Setting up Entity for Flipping in California - Writeoffs, expenses, tax, liability.

Setting up Entity for Flipping in California - Writeoffs, expenses, tax, liability.

Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes

Hi I'm setting up an entity for flipping in California.  I was only planning on maybe 1-2 flips by the end of this year (so far there are 0 and next year may be more)

I've seen different ideas as to this as I'm a small size operation and currently have no recent flips.  Anyone have recommendations on what I should do based on my size?

Currently my rental properties are under sole-proprietorship with heavy general and rental liability insurance.

Also, as far as everyday expenses are other flippers just writing off all expenses pertaining to the flip- even prior to flip?  These include marketing, and pre-flip costs (ink, yellow letters, mailers, gas designers, consultants, education-books etc).  I plan on writing off all rehab expenses during the flip.  I've read that since taxation is high for flipping,  it's best to take advantage of as many write-offs as possible.

As far as separating the entity from my personal, would it make sense to just open a credit card and bank account with the entity (likely S-Corp) and charge everything to that?  A family member of mine is financing 90% of my deal as well, and we were going to split the NET profit's 50-50.

What are benefits and negatives of each entity as far as taxation and liability?  I've read that with incompetence or mixing expenses any entity may be pierced. (also, I'm in California where LLCs cost $800/ year)

Thank you all in advance!

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Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
12y

@Will F. The tax issues vary from state to state to a large extent, so a CPA or tax accountant would be your best adviser on this topic. Marketing and training can be written off, yes.

I will tell you from experience one thing I learned about it. Set up the business entity, whatever your CPA says. Mine is a LLC taxed as a S-Corp, but it might be different for you. But, set up a solo 401K if you have no full time employees, and put lots of pre-tax and post tax dollars into it. It is a great way to get your retirement set up, and you can cut those taxes significantly.

I used Sense Financial, Dmitry here on BP is great, and I am sure there are others that would do it well also.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
    12y

    @Will F. The tax issues vary from state to state to a large extent, so a CPA or tax accountant would be your best adviser on this topic. Marketing and training can be written off, yes.

    I will tell you from experience one thing I learned about it. Set up the business entity, whatever your CPA says. Mine is a LLC taxed as a S-Corp, but it might be different for you. But, set up a solo 401K if you have no full time employees, and put lots of pre-tax and post tax dollars into it. It is a great way to get your retirement set up, and you can cut those taxes significantly.

    I used Sense Financial, Dmitry here on BP is great, and I am sure there are others that would do it well also.

  • Investor · Los Angeles County, CA · Member since 2012 · 962 posts · 279 votes
    12y

    Yeah, my plan is to talk to my CPA. I'm not sure how many S-Corps/ LLCs he's done pertaining to Flipping though. But maybe he has some experience with that.

    Also,thanks for the advice on solo- 401k too. I had heard about that, and so far I'm mainly putting into my IRA.

  • Real Estate Investor · San Clemente, CA · Member since 2012 · 148 posts · 123 votes
    12y

    I'm not an accountant but for the most part feedback I have gotten is to use an S corp for flipping or like Walt said and LLC taxed as an S-corp. You want to avoid paying gross sales tax which is what can happen if you have an LLC taxed as an LLC. But yes talk to a CPA! :-) Good luck!

  • Encinitas, CA · Member since 2011 · 192 posts · 252 votes
    12y

    The details for the gross receipts tax for California LLCs can be found in the box on the second page of the following link:

    https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/misc/3556.pdf

  • Real Estate Investor · Lake Oswego, OR · Member since 2014 · 64 posts · 29 votes
    12y

    Check out  http://markjkohler.com/ and http://www.entrepreneur.com/video/231928

    (I have no affiliation)

    If your CPA isn't intimately familiar with this I would find one that is. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Sebastian, FL · Member since 2014 · 812 posts · 432 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Will F.:

    Yeah, my plan is to talk to my CPA. I'm not sure how many S-Corps/ LLCs he's done pertaining to Flipping though. But maybe he has some experience with that.

    Also,thanks for the advice on solo- 401k too. I had heard about that, and so far I'm mainly putting into my IRA.

    If you want you can roll the IRA money into the solo 401k. One advantage to a 401k vs. Self Directed IRA is that you can get loans (non-recourse) without being taxed (UBTI for the IRA).

    @Dmitriy Fomichenko  can better explain the benefits.

  • Investor · North Idaho · Member since 2011 · 332 posts · 107 votes
    12y

    Walt is right about UDFI but that won't really apply to flips. Flips will ultimately get you classified as a dealer or business and operating business income in an IRA or 401k will be subject to UBTI.

    I second that an Individual(k) or Solo 401(k) "same thing" is the ultimate plan for flexibility and benefits.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    12y

    @Walt Payne thanks for the mention!

    @Will F. I recently wrote an article here on BP blog about benefits of the Solo 401 K so if you wish to learn more you can find it . But Loren is correct, flipping activity will result in UBIT.

  • Rehabber / Flipper · Simi Valley, CA · Member since 2010 · 597 posts · 259 votes
    12y

    Hi, @Will F. 

    Marketing costs, education, and other non-property-specific expenses are deducted as business expenses.  They are not assigned as costs for the rehab.  If they are legitimate business expenses, you can still deduct them, they just don't get associated with a property.  Your account will know how to deal with that stuff.  I recommend getting set up with something like QuickBooks and working with your accountant to define a chart of accounts that makes sense for your flipping business.

    Taxation isn't high for flipping.  You are just taxed on your income like everybody else.  As your income increases, your tax rate goes up.  Also, you will have to pay self employment taxes, so that makes it more painful, but that's the same for any business you own.  Again, speak to your accountant.

    You should absolutely have a separate bank account (and credit card if you can) for your business.  Your accountant should also be advising you on this.

    It sounds like you haven't spoken to an accountant about any of this stuff.  Do so.

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