My experience with Flipsystem

My experience with Flipsystem

Member since 2024 · 4 posts · 8 votes

I joined Flipsystem (FS) about a year ago for the following reasons:
1. I had invested in out of state RE in the Midwest before. buy & holds in OH that we ran into several issues with, incompetent PMs and lot of repairs required leading to losses and instability.
2. I wanted it to be passive since I have a full time job in tech and cannot do what "boots on the ground can".
3. I wanted to avoid shady characters and losses while trying to build a rental portfolio that was rehabbed to a good standard and didn't have much maintenance issues.
4. Networking with other OOS investors and shared knowledge and experience.

FS seemed to have all the answers so I bit the bullet and paid 15k to get it going. ( I know, but hindsight is 20/20). Before signing up, i asked if I could talk to a FS student to so they referred me to a woman who had good things to say. She turned out to be Antonie's girlfriend. This is really shady business and I do not appreciate the lack of full disclosure on this very apparent conflict of interest.

This is a tale of caution for anyone who gets their marketing on social media and is considering signing up. Know what to expect doing into it. IMO, there are better and cheaper ways to do it. When i signed up, I couldn't find any reviews on BP and I hope this helps people make the right choice.

1. they make it sound like they do a lot more work than they actually do. They said Max 3-4 hrs of work a week. But it takes a lot more than that.
2. They charge $1000 if you buy one of their pre selected properties. There is no guarantee that the numbers will pencil out in real life so that is on you. These properties are on the MLS most of the time. but to be fair, it is not required for you to buy their advertised properties.
3. Their "teams on the ground" are supposed to be vetted. They are not. They are just partnerships with local teams and the true beneficiaries here are FS and the teams at your expense. They don't guarantee their performance and your money is lost if they flee with it. 
4. They charge 15K for their 1 year support - 
a. the reality of this support : yes, they will respond to your questions but only if they are to understand how things work - like a real estate 101 class. The advice is very basic. There is no 1:1 troubleshooting that is really specific to your concerns.
b. They used to have a Discord community which they closed down in favor of a heavily moderated chat feature. This is heavily moderated. No posts that display dissatisfaction will make it onto the chat.
c. They conduct weekly meetings and most of the content is rinse-repeat. Again heavily moderated. No room for feedback or disapproval.
d. They want to have tight control of which team is introduced to work with and do not allow sharing of info among members. There is no networking avenue and people cannot really have an honest discussion or provide feedback.

f. Contacts for Hard money lenders, title company etc - this is really not a big thing . Quick google search is all you need.

They charge $197 for a monthly subscription to a deal analyzer. It is just a calculator. Ridiculous to have to pay for this. 

Another way they are making money: Offering to market our properties to their mailing list of turnkey buyers.
Another $1k down the drain. They would not share info or stats on how many successful sales have happened in the market via their website. But i was desperate to sell and get my money back so I paid and it turned out just as I expected. Little to no interest. We dont know how many people it was marketed to. what are the actual sales figures. 

All in all, the Martels are making a lot of money first timers who don't know any better. Some good investor focussed realtors will give you all those intros and more for free. I wish I didn't do it. Personal referrals are the way to go IMO. 

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Lender · Fort Lauderdale, FL (Lending in FL CT GA MI PA) · Member since 2022 · 470 posts · 349 votes
2y

Sorry for the bad experience and thanks for warning the rest of BP! Unfortunately these guru programs are rarely (never?) worth it. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Lender · Fort Lauderdale, FL (Lending in FL CT GA MI PA) · Member since 2022 · 470 posts · 349 votes
    2y

    Sorry for the bad experience and thanks for warning the rest of BP! Unfortunately these guru programs are rarely (never?) worth it. 

  • Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 351 votes
    2y

    Best to do Joint venture with a  reputed flipper near you at the start

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 755 votes
    2y

    Sorry to see this! I generally tell people to stay away from these guru groups and courses as well. It's just best to find local investors and good realtors/PMs for each market that you're looking at. Expensive lesson learned but you will recover

  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Ugh, Madhuri, as someone who is heavily invested in Detroit and helps a LOT of out-of-state investors get started there, this makes me sick.

    I talk to about a dozen folks per week looking to invest in Detroit and I've heard my fair share of Flip Systems folks. Sadly, I've never heard anything positive. 

    For future reference, there are some threads about them here on BP. The search function leaves much to be desired, but you'll do best searching "FlipSystems" as one word:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1182640-lesso...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/1204806-seeki...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1098187-flips...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1188268-flips...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/1181695-is-fl...

    I admittedly have not read every reply, but it seems like a sea of red with "Amy B." being the only positive sounding reply on this thread: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/1174732-calli...

    Is that the person you spoke to as a reference that's his girlfriend? Profile here for reference: https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/amyb289

    It stood out as oddly out of place to me to the point where I recalled it and was able to dig it up tonight.

    Anyway, again... I'm sorry this happened to you. If I can be of any help, please let me know. Happy to talk through your current situation and offer advice or contacts if needed. 

  • Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y

    Agree 100% with this thread. Beware of FS and the teams they work with specially in Detroit area. Every team, PMs, construction teams just rob foreign investors. Later on PMs and teams threat with lien as they have the leverage. Terrible place to invest in. They are making foreign investors turn away like this. So many folks have lost money trusting them. 

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 13k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    2y

    @Madhuri Gupta we have nothing good to say about them after they contacted us and we did business with them for a couple of months. 

    All their clients tried to blame us for not being able to:

    1) Do the rehabs on the budget advertised

    2) Get the rents they were promised

    Check out our website and DM us if you'd like more info or discuss the proper way to invest in Detroit:)

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    I'm sorry this happened to you. I also got on a call with FlipSystem with a rep, who turned out to be Antoine's girlfriend (that wasn't disclosed during the call but it's clear from the social media posts she's his gf). I decided not to proceed because of the $15k cost. I also invest in the Indianapolis metro area and had similar problems to what you mentioned in Ohio. In general I think OOS investing has a lot more risks and I've learned a lot in the last 2 years and lost money. 

    I still get emails from turnkey companies and one of them (Martel Turnkey) said "stress free investing". There's nothing stress free about real estate. 

    Their ads are all over my social media newsfeed (Instagram). Now they're saying there are two strategies after doing this flip: 1) Flip it and get the cash 2) Turn it into a rental (essentially a BRRRR).

    Thanks for sharing the details of your experience. I agree with you on the personal referrals. 

  • Specialist · NJ · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 661 votes
    2y

    That's sad to hear.  Seems like taking advantage of eager investors with exaggerated marketing claims. 

    Coordinating OOS deals is hard.  It's a moving target.  I went through 8+ GCs in one market.  In and around the Philly market, which is my home town, my contractor comes from a referral from a friend who worked with this GC.  The difference is night and day between using someone you find online or in a search vs a personal referral.  Night and Day.

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 755 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mike Klarman:

    That's sad to hear.  Seems like taking advantage of eager investors with exaggerated marketing claims. 

    Coordinating OOS deals is hard.  It's a moving target.  I went through 8+ GCs in one market.  In and around the Philly market, which is my home town, my contractor comes from a referral from a friend who worked with this GC.  The difference is night and day between using someone you find online or in a search vs a personal referral.  Night and Day.

    Eager newbie investors will get taken often, unfortunately.  I agree with you on the personal referrals. It is usually much better. OOS would work if you have a solid contact in that area though but yea dealing with strangers is going to end up in hassles unless you get insanely lucky!
  • Member since 2024 · 4 posts · 8 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

    Ugh, Madhuri, as someone who is heavily invested in Detroit and helps a LOT of out-of-state investors get started there, this makes me sick.

    I talk to about a dozen folks per week looking to invest in Detroit and I've heard my fair share of Flip Systems folks. Sadly, I've never heard anything positive. 

    For future reference, there are some threads about them here on BP. The search function leaves much to be desired, but you'll do best searching "FlipSystems" as one word:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1182640-lesso...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/1204806-seeki...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1098187-flips...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/1188268-flips...

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/1181695-is-fl...

    I admittedly have not read every reply, but it seems like a sea of red with "Amy B." being the only positive sounding reply on this thread: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/1174732-calli...

    Is that the person you spoke to as a reference that's his girlfriend? Profile here for reference: https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/amyb289

    It stood out as oddly out of place to me to the point where I recalled it and was able to dig it up tonight.

    Anyway, again... I'm sorry this happened to you. If I can be of any help, please let me know. Happy to talk through your current situation and offer advice or contacts if needed. 


     Amy is not the one I spoke to. It was Soma Bhatia we spoke to. She is an actress. She did act well regarding being an FS student and how good her experience with the company was. She is also Antoine's girlfriend from his social media. We obviously did not know this at that time.


    Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Soma_Chhaya
  • Member since 2022 · 1 post · 0 votes
    1y

    I would be extremely cautious of this company and anything started by this family. It’s hard to find a lot of negative reviews as they’ve gotten Reddit threads removed and pour in fake reviews on sites from employees, family members etc. it’s not that hard to do a quick google search and see. They do not take criticism and will die on that hill. 

    The concept of the system is smart. The same way people buy into a CRM software. It’s something people need. However $15k is insane and the way they hold their business, the way they act and talk to people is just down right awful and will be the demise of their company. You can see their condescending tone in their replies to anything negative online. 

    Next let’s talk about their shady business practices. Yes - they will have (again) employees, family and friends get on calls saying they are previous clients without disclosing who they are. Shady. They also will recommend “lenders”, “banks” “closers” “agents” and title company who they 100% are getting cuts from AND EVEN OWN without disclosing that information. Again simple google search will expose this. 

    Lastly. This man has how many Instagram followers?! And gets like 20 likes. Like c’mon. Shady as ****. 

    That’s all I have to say. Google is your friend. Do you research wisely when deciding to work with anyone that you don’t know. 

    Edit: I noticed either they had my comment removed or the whole thread from a BP discussion last year about this as well. Sad

  • Havan SuratPro Member
    Vancouver, British Columbia · Member since 2019 · 72 posts · 30 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Madhuri Gupta:

    I joined Flipsystem (FS) about a year ago for the following reasons:
    1. I had invested in out of state RE in the Midwest before. buy & holds in OH that we ran into several issues with, incompetent PMs and lot of repairs required leading to losses and instability.
    2. I wanted it to be passive since I have a full time job in tech and cannot do what "boots on the ground can".
    3. I wanted to avoid shady characters and losses while trying to build a rental portfolio that was rehabbed to a good standard and didn't have much maintenance issues.
    4. Networking with other OOS investors and shared knowledge and experience.

    FS seemed to have all the answers so I bit the bullet and paid 15k to get it going. ( I know, but hindsight is 20/20). Before signing up, i asked if I could talk to a FS student to so they referred me to a woman who had good things to say. She turned out to be Antonie's girlfriend. This is really shady business and I do not appreciate the lack of full disclosure on this very apparent conflict of interest.

    This is a tale of caution for anyone who gets their marketing on social media and is considering signing up. Know what to expect doing into it. IMO, there are better and cheaper ways to do it. When i signed up, I couldn't find any reviews on BP and I hope this helps people make the right choice.

    1. they make it sound like they do a lot more work than they actually do. They said Max 3-4 hrs of work a week. But it takes a lot more than that.
    2. They charge $1000 if you buy one of their pre selected properties. There is no guarantee that the numbers will pencil out in real life so that is on you. These properties are on the MLS most of the time. but to be fair, it is not required for you to buy their advertised properties.
    3. Their "teams on the ground" are supposed to be vetted. They are not. They are just partnerships with local teams and the true beneficiaries here are FS and the teams at your expense. They don't guarantee their performance and your money is lost if they flee with it. 
    4. They charge 15K for their 1 year support - 
    a. the reality of this support : yes, they will respond to your questions but only if they are to understand how things work - like a real estate 101 class. The advice is very basic. There is no 1:1 troubleshooting that is really specific to your concerns.
    b. They used to have a Discord community which they closed down in favor of a heavily moderated chat feature. This is heavily moderated. No posts that display dissatisfaction will make it onto the chat.
    c. They conduct weekly meetings and most of the content is rinse-repeat. Again heavily moderated. No room for feedback or disapproval.
    d. They want to have tight control of which team is introduced to work with and do not allow sharing of info among members. There is no networking avenue and people cannot really have an honest discussion or provide feedback.

    f. Contacts for Hard money lenders, title company etc - this is really not a big thing . Quick google search is all you need.

    They charge $197 for a monthly subscription to a deal analyzer. It is just a calculator. Ridiculous to have to pay for this. 

    Another way they are making money: Offering to market our properties to their mailing list of turnkey buyers.
    Another $1k down the drain. They would not share info or stats on how many successful sales have happened in the market via their website. But i was desperate to sell and get my money back so I paid and it turned out just as I expected. Little to no interest. We dont know how many people it was marketed to. what are the actual sales figures. 

    All in all, the Martels are making a lot of money first timers who don't know any better. Some good investor focussed realtors will give you all those intros and more for free. I wish I didn't do it. Personal referrals are the way to go IMO. 


     Now they are saying that there is no upfront fee but only monthly fee of $197. Not sure if its still worth it then.

  • Member since 2024 · 4 posts · 8 votes
    1y

    Wow really? Guess I should as for my money back now that they believe that is what they are worth. @Havan Surat

  • Shaheen AhmedPro Member
    Contractor · Los Angeles · Member since 2023 · 80 posts · 55 votes
    9mo
    Quote from @Madhuri Gupta:

    I joined Flipsystem (FS) about a year ago for the following reasons:
    1. I had invested in out of state RE in the Midwest before. buy & holds in OH that we ran into several issues with, incompetent PMs and lot of repairs required leading to losses and instability.
    2. I wanted it to be passive since I have a full time job in tech and cannot do what "boots on the ground can".
    3. I wanted to avoid shady characters and losses while trying to build a rental portfolio that was rehabbed to a good standard and didn't have much maintenance issues.
    4. Networking with other OOS investors and shared knowledge and experience.

    FS seemed to have all the answers so I bit the bullet and paid 15k to get it going. ( I know, but hindsight is 20/20). Before signing up, i asked if I could talk to a FS student to so they referred me to a woman who had good things to say. She turned out to be Antonie's girlfriend. This is really shady business and I do not appreciate the lack of full disclosure on this very apparent conflict of interest.

    This is a tale of caution for anyone who gets their marketing on social media and is considering signing up. Know what to expect doing into it. IMO, there are better and cheaper ways to do it. When i signed up, I couldn't find any reviews on BP and I hope this helps people make the right choice.

    1. they make it sound like they do a lot more work than they actually do. They said Max 3-4 hrs of work a week. But it takes a lot more than that.
    2. They charge $1000 if you buy one of their pre selected properties. There is no guarantee that the numbers will pencil out in real life so that is on you. These properties are on the MLS most of the time. but to be fair, it is not required for you to buy their advertised properties.
    3. Their "teams on the ground" are supposed to be vetted. They are not. They are just partnerships with local teams and the true beneficiaries here are FS and the teams at your expense. They don't guarantee their performance and your money is lost if they flee with it. 
    4. They charge 15K for their 1 year support - 
    a. the reality of this support : yes, they will respond to your questions but only if they are to understand how things work - like a real estate 101 class. The advice is very basic. There is no 1:1 troubleshooting that is really specific to your concerns.
    b. They used to have a Discord community which they closed down in favor of a heavily moderated chat feature. This is heavily moderated. No posts that display dissatisfaction will make it onto the chat.
    c. They conduct weekly meetings and most of the content is rinse-repeat. Again heavily moderated. No room for feedback or disapproval.
    d. They want to have tight control of which team is introduced to work with and do not allow sharing of info among members. There is no networking avenue and people cannot really have an honest discussion or provide feedback.

    f. Contacts for Hard money lenders, title company etc - this is really not a big thing . Quick google search is all you need.

    They charge $197 for a monthly subscription to a deal analyzer. It is just a calculator. Ridiculous to have to pay for this. 

    Another way they are making money: Offering to market our properties to their mailing list of turnkey buyers.
    Another $1k down the drain. They would not share info or stats on how many successful sales have happened in the market via their website. But i was desperate to sell and get my money back so I paid and it turned out just as I expected. Little to no interest. We dont know how many people it was marketed to. what are the actual sales figures. 

    All in all, the Martels are making a lot of money first timers who don't know any better. Some good investor focussed realtors will give you all those intros and more for free. I wish I didn't do it. Personal referrals are the way to go IMO. 

    Terrible experience, you are very detailed and didn’t think someone like you would need these gurus. They are all scammers including Grant Cordon. Hope you are not discouraged by it and still in the game. I am very new investor, live in California, bought my first rental in Mobile and its doing great. Good luck. 
  • Long Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    3d

    I'm a fellow Flip System student that got swindled. I still actually have the property in Detroit and trying to work through my property manager that Flip System suggested, Rondo, and it's not going great.

    I have a bad tenant we need to evict, concerned about theft in the house once evicted, and coming into the winter months.

    I stay positive hoping this is part of the learning process, but could really use some mentorship and help on what to do.

    I'm still positive on what's happening around Detroit. I'm open to talking to other fellow Detroit investors on what they are doing.

    • Drew SygitBusiness Member
      Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 13k+ posts · 9k+ votes
      2d

      @Scott Fleming one the tenant is evicted, recommend yanking the furnace & HWH ASAP, so they don't get stolen.

      Obviously, there will be a fee for that, but WAY cheaper than replacing the mechanicals.

      You'll also want to winterize the property.

      Challenge will be getting work done to rent it again.

      We leave the electricity on and have handymen and contractors that bring their own propane heaters as needed.

      DM me the address and I'll give you brutally honest feedback.

    • Long Beach, CA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
      1d

      @Drew Sygit , I just tried to connect with you so I can send a DM. Let's talk becaus eI could use some advise.

      Thanks.

  • Specialist · NJ · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 661 votes
    2d

    Try to list it and start fresh. I can't believe some people actually paid that 5k upfront fee they had at the start. It's crazy then I was told that if they found the house for you, even if it was MLS then they charged you like $500 plus that crazy 497/month which I don't think anyone ever knew what is was for.

    That business model of creating referral partners to handle needed facets like GC work or an agent, what have you, that os risky. I dabbled in it a little thinking that if you handed someone business they would respect it and live up to their commitment and they don't and when they don't it is a reflection on the one who referred them. So your image is in the hands of others at all times. There's lots of bad actors out there, and there is good people who just can't get the work done so you can get burned on both ends.

    They were recklessly and irresponsibly just creating these losing scenarios and selling them like they were gold. Much like the default swaps on wall street back in 2008. They were packaging things together and they don't even know what the pieces are. Recipe for disaster then, recipe for disaster now.

    I have no idea how their doors are even open. Bad reviews and testimonials everywhere on them.

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