Center City Las Vegas

Center City Las Vegas

Real Estate Investor · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 547 posts · 214 votes

Havent seen any talk about this development, with the biggest part set to open just a month away. What's your thoughts on this, New best hotel or a bust? Seems like the approx 7000 new hotel rooms could put a huge damper on the rest of the hotels, including its sister hotel the MGM grand. Seems like the 200+ condos are still selling in this down market, for a whoping 1.7mil each
The 12000 new jobs it will be offering sure seem like it will help there local economy.
around 17 million square feet makes it the biggest property on the strip.
Claims to be the largest privately financed development in the United States. I just dont see it as being anything super special. Whats your thoughts?
Might be time to buy MGM stock!
-Scott
Also shows much developing can actually cost alot more then you plan, orignally set at a 4 billion dollar project ending up costing around 11 billion, and thats with losing 25 storys on one of the hotels!
-Scott

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Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
17y

FYI – City Center condos have had significant price reductions. That includes condos that were already under contract. The City Center project had been touted as the savior of Las Vegas for a couple of years until recently. Now the fear is that the project is just going to siphon tourists away from existing properties. The thing is that MGM owns a large portion of the strip hotels so they are, in effect, competing with themselves.

Another note: The media likes to make it sound like Vegas tourism has slowed to a trickle. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is down about 10% based on passenger count at McCarran airport. Instead of 36 million people coming in (3 million a month) it is down to about 32-33 million. That’s still a huge number and the strip is still packed with tourists every weekend. The problem is that the strip properties have over-leveraged themselves to such a degree that they are losing money. They need to operate a maximum capacity and had raised prices to such a degree before the recession just to make a profit. Now they’ve been forced to lower prices and that is killing their bottom line. It wasn’t that long ago that Vegas was one of the best travel bargains around. That started to change when the mega-resorts started popping up.

:cool:

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    17y

    In anything, I think its time to short MGM. This development is wrapped up in legal trouble, quality issues, and lawsuits from their Middle Eastern investors who have their own money troubles.

    MGM owns much more than the MGM grand. They own the entire west side of the strip from Luxor to Treasure Island. except Caesar's. That's Luxor, New York New York, Monte Carlo, Bellagio, Mirage, and Treasure Island, plus their namesake MGM Grand. They may own Mandalay Bay, too, I can't recall. I can't see these new rooms helping room rates. I'm not a high roller and don't get free rooms on the strip, but I've had e-mails in the last few days from numerous Vegas hotels with $30-40 weekday room rates.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    17y

    http://www.thestar.com/business/article/719540--rebuilding-las-vegas

    Timing the RE or economic cycles on a project this big is impossible.

  • Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
    17y

    FYI – City Center condos have had significant price reductions. That includes condos that were already under contract. The City Center project had been touted as the savior of Las Vegas for a couple of years until recently. Now the fear is that the project is just going to siphon tourists away from existing properties. The thing is that MGM owns a large portion of the strip hotels so they are, in effect, competing with themselves.

    Another note: The media likes to make it sound like Vegas tourism has slowed to a trickle. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is down about 10% based on passenger count at McCarran airport. Instead of 36 million people coming in (3 million a month) it is down to about 32-33 million. That’s still a huge number and the strip is still packed with tourists every weekend. The problem is that the strip properties have over-leveraged themselves to such a degree that they are losing money. They need to operate a maximum capacity and had raised prices to such a degree before the recession just to make a profit. Now they’ve been forced to lower prices and that is killing their bottom line. It wasn’t that long ago that Vegas was one of the best travel bargains around. That started to change when the mega-resorts started popping up.

    :cool:

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y

    and now, once again, it is a value travel spot! Rooms are often free if you get a players card and even if you are paying, the discounted room rates are a steal!

    Vegas is not far off from recovery in my opinion. Granted, the hotels are hurting due to the overleveraging, but that too will be corrected through the commercial meltdowns.

  • Real Estate Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2009 · 660 posts · 244 votes
    17y
    FYI – City Center condos have had significant price reductions. That includes condos that were already under contract. The City Center project had been touted as the savior of Las Vegas for a couple of years until recently. Now the fear is that the project is just going to siphon tourists away from existing properties. The thing is that MGM owns a large portion of the strip hotels so they are, in effect, competing with themselves.

    Another note: The media likes to make it sound like Vegas tourism has slowed to a trickle. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is down about 10% based on passenger count at McCarran airport. Instead of 36 million people coming in (3 million a month) it is down to about 32-33 million. That’s still a huge number and the strip is still packed with tourists every weekend. The problem is that the strip properties have over-leveraged themselves to such a degree that they are losing money. They need to operate a maximum capacity and had raised prices to such a degree before the recession just to make a profit. Now they’ve been forced to lower prices and that is killing their bottom line. It wasn’t that long ago that Vegas was one of the best travel bargains around. That started to change when the mega-resorts started popping up.


    Couldn't agree more with Richard's analysis ... City Center will probably fare ok by taking business away from other properties since it's the newest and biggest thing in town. I've been to Vegas 3 times in the last six months ... always appears to be tons of people. Before the downfall, I think the casinos were in a constant race of building the biggest (and most expensive) place to attract new visitors and as a result became massively overleveraged so when things slowed down, they got caught. Now, they are fighting to stay afloat til the economy recovers by offering great deals to anyone willing to visit. I usually get a room for free ($39 at most) and I'm no high roller! :D

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y

    Since this is such a hot spot and attraction to all, we BP Nation and company) will be working on setting up a BP event here, hopefully early next year!

  • Financial Advisor · Tampa Area, FL · Member since 2008 · 956 posts · 214 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jon Holdman:
    In anything, I think its time to short MGM. This development is wrapped up in legal trouble, quality issues, and lawsuits from their Middle Eastern investors who have their own money troubles.

    MGM owns much more than the MGM grand. They own the entire west side of the strip from Luxor to Treasure Island. except Caesar's. That's Luxor, New York New York, Monte Carlo, Bellagio, Mirage, and Treasure Island, plus their namesake MGM Grand. They may own Mandalay Bay, too, I can't recall. I can't see these new rooms helping room rates. I'm not a high roller and don't get free rooms on the strip, but I've had e-mails in the last few days from numerous Vegas hotels with $30-40 weekday room rates.


    MGM recently sold TI (FKA treasure island) to phil ruffin for about $750 million in cash. it's no longer owned by MGM. Mandalay Bay is however.

    I am a huge fan of mgm (as they comp me nicely for my twice a year trips). i am not, however, a fan of their stock. the legal issues along with the $10 BILLION property they are erecting is going to get very sticky.

    fwiw, i am with rich. vegas is not the ghost town the media would like u to think it is. i was out there last month and stayed at the mgm grand and it was at 97% capacitiy (i saw the internal only daily sheet on a desk). 97% capacitiy is pretty damn good for a 5000+ room resort! the casinos were packed and the strip was as well. i would say though that the more fancy restaurants were a bit easier to get into.

    also, i received my vip package offer for the opening of aria (city center hotel) and unfortunately won't be able to make it next month. i am very happy to see that it will be opening though as the construction was such an eyesore! that place is HUUUGGE! i still can't believe they are having an elvis themed cirque du soleil show....ugh! no thank u!

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    17y

    At the risk of taking the thread off track, maybe it will be OK. I though the Love show would be crummy, but got a deal on the tickets, and I really liked it. I've not seen all the cirque shows but I'd have to say its my favorite.

    I'd agree the place is not dead. I was there for a couple of trade shows earlier in the year and the place was still pretty busy. Not as busy as previous visits, but certainly not a ghost town.

    I would be up for a get together there if we can plan it out a little. Yours just came up too quick, Jon.
  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y

    "I would be up for a get together there if we can plan it out a little. Yours just came up too quick, Jon."

    Sorry, I just piggy backed it onto an IT conference next week.

    City Center should be open next month, so maybe that's the place to do the next one so we can see the latest and greatest development.

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