Fortune Builders Refund Policy

Fortune Builders Refund Policy

Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes

My story on Fortune Builders refund policy.
I went to a three day seminar. We did due diligence before we went and tried to find out as much as possible about them. (Had a hard time finding reviews). We decided to go into the bronze Mastery program for a total cost of nearly $15,000. We left all amped out and excited. Later in the evening that we got home i again tried to find reviews especially negative ones to see what we were in for. There were a few reviews that caught my attention and then they were later retracted and practically praising Fortune Builders. This actually made me feel a little ill at ease, like maybe they were coerced into writing a retraction. I terminated my contract the very next morning and cancelled my check. That is when the fun started. I went through their exit interview where they tried to sell me on the program at a cheaper price. I just answered all their questions with "I decline to answer that". They told me I needed to sign 2 papers that they will email me in order to get a refund and cancel my contract. First one I had to sign was a request for refund. On that document they state "This form is A REQUEST FOR REFUND ONLY- NOT AN APPROVAL!" , capitalized just as written, in bold letters, highlighted in yellow and punctuated with an exclamation point. Therefore you are not guaranteed any refund (even though they say they have a 14 day refund policy with some conditions which I could write a whole reply just on that).

The second paper they sent me that must be signed in order to be considered for a refund was a Mutual Non-Disparagement / Confidentiality Agreement / Liquidated Damages document. Which seems hardly to a mutual benefit. The document simply put, says that (if you sign it and if you want them to consider refunding your money you must sign it) you may not disparage or criticize them, their program, their employees, agents etc.. or otherwise say or do anything that could disrupt their business. (now this brings into focus about reviews of companies. Reviews are critiques or criticism) therefore people who have signed this CANNOT give feedback or reviews without FEAR of penalty.

The Confidentiality Clause (if you sign it) states you cannot disclose and keep factual allegations to yourself. If you received your money back, how much of it you received and even if you do not receive money back you must keep that confidential. Most Confidentiality clauses are made at the time of the meeting of the minds and an agreement has been made, not before the agreement has been made. So this should not be signed at the time of the request but at the end of the agreement itself.
I would like to state profoundly that this in my opinion is bullying and coercion making people give up their Constitutional Rights of Free Speech and Freedom of Press. This does not allow people to do due diligence in researching this company.

Now the third part of this document (if signed) is Liquidated Damages Clause that states for every violation in the Non-disparagement and confidentiality clauses there will be $5,000 per violation. None of this benefits you therefore it is not mutual. it is in my opinion a way to bully or coerce people into not saying or printing the truth. That right there may give you pause and make you think twice.

Also Fortune Builders may be on the Inc. Magazine top 500 of fastest growing companies, but think, it is Fortune Builders, not CT homes(the flipping business) that seems to be making the money. If I was bringing in $15,000 to $25,000 times 50 people on average or more per event I would be damn wealthy too. When they use A&E Flip this House and CT Homes and combine it with Fortune Builders (a separate company) remember it is a marketing ploy to enhance the image that you too can be Inc. 500 next business.

I cannot say if the program works or not. I don't feel you can do due diligence in researching this company. So Buyer Beware. There are good coaches and other programs find one that fits your budget without hurting your life or lifestyle.

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Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 36 posts · 32 votes
12y

I've actually been through the program, got suckered into the $25,000.

There is some solid content, they have solid business systems that they provide. Though, most of their acquisition strategies aren't fit for my market in San Jose, but they did get me to where I am.

I wouldn't say there's no value in their material, but I definitely will stand by to say that it isn't worth 25,000. There's more than enough content on BP to get started and 100x better support community to help you move forward.

The biggest downfall -- the coaching and "hand holding" that they pitched was complete BS. Once a week coaching calls with someone that was not necessarily in your market (I had a coach in the East Coast, and another in Washington).

All in all... there are better alternatives. Networking, finding a mentor, getting plugged in to BP, and reading a few books could get you just as far.

See this reply in the discussion

48 Replies

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  • Real Estate Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 173 posts · 18 votes
    13y

    Great Article, a lot of hidden information. Did you finally get your refund Monique Walker?

  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    13y

    WOW... I had entertained the thought of utilizing their program last year when they came to my area but decided ney after the initial conference....just a feeling idk.

    Many of these huge so-called mentoring REI houses have that tactic to bully you into signing on with them for tens of thousands with false propaganda of how easy it is to cancel should you choose to within an allotted timeframe but once you do want to cancel its suddenly a few thousands cheaper (even though it was offered at that price you originally agreed to pay for only the first 25 or 100 people that signed up that day) and you need an exit contract attorney to get a dime back even if it was just one day after you signed up.

    I've learned to steer clear of those type of programs and prefer to have someone hands on that I can meet in person if and when needed. Understanding defamation of character or corporation being an issue, even confidentiality to a degree yet if you haven't done anything immoral indecent or illegal it shouldn't be an issue. You have to wonder about a company that hinders truth of their clientele no matter if its good or bad.

    Kudos,
    Mary

  • Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    13y

    Don't worry about me. I rescinded contract on my own terms. I let them know I would use my constitutional rights if they did not rescind my contract. I had no money on the line since I had put a stop payment on my check the very next day. But is my mission now to warn the public of shady contract and refund policy of Fortune Builders. I cannot attest if this program works or not, but judging by their hidden refund policy, I would venture they have something to hide that they don't want the investing public to know about. In their seminar they preached transparency and yet they do not follow their own rules. The most that I am out is the $297.00 for the three day seminar, a 50th birthday I can not get back, $30.00 for a cancelled check fee and $20.00 to send their educational materials back to them. I am one of the lucky ones. I did not sign their forms, therefore my freedom of speech and press are intact.

  • Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
    13y

    They sound like timeshare salesman. I went to one years ago for the free tv I didn't get. I think the name "Fortune Builders" is honestly laughable. I'd be skeptical as hell. I am naturally.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    13y

    This sounds like a very poor company to do business with. Have you checked with the BBB? Have you checked with government authorities? IMO, if they are scamming people they need to be exposed.

  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    13y

    @Brian
    You hit it on the head there. Timeshare sellers are probably where those REI mentoring programs adopt their policies from....

    Kudos,
    Mary

  • Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    13y

    John, we did check out Better Business Bureau everything looked fine, until I saw the 20/20 investigative report on BBB and their pay for play. The BBBin Southern California has been shut down and a new corporation has taken over the duties of the BBB. I wish I could find an attorney pro-bono that could look into for others sake. I am trying my best to expose this company if they are indeed as immoral as I feel they may well be. Though I am not sure they are breaking the law. I do believe that anyone who looks them up and reviews on them are probably only getting a very small portion of the reviews which is a downfall for the consumer. So I will continue to youtube about them and write what I do know as factual as well as my opinions until I can find out if litigation can be taken against them.

  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    13y

    I've had not so good experiences with BBB recommended companies. If no one reports a complaint the BBB will give a good score. Yet unreported doesn't mean its a grade A company and with those confidentiality contracts there won't be any reporting allowed. ripoffreport.com can be helpful...

    Kudos,
    Mary

  • Lender · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2013 · 496 posts · 296 votes
    13y

    I went to the 3 day event, got free tickets. I went knowing it would be an upsell event, but I was hoping to learn some new things about marketing and flipping. Boy, do they lay it on thick! It was 90% upsell and motivation, 10% content. They were pushing every emotional and psychological button in the book. It was horrible to sit through. But the crowd was eating it up.

    I needed a shower after each day. Ick.

    Dusseldorf Declines!

  • Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, MN · Member since 2010 · 511 posts · 92 votes
    13y

    $15,000 crazy stuff

  • Rockford, IL · Member since 2013 · 330 posts · 62 votes
    13y

    It is irrespective whether they would honor their 14-day policy. Federal law allows the consumer three days to cancel the contract without penalty.

  • Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    13y

    Mary, I have sent a report to ripoff report as well as a couple youtube videos. One video even challenges Than Merrill to an interview with me or an open forum. I would like to know what he thinks of our Constitution and the practices of the company. I would like to give him a chance to prove his company is not a guru scam and that it benefits more people than it takes away from. I am open minded but I am also savvy (most of the time).

  • Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    13y

    Edward, I used the 3 day rescission law to get out of my contract. But just to let you know i looked up the law preceding using it and found out that not all contracts can be rescinded by this law. So if a person thinks they have three days to get out of any contract that is false advice.

    Now to the business at hand. This evening I was contacted by a Fortune Builders representative who told me my case was an isolated incident. At this point I don't by it, but in all fairness to Fortune Builders Company I have felt it only right to print it. Tomorrow I am expecting a call back from Than Merrill for an interview because they would like to clear this up. They also invited me down to check out their operation which have graciously accepted. I will not print a retraction unless I am completely satisfied that they are not asking people to give up their constitutional rights of free speech and press. I will neither print something that is vicious and spiteful so if they prove to me that this is an isolated incident, which at this time I hold reservations to,I will print a retraction with one exception I will keep in the part of the actual situation of the Mutual Non-Disparagement, Confidentiality Agreement and Liquidated damages. That way if anyone else finds themselves in this same isolated incident they will know not to sign it and have a representative agreement to dismiss it. Know that any Non-Disparagment clause will silence all or part of your rights and you should make sure it is of Mutual Benefit. That any Confidentiality clause should be made after or at the time an agreement has been made or reached, not before one has been reached, That Liquidated Damages clause must be accepted in Advance and be part of the contract. If you are asked to sign such a contract just to be considered or as a part of a request for consideration / refund it is probably better not to sign it ask to speak to someone higher up in the company and if that doesn't get you anywhere seek legal advice. There are plenty of attorneys that would do pro-bono (free) work for principles or to help make a name for themselves.

  • Property Manager · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 34 posts · 10 votes
    13y

    These guys were on a show called Flip This House and frankly, the renovation work that they did was terrible. The quality of the work was terrible, the design was horrendous, and they seemed to have no clue on how to manage a project. Just look at the colors that they ended up picking...ugly.

    I can't believe people give money to these guys to teach them. Flipping houses isn't rocket science. It just takes time and hard work. You buy a house, hire contractors to fix it up, and then sell it.

  • Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Mary B.:
    I've had not so good experiences with BBB recommended companies. If no one reports a complaint the BBB will give a good score. Yet unreported doesn't mean its a grade A company and with those confidentiality contracts there won't be any reporting allowed. ripoffreport.com can be helpful...

    Kudos,
    Mary

    The BBB is a scam. They've approached me several times, its a couple of hundred dollars a year. Their claim to me is its great marketing, nothing to do with consumer protection. If you don't pay or aren't a member, they don't give a rip about you. They won't put you in there with good or bad reviews cause then it's free advertising to the company. As long as the company makes some reasonable attempt to remedy the problem and not necessarily to the customer's satisfaction, it doesn't ruin the companys reputation or grading. The trick is to wear the customer out with endless emails and through the BBB site, don't call them names or threaten them and you will maintain your rating. Your best source of services or providers is still through friends and family referrals. I prefer a referral over a website or phone book call anyday. Half my job is done getting the job before I ever set foot in the door. The other methods have a lot of time wasting price shopping tire kickers.

  • Jimmy MoncriefPro Member
    Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2010 · 319 posts · 100 votes
    13y

    Monique Walker Glad you aren't out $15K!

    I just bought a home for $15K, that has a renter in it that pays $550/month!!!

  • Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    13y

    I would like to take a moment to address what Brian had commented about BBB. 20/20 had done an investigative report on the BBB doing pay for play (if you get a chance look it up, They apparently gave a A+ rating to a known terrorist group). They have apparently been completely shut down here in Southern California with a new corporation taking over their duties.

  • Real Estate Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 173 posts · 18 votes
    13y

    Jesse Rivera, like you I went to the three day event, there was a lot of upsell and emotional content. It kind of wetted my whistle, but gave me no real content to start my journey. I did not sign any contracts for additional training, because I felt it was too expensive.

  • Paso Robles, CA · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    13y

    As I am, I believe, a woman of high integrity, I felt it necessary to update the public on what has transpired since yesterday when I posted my original topic for this forum. Last night I was contacted by a gentleman who identified himself as Paul from Fortune Builders, who assured me this was an isolated case. My reply to him was that I did not believe it. But as I said I am woman of integrity, so we set up an interview with Than Merrill (hereto shall be referred to as Mr. Merrill, both out of respect and the fact we do not have a person attachment/relationship) to clear up this so called cloud.Well Mr. Merrill did indeed call me for that interview. I will not go into any of the actual questions or answers due to the fact that the interview lasted one and a half hours. I will state that he was pleasant and accommodating. This by no means that I am retracting what has transpired.

    I had questions on the validity of the actual Fortune Builders programs and he directed me to the Fortune Builders website for some free classes and information. As I promised him, I took some time to check it out and found there is some possibly informative videos and useful information. The reason I state "possibly" is for me some of the information was beneficial and to some this information may not be of any benefit. As I have stated before I do not attest to if the program works or to, since I opted out before I started any classes. I need to be fair to both the public and to a company that has the right by our Constitution the right to make money. For some people this Free information may be of use to you and for others it may not. It is up to you, the public, individually, to do due diligence to decide for yourselves.

    Now as to the question of them asking me to give up my Constitutional Rights in the form of a Mutual Non-Disparagement / Confidentiality Agreement / Liquidated Damages document (which I refused to sign). Mr.Merrill admitted that it should not have been sent out to me. I informed him that I would continue to suggest that anyone who receives this and is told that they must sign it as a stipulation for the Request for Refund and before any actual agreement in writing has been made should first contact him (Mr. Merrill) personally, before signing it. He has agreed to be contacted. I also asked him to please find out if this is indeed an isolated incident by reaching out on these websites and find out if there are any other folks , like me, that were asked to sign this agreement as a part of their Request for Refund before or as a stipulation in order to be considered or get a refund, and that he will work with them to rescind this agreement. He acknowledged the need to make a statement. As to what he will write, i am not him, therefore I cannot put any statement down on how he plans to handle this. Since I have such regards for Our Constitution and our Justice System, I will state that a man or a Company is innocent until proven guilty by facts not opinions. So let us give Mr. Merrill a chance to rebut.

    Lastly, what I would like to present, is how we write reviews and how they affect us. Writing a review that is hostile or insulting is counterproductive and seems often the reason for Non-Disparagement clauses. By sticking to facts, putting in personal statements (i.e. The product didn't seem to work for me, I was unable to make money doing this, in my opinion, I cannot attest to if it works or not or this is my personal opinion/position), would be constructive as well as informative to the Public. Also asking questions or making subtle statements in a review may become thought provoking and may encourage people to research and search out the truth for themselves. This is a great way to get your point across without becoming hostile or disparaging. Also try not to be sarcastic (which I sometimes have subtle sarcasm to me). Remember Not to make statements that seem like facts that are not truly actual and provable. This will keep you out of litigation for slander.

    I believe in the American Public and believe we can find good and bad in everyone. Maybe if we took some time to give constructive criticism we may all benefit and become greater people as well as greater consumers.

    I hoped this helps someone and as I have said Buyer Beware, do your homework and protect yourself

  • Real Estate Professional · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2012 · 319 posts · 167 votes
    13y

    Wow Monique, that really sounds like someone threatened to sue you. I would not touch FB with a 10 foot pole. I have only read bad stories of all of these gurus. I'll admit no direct knowledge, so I guess this can't be slander but maybe they will call me to threaten me as well?

  • Torrance, CA · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    12y

    I had bad experience with FB as well. I paid $1500 for training materials + 3 day bootcamp in San Diego. The material by Than Merrill is decent.

    The bootcamp is a complete waste of my time. It took us probably 3 hours to line up to get the worthless certificate. The rest are jut upsale. I already heard many of the speakers for free. Some people paid $30K to be part of their mastery program. I don't know how they can bear this torture more than once. Lots of time filling activities that were useless for us. They even dared to use us to promote their company on Facebook & Google.

    The Flipping seminar was very basic. Paul showed a few slides about how he managed his book using Quickbook. You could not learn anything from it. Off course, he said we will learn more in Mastery program. The secret to find a contractor was to use AngieList. Who does not know AngieList? My biggest loss was my valuable time. If I knew what I got into, I would not go even if they paid me $1500.

    When I heard Than Merril for the first time, he was an honest man. But this time, he made verbal promise that he had no intention to fulfill. He said, if we signed up, we will have access to RealFlow for free. When I tried to claim this, it just went to their ticketing system and the person who helped me just played dumb. I googled and some people in different states experienced similar problem. He promised different thing, but similar approach. They couldn't claim the verbal promise and couldn't reach him.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y
    I think it was on the news last week where a lady order something from a company, and they were late shipping it and she post negative remarks on the Internet about the business, and they bill the amount in the agreement, and she refuses to pay, and they wreck her credit, and now she is crying because she did not follow the terms of services. I think the consumer should read the fine print. Most business will have a clause in their agreement subject to UCC filing.

    Joe Gore

  • Contractor · Worcester, MA · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    I find it curious that there is very little negative info on them on the web, even Mother Theresa who was a saint had detractors especially on the web.

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y
    I cannot believe how many people will fall for the Fortune Builders scam.

    Joe Gore

  • Real Estate Investor · Webster, TX · Member since 2013 · 33 posts · 22 votes
    12y

    I attended a "workshop" a few months ago when they came to Houston. It was amazing how fast people were ready to sign up for the so-called mastery program. They really didn't cover anything I hadn't known before. I would say there was about three hours of okayish info spread over two and a half days. The last half of the third day was nothing but trying to make people feel bad for not signing up.

    If anything, I learned what junk they were spewing as well as their version of shop-talk (which really was not too different than what you'd hear in a high school locker room). Now that I know what to listen for when I'm working with other investors, I know to politely run in the opposite direction when I hear it.

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