had the opportunity to make the same judgment of the property and management. That effectively gives you a six month "trial" period in case something does show up that was not revealed during the screening process.
Regarding screening, domestic violence is quite a step up, I would almost guarantee there were numerous signs of Bad Habits that should have caused rejection of their application, preventing such a situation. You cannot select tenants based solely on credit score and a paycheck, you need to understand the details of all reports, and look for those Bad Habits in all areas of their life.
1 Reply
Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2mo
So I'm trying to understand the situation. You had a two-year lease, and the tenants handed in the keys because there's a domestic violence situation. You're trying to place some blame on the property manager based on how long it took them to notify you of the situation? Wow, communication could have been better. You will spend more on legal fees than any actual recovery.

First, regarding recovery of the property manager, I'm not sure there's any damages you have against them, and you would also need to review your agreement with them. I would wager to bet the indemnification clause in there makes you liable for everything, even if they did something wrong.

Regarding the tenants, you can try and go after them, but you have to try and re-lease the unit. Your damages would be the delta, which, again, even if you get a judgment, trying to collect against it is nearly impossible.

Lastly, trying to throw your property manager under the bus, just remember that companies talk to other companies, and people move from one company to the other. If you are a difficult owner, you may have trouble finding a new property manager as well if you bad mouth the existing
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Jim Johnson
Real Estate Agent · Memphis · Member since 2026 · 538 posts · 311 votes
2mo
That sounds like a frustrating situation, especially if you feel information wasn't shared with you in a timely manner.
Before jumping to legal action, I'd focus on gathering the facts. I'd want copies of:

• The lease termination notice
• The property manager's communications with the tenants
• The police report or supporting documentation they received
• Your property management agreement
• A timeline of when the PM knew what and when they informed you

The management agreement is especially important because it will spell out what they're required to communicate to you and what authority they have in situations like this.
As for pursuing the tenant, I'd be cautious about assuming liability until you understand how Arizona's domestic violence protections apply to one tenant or both.
If you believe the PM witheld material information or failed to fulfill their contractual duties, it may be worth having a local real estate attorney review both the management agreement and the timeline. They can help determine whether you have a claim against the management company or whether your remedies are limited to the tenants.
At this point, I'd avoid relying on verbal explanations and communicate with the PM in writing. A clear, documented timeline will be valuable if the matter ultimately requires legal review.
0 Reply
Eduardo Cavasotti
Investor · Charleston, SC · Member since 2018 · 193 posts · 81 votes
2mo
That is exactly why I would keep the ask narrow: dates, documents received, action taken, and why you were not notified.

If they will not answer, send those questions in one written notice with a response deadline. You want a record that shows the silence, not just the frustration.
0 Reply
Stuart UdisPro Member
Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2mo
I don't know anything about Arizona landlord-tenant law, but based solely on what you've described, the property manager's actions don't immediately strike me as actionable. The first question I'd ask is: what are your actual damages? The second is: what will it cost you to pursue those damages?

Even if the property manager failed to communicate information as quickly as they should have, you'll still need to show that their actions caused you a measurable financial loss. In situations like this, it's often worth taking a step back and comparing the potential recovery against the time, legal expense, and effort required to pursue it. Sometimes the practical answer is more important than the legal one.

There was a post a few months ago from an owner involved in a dispute over a withheld security deposit because of the condition a tenant left the yard in. Landlord not only wanted to justify the withholdings but wanted to place some blame on the PM as well. Right or wrong, I suspect the amount of time spent documenting, researching, arguing, and justifying the withholding, if calculated on an hourly basis, would have amounted to less than minimum wage. Landlords often have a tendency to react emotionally before they react practically, and I suspect this situation may fall into that category.

[email protected]
4 Reply
Samantha Andrews
Member since 2026 · 35 posts · 45 votes
2mo
A helpful general approach in situations like this is to keep communication with your property manager calm and professional, even when the situation feels frustrating.

These kinds of disputes can naturally create tension, and it’s often useful to be mindful of tone simply because it can influence how responsive and cooperative the other side is. Staying focused on factual, specific requests—such as dates, notices received, actions taken, and supporting documentation—and keeping everything in writing tends to make it easier to get clear answers and maintain a usable record if further steps are needed.

If helpful, you can also use AI tools to help rewrite your emails into a clear, professional, and neutral tone before sending, to make sure the message is firm but not inflammatory.
Just a thought—this post is not to suggest your communication has been or would be inflammatory, but simply a general safeguard for keeping messages clear and neutral.
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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
2mo
Quote from @Mary Funiga:

Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!

I need some guidance on how to deal with an ongoing issue I am having with a property manager of a home I presently own in Buckeye AZ!

The case is that a new couple of tenants signed in May 2025 trough property management company a two (2) years lease on my property.

Now, after a month of the second year lease , I received a notification from the property management office telling me:

"Hello Mary
The tenants here turned in keys to our office just now with no notice & stated it was due to domestic violence but did not provide documenation of such.
We will get an inspection done asap & will keep you posted
Please let me know if you have any questions
Thank you"

After a brief research and checking the documents submitted subsecuently and the corresponding police report, I found the domestic violence case occurred 56 days before (early May/2026) , which indicates the tenants missed the statutory 30 days window I.A.W State of Arizona law for an early termination of their lease. After some questions asked to the property management office, they sent me some additional information which so far hints that they had actually received an early termination of lease notification in the last week of May/2026, but they did not inform us of any ongoing issues at the property. I have been asking additional question and explanations for PM, but they are not responding now...

Do I have any legal recourse to act against the property management company for their deception and neglect of their responsabilities with me as a property owner?

Since the perpetrator of the domestic violence is not exempted from the early lease termination, and its protection is strictly designed to protect the victim and not the abuser, Is there anything I could do to collect from the abuser tenant - who is a cosigner of the lease - partial or total early termination fees?

Thanks in advance for any input in this matter

Mary F.
NOBODY cares as much about your money as you do!

Employees, contractors, service providers …..don’t have the same needs, goals, motivations, nor abilities that you do. Took me 40 years to finally ADMIT this to myself.

So, work within the parameters of that information.

An employee of the management company neglected to inform you of the tenant situation (fell “thru the cracks”) at first; the omission was “caught” a little later. Talk to the PM manager about it, not in a hostile or blaming way, just as in a “let’s correct this” in the future way.

When you can’t be directly managing a situation, the chances of the situation being managed by someone else at up to your standards are about 2 percent.

I owned 6 properties in Arizona and lived in Houston. Over the 5 years of ownership this probably cost mean extra $15k in “expenses” not including management fees. Cost of doing business.

This is where those cash flow “pro formas” so favored by commercial brokers fall apart. And the “tight” positive cash flow anticipated by most transaction models turns negative until enough time passes and rent increases, refinancing at lower interest rates, and no further need for capital expenditures allow for b/e or even + cash flow.

So why bother to invest in real estate?

1. Price appreciation - the property you purchased for $200,000 20 years ago is worth $550,000 today
2. Loan amortization- after the 15 year loan is fully paid - by the rents collected - the property is now a “cash cow”.
3. Tax savings - depending on your specific situation could wipe out any negative cash flow completely. With cost segregation MAY result in very substantial first years savings
4. Inflation protection
5. Diversification - May appreciate in price even if there’s a severe bear market in stocks ( 1972 - 1981)
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Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
2mo
Quote from @Mary Funiga:

Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!

I need some guidance on how to deal with an ongoing issue I am having with a property manager of a home I presently own in Buckeye AZ!

The case is that a new couple of tenants signed in May 2025 trough property management company a two (2) years lease on my property.

Now, after a month of the second year lease , I received a notification from the property management office telling me:

"Hello Mary
The tenants here turned in keys to our office just now with no notice & stated it was due to domestic violence but did not provide documenation of such.
We will get an inspection done asap & will keep you posted
Please let me know if you have any questions
Thank you"

After a brief research and checking the documents submitted subsecuently and the corresponding police report, I found the domestic violence case occurred 56 days before (early May/2026) , which indicates the tenants missed the statutory 30 days window I.A.W State of Arizona law for an early termination of their lease. After some questions asked to the property management office, they sent me some additional information which so far hints that they had actually received an early termination of lease notification in the last week of May/2026, but they did not inform us of any ongoing issues at the property. I have been asking additional question and explanations for PM, but they are not responding now...

Do I have any legal recourse to act against the property management company for their deception and neglect of their responsabilities with me as a property owner?

Since the perpetrator of the domestic violence is not exempted from the early lease termination, and its protection is strictly designed to protect the victim and not the abuser, Is there anything I could do to collect from the abuser tenant - who is a cosigner of the lease - partial or total early termination fees?

Thanks in advance for any input in this matter

Mary F.

Here's the AZ statute:

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/33/01318.htm

Two separate issues:

1) Tenant Early Termination: without all the facts, it'll be difficult to determine if the tenant violated the statute.

Unfortunately, many victims of domestic violence give their abusers too many chances. So, there could be more to the story that led to the appearance of a delay.

I also did not see anything in the statute that requires the abuser to still be responsible for the remainder of the lease, but I'm not an attorney. There may also be case law that has subsequently established that.

2) PMC Communication: if your PMC did fail to alert you about a termination notice when originally received, that is unacceptable. I can't think of any reason to not inform you - even if the tenant hadn't submitted the required documentation or had later rescinded their notice.

Not sure why you are calling this "deception" on their part? This appears to be a case of "incompetence" than "deception" - which would require you to prove a proactive intent to deceive.

As several others have stated, suing the tenant and/or your PMC over all this may cost you more than anything you potentially recover:(

@Don Konipol

While you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?
[email protected]248-209-6824
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- Don KonipolBusiness Member
  Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
  2mo
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Mary Funiga:
  
  Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!
  
  @Don KonipolWhile you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?
  
  “While you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?”
  Drew Sygit
  I don’t believe my post in any way, shape or form “slammed” Property Managers, nor was it meant to.
  It merely stated the reality that (1) NOBODY looks out for your interests as you do yourself, (2) motivations in business between parties, even on the same side of the equation are usually NOT perfectly aligned, and (3) a certain amount of mistakes occur and if you can’t allow for them pretty soon you won’t have anyone to hire.
  These are FACTS known to everyone who has ever had employees, contractors, service providers, etc.
  I have provided and continue to provide “positive advice”. Investors being made aware that the cash flow projections they see will likely not be met when they aren’t able to self manage is positive in that the adherence to that advice won’t allow investors to purchase a property without sufficient reserves, and eventually lose the property and their good credit when the negative cash flow overwhelms their ability to subsidize the property. Investors being made aware that real estate can earn profits 4 other ways even with negative cash flow is “positive advice” when they’re calculations allow a “total return” feature as opposed to a “cash flow only” feature.
  Finally, I have 1.57 “up votes” for every 1 post; which may be the highest on BP for anyone over 1,000 posts. This is indicative of the fact that the participants in BP regard my posts as adding EXCEPTIONAL value to both the discussions and their own investment program.
  The key Drew is to THINK before you go off half cocked into some “I’m a victim” crusade.
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- Drew SygitBusiness Member
  Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
  2mo
  Quote from @Don Konipol:
  
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Mary Funiga:
  
  Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!
  
  @Don KonipolWhile you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?
  
  “While you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?”
  Drew Sygit
  I don’t believe my post in any way, shape or form “slammed” Property Managers, nor was it meant to.
  It merely stated the reality that (1) NOBODY looks out for your interests as you do yourself, (2) motivations in business between parties, even on the same side of the equation are usually NOT perfectly aligned, and (3) a certain amount of mistakes occur and if you can’t allow for them pretty soon you won’t have anyone to hire.
  These are FACTS known to everyone who has ever had employees, contractors, service providers, etc.
  I have provided and continue to provide “positive advice”. Investors being made aware that the cash flow projections they see will likely not be met when they aren’t able to self manage is positive in that the adherence to that advice won’t allow investors to purchase a property without sufficient reserves, and eventually lose the property and their good credit when the negative cash flow overwhelms their ability to subsidize the property. Investors being made aware that real estate can earn profits 4 other ways even with negative cash flow is “positive advice” when they’re calculations allow a “total return” feature as opposed to a “cash flow only” feature.
  Finally, I have 1.57 “up votes” for every 1 post; which may be the highest on BP for anyone over 1,000 posts. This is indicative of the fact that the participants in BP regard my posts as adding EXCEPTIONAL value to both the discussions and their own investment program.
  The key Drew is to THINK before you go off half cocked into some “I’m a victim” crusade.
  
  Well said!
  Actually, not trying to come off as a "victim".
  My crusade is about "fairness".
  Yes there are a LOT of terrible PMCs out there doing a bad job, with little legal oversight.
  On the other hand, there are also too many broadly stating that ALL owners can do a better job of managing their properties than a PMC, because no one cares as much as an owner.
  The problem with that is, we take on properties all the time where owners either:
  1) Don't know what they are doing, so are making expensive mistakes.
  2) Don't have the time to properly manage, which is losing them money.
  Not sure how owners in these situations actually care more about their investment than a great PMC they have/could hire?
  In all "fairness", it's my opinion, that yes an owner may care more about some of the minor aspects of managing their property and the longer term goals (think asset management), but a great PMC is typically more consistent and more knowledgeable overall.
  Would enjoy a one-on-one conversation/debate with you, to hear more about your thoughts, so DM me if interested🙃
  [email protected]248-209-6824
  Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews
  Website View Page
  1 Reply
- Ken M.
  Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
  2mo
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Don Konipol:
  
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Mary Funiga:
  
  Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!
  
  @Don KonipolWhile you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?
  
  “While you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?”
  Drew Sygit
  I don’t believe my post in any way, shape or form “slammed” Property Managers, nor was it meant to.
  It merely stated the reality that (1) NOBODY looks out for your interests as you do yourself, (2) motivations in business between parties, even on the same side of the equation are usually NOT perfectly aligned, and (3) a certain amount of mistakes occur and if you can’t allow for them pretty soon you won’t have anyone to hire.
  These are FACTS known to everyone who has ever had employees, contractors, service providers, etc.
  I have provided and continue to provide “positive advice”. Investors being made aware that the cash flow projections they see will likely not be met when they aren’t able to self manage is positive in that the adherence to that advice won’t allow investors to purchase a property without sufficient reserves, and eventually lose the property and their good credit when the negative cash flow overwhelms their ability to subsidize the property. Investors being made aware that real estate can earn profits 4 other ways even with negative cash flow is “positive advice” when they’re calculations allow a “total return” feature as opposed to a “cash flow only” feature.
  Finally, I have 1.57 “up votes” for every 1 post; which may be the highest on BP for anyone over 1,000 posts. This is indicative of the fact that the participants in BP regard my posts as adding EXCEPTIONAL value to both the discussions and their own investment program.
  The key Drew is to THINK before you go off half cocked into some “I’m a victim” crusade.
  
  Well said!
  Actually, not trying to come off as a "victim".
  My crusade is about "fairness".
  Yes there are a LOT of terrible PMCs out there doing a bad job, with little legal oversight.
  On the other hand, there are also too many broadly stating that ALL owners can do a better job of managing their properties than a PMC, because no one cares as much as an owner.
  The problem with that is, we take on properties all the time where owners either:
  1) Don't know what they are doing, so are making expensive mistakes.
  2) Don't have the time to properly manage, which is losing them money.
  Not sure how owners in these situations actually care more about their investment than a great PMC they have/could hire?
  In all "fairness", it's my opinion, that yes an owner may care more about some of the minor aspects of managing their property and the longer term goals (think asset management), but a great PMC is typically more consistent and more knowledgeable overall.
  Would enjoy a one-on-one conversation/debate with you, to hear more about your thoughts, so DM me if interested🙃
  
  Your comment "My crusade is about "fairness"."
  
  I agree, that being "fair" is the goal . . . except in court.
  
  The goal there is to win and the attorneys know it. They get paid to win. It's the judge who decides what is "fair" and it may not be what you'd expect.
  
  It's who can prove their side's argument is stronger, which litigant is more convincing (not more honest, but more convincing) and the judge's biases.
  
  Court is for people who love to logically argue. But supposedly it's finalized on provable "facts" for people who have lots of money and lots of time.
  
  For instance, a little old lady who was "cast out of her house by the greedy investor" almost always wins. Even if she is only marginally "right" on one item.
  That's why following the eviction protocol, to the "T" is important.
  
  That's why litigation gets so expensive and is usually pointless in the OPs situation.
  Because a tenant favorable judge will find a way to delay or an excuse to dismiss the case.
  And suing a Property Manager just isn't worth it in this situation, IMHO.
  0 Reply
- Don KonipolBusiness Member
  Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
  2mo
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Don Konipol:
  
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Mary Funiga:
  
  Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!
  
  @Don KonipolWhile you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?
  
  “While you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?”
  Drew Sygit
  I don’t believe my post in any way, shape or form “slammed” Property Managers, nor was it meant to.
  It merely stated the reality that (1) NOBODY looks out for your interests as you do yourself, (2) motivations in business between parties, even on the same side of the equation are usually NOT perfectly aligned, and (3) a certain amount of mistakes occur and if you can’t allow for them pretty soon you won’t have anyone to hire.
  These are FACTS known to everyone who has ever had employees, contractors, service providers, etc.
  I have provided and continue to provide “positive advice”. Investors being made aware that the cash flow projections they see will likely not be met when they aren’t able to self manage is positive in that the adherence to that advice won’t allow investors to purchase a property without sufficient reserves, and eventually lose the property and their good credit when the negative cash flow overwhelms their ability to subsidize the property. Investors being made aware that real estate can earn profits 4 other ways even with negative cash flow is “positive advice” when they’re calculations allow a “total return” feature as opposed to a “cash flow only” feature.
  Finally, I have 1.57 “up votes” for every 1 post; which may be the highest on BP for anyone over 1,000 posts. This is indicative of the fact that the participants in BP regard my posts as adding EXCEPTIONAL value to both the discussions and their own investment program.
  The key Drew is to THINK before you go off half cocked into some “I’m a victim” crusade.
  
  Well said!
  Actually, not trying to come off as a "victim".
  My crusade is about "fairness".
  Yes there are a LOT of terrible PMCs out there doing a bad job, with little legal oversight.
  On the other hand, there are also too many broadly stating that ALL owners can do a better job of managing their properties than a PMC, because no one cares as much as an owner.
  The problem with that is, we take on properties all the time where owners either:
  1) Don't know what they are doing, so are making expensive mistakes.
  2) Don't have the time to properly manage, which is losing them money.
  Not sure how owners in these situations actually care more about their investment than a great PMC they have/could hire?
  In all "fairness", it's my opinion, that yes an owner may care more about some of the minor aspects of managing their property and the longer term goals (think asset management), but a great PMC is typically more consistent and more knowledgeable overall.
  Would enjoy a one-on-one conversation/debate with you, to hear more about your thoughts, so DM me if interested🙃
  Drew, you seem like you take serious pride in your occupation of property management. You would definitely be on my short list of PMs if I needed a PM.
  Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  Website View Page
  1 Reply
- Drew SygitBusiness Member
  Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
  2mo
  Quote from @Don Konipol:
  
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Don Konipol:
  
  Quote from @Drew Sygit:
  
  Quote from @Mary Funiga:
  
  Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!
  
  @Don KonipolWhile you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?
  
  “While you're welcome to your opinion, how is your post slamming PMC's providing any positive advice?”
  Drew Sygit
  I don’t believe my post in any way, shape or form “slammed” Property Managers, nor was it meant to.
  It merely stated the reality that (1) NOBODY looks out for your interests as you do yourself, (2) motivations in business between parties, even on the same side of the equation are usually NOT perfectly aligned, and (3) a certain amount of mistakes occur and if you can’t allow for them pretty soon you won’t have anyone to hire.
  These are FACTS known to everyone who has ever had employees, contractors, service providers, etc.
  I have provided and continue to provide “positive advice”. Investors being made aware that the cash flow projections they see will likely not be met when they aren’t able to self manage is positive in that the adherence to that advice won’t allow investors to purchase a property without sufficient reserves, and eventually lose the property and their good credit when the negative cash flow overwhelms their ability to subsidize the property. Investors being made aware that real estate can earn profits 4 other ways even with negative cash flow is “positive advice” when they’re calculations allow a “total return” feature as opposed to a “cash flow only” feature.
  Finally, I have 1.57 “up votes” for every 1 post; which may be the highest on BP for anyone over 1,000 posts. This is indicative of the fact that the participants in BP regard my posts as adding EXCEPTIONAL value to both the discussions and their own investment program.
  The key Drew is to THINK before you go off half cocked into some “I’m a victim” crusade.
  
  Well said!
  Actually, not trying to come off as a "victim".
  My crusade is about "fairness".
  Yes there are a LOT of terrible PMCs out there doing a bad job, with little legal oversight.
  On the other hand, there are also too many broadly stating that ALL owners can do a better job of managing their properties than a PMC, because no one cares as much as an owner.
  The problem with that is, we take on properties all the time where owners either:
  1) Don't know what they are doing, so are making expensive mistakes.
  2) Don't have the time to properly manage, which is losing them money.
  Not sure how owners in these situations actually care more about their investment than a great PMC they have/could hire?
  In all "fairness", it's my opinion, that yes an owner may care more about some of the minor aspects of managing their property and the longer term goals (think asset management), but a great PMC is typically more consistent and more knowledgeable overall.
  Would enjoy a one-on-one conversation/debate with you, to hear more about your thoughts, so DM me if interested🙃
  Drew, you seem like you take serious pride in your occupation of property management. You would definitely be on my short list of PMs if I needed a PM.
  
  Man, it ain't easy, so thanks for "noticing":)
  I also take pride in freely admitting I don't know everything and am always learning.
  So, I'm serious about chatting with you and learning from your perspective - what's the wort that can happen 😅
  [email protected]248-209-6824
  Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews
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Colleen F.Pro Member
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2mo
Not a lawyer but if you read Section I/J of the statue if you have someone who is named in an order of protection or a departmental report... who provokes early lease termination they may be liable for your losses. However what happens a lot is each claim the other as an abuser and for this statue then you might have no one to go after. Your best move is always to quickly re-rent.
As for your claim against the PM, I would work with them now to find out how they are handling this security deposit and why. The only one who is going to win if you go against the PM is a lawyer. Get the unit re-rented and determine if you still want to work with this PM. It sounds like they knew the lease break was happening and should have set up people to make unit rent ready. While notice to you was missing, the real damage was in not lining up things to get your unit quickly back on the market. Personally, I would not sign a two year lease, hope you didn't get talked into a better price for the longer lease.
0 Reply
Shiloh LundahlPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2mo
@Doug McVinua is a property manager in Arizona and he could probably give you some insights into this situation.
480-206-1209 Podcast Guest on Show #287
0 Reply
Ken M.
Investor · Get yourself trained before doing something inadvisable. · Member since 2024 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2mo
Quote from @Mary Funiga:

Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!

I need some guidance on how to deal with an ongoing issue I am having with a property manager of a home I presently own in Buckeye AZ!

The case is that a new couple of tenants signed in May 2025 trough property management company a two (2) years lease on my property.

Now, after a month of the second year lease , I received a notification from the property management office telling me:

"Hello Mary
The tenants here turned in keys to our office just now with no notice & stated it was due to domestic violence but did not provide documenation of such.
We will get an inspection done asap & will keep you posted
Please let me know if you have any questions
Thank you"

After a brief research and checking the documents submitted subsecuently and the corresponding police report, I found the domestic violence case occurred 56 days before (early May/2026) , which indicates the tenants missed the statutory 30 days window I.A.W State of Arizona law for an early termination of their lease. After some questions asked to the property management office, they sent me some additional information which so far hints that they had actually received an early termination of lease notification in the last week of May/2026, but they did not inform us of any ongoing issues at the property. I have been asking additional question and explanations for PM, but they are not responding now...

Do I have any legal recourse to act against the property management company for their deception and neglect of their responsabilities with me as a property owner?

Since the perpetrator of the domestic violence is not exempted from the early lease termination, and its protection is strictly designed to protect the victim and not the abuser, Is there anything I could do to collect from the abuser tenant - who is a cosigner of the lease - partial or total early termination fees?

Thanks in advance for any input in this matter

Mary F.

@Mary Funiga: I feel your pain and I’m actually an investor in Arizona.

Your real options are to find a PM you work with better, manage it yourself, or train your PM. Ultimately, it’s your responsibility.

I find it humorous that a guy from MI @Drew Sygit: is trying to correct a guy from TX @Don Konipol: about a legal situation in AZ.

I dunno, that just strikes me as being funny.

No offense meant to either party.

Using an ARS 33-1318 is like using the comment “this is a banana”.

Well, yeah it’s a banana but what type, what condition, how ripe, what are you going to do with it, will you be successful, etc.

It’s only a starting point.

It gets modified by the facts that are presented by each side, that are only acceptable when verified by a judge. That’s a long and expensive route. A reasonable case will require at least a $10,000 retainer fee to an Arizona attorney, who initiates a lawsuit so the judge can decide, who is “right”. There are always surprises, who is to know the mind of a judge?

@Stuart Audis: asks the pertinent questions

“what are your actual damages?"

"The second is: what will it cost you to pursue those damages?"

The answer is more time, aggravation, and thousands of dollars than you expect and that you’ll likely never collect or get back.
1 Reply
- Drew SygitBusiness Member
  Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
  2mo
  Quote from @Ken M.:
  
  Quote from @Mary Funiga:
  
  Hello everyone in the BIGGER POCKETS community!!
  
  I need some guidance on how to deal with an ongoing issue I am having with a property manager of a home I presently own in Buckeye AZ!
  
  The case is that a new couple of tenants signed in May 2025 trough property management company a two (2) years lease on my property.
  
  Now, after a month of the second year lease , I received a notification from the property management office telling me:
  
  "Hello Mary
  The tenants here turned in keys to our office just now with no notice & stated it was due to domestic violence but did not provide documenation of such.
  We will get an inspection done asap & will keep you posted
  Please let me know if you have any questions
  Thank you"
  
  After a brief research and checking the documents submitted subsecuently and the corresponding police report, I found the domestic violence case occurred 56 days before (early May/2026) , which indicates the tenants missed the statutory 30 days window I.A.W State of Arizona law for an early termination of their lease. After some questions asked to the property management office, they sent me some additional information which so far hints that they had actually received an early termination of lease notification in the last week of May/2026, but they did not inform us of any ongoing issues at the property. I have been asking additional question and explanations for PM, but they are not responding now...
  
  Do I have any legal recourse to act against the property management company for their deception and neglect of their responsabilities with me as a property owner?
  
  Since the perpetrator of the domestic violence is not exempted from the early lease termination, and its protection is strictly designed to protect the victim and not the abuser, Is there anything I could do to collect from the abuser tenant - who is a cosigner of the lease - partial or total early termination fees?
  
  Thanks in advance for any input in this matter
  
  Mary F.
  
  @Mary Funiga: I feel your pain and I’m actually an investor in Arizona.
  
  Your real options are to find a PM you work with better, manage it yourself, or train your PM. Ultimately, it’s your responsibility.
  
  I find it humorous that a guy from MI @Drew Sygit: is trying to correct a guy from TX @Don Konipol: about a legal situation in AZ.
  
  I dunno, that just strikes me as being funny.
  
  No offense meant to either party.
  
  Using an ARS 33-1318 is like using the comment “this is a banana”.
  
  Well, yeah it’s a banana but what type, what condition, how ripe, what are you going to do with it, will you be successful, etc.
  
  It’s only a starting point.
  
  It gets modified by the facts that are presented by each side, that are only acceptable when verified by a judge. That’s a long and expensive route. A reasonable case will require at least a $10,000 retainer fee to an Arizona attorney, who initiates a lawsuit so the judge can decide, who is “right”. There are always surprises, who is to know the mind of a judge?
  
  @Stuart Audis: asks the pertinent questions
  
  “what are your actual damages?"
  
  "The second is: what will it cost you to pursue those damages?"
  
  The answer is more time, aggravation, and thousands of dollars than you expect and that you’ll likely never collect or get back.
  
  Yeah, online opinions are too easy!
  [email protected]248-209-6824
  Logical Property Management4.9450 Reviews
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