General Liability Insurance for House-flipping LLC

General Liability Insurance for House-flipping LLC

Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 2 votes

My wife and I are flipping houses in the Pittsburgh area, and have set up an LLC for this. We also are required to register the LLC with the Attorney General's Office as a Home Improvement Contractor in order to meet the requirements for the State Workers Insurance Fund to provide worker's compensation insurance for our one potential employee. To register as a Home Improvement Contractor, general liability insurance is required.

The problem we are running into is that finding general liability insurance for a house-flipping LLC is seemingly impossible. No one wants to do this.

I can find general liability insurance, no problem, if the LLC is simply a renovation business.

Are we better off designating the LLC as a home improvement or renovation business that we use solely for the homes we purchase ourselves, and then paying the LLC from the proceeds of the sale, or as the work is completed?

Is there some easier way to fulfill the requirements stated above?

We perform any renovations that don't require any license or certification beyond meeting code requirements. 

We hire out for jobs like roofing, electrical, some plumbing, and any major structural work.

Any advice is appreciated!

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Jason BottPro Member
Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jason Delaney:

My wife and I are flipping houses in the Pittsburgh area, and have set up an LLC for this. We also are required to register the LLC with the Attorney General's Office as a Home Improvement Contractor in order to meet the requirements for the State Workers Insurance Fund to provide worker's compensation insurance for our one potential employee. To register as a Home Improvement Contractor, general liability insurance is required.

The problem we are running into is that finding general liability insurance for a house-flipping LLC is seemingly impossible. No one wants to do this.

I can find general liability insurance, no problem, if the LLC is simply a renovation business.

Are we better off designating the LLC as a home improvement or renovation business that we use solely for the homes we purchase ourselves, and then paying the LLC from the proceeds of the sale, or as the work is completed?

Is there some easier way to fulfill the requirements stated above?

We perform any renovations that don't require any license or certification beyond meeting code requirements. 

We hire out for jobs like roofing, electrical, some plumbing, and any major structural work.

Any advice is appreciated!

Jason, your not the first and wont be the last to run into this issue. As you suggest above, you are better off having 2 entities. 1 remodeling LLC and another that holds the property.

The contracting LLC should handle all construction, and be a subcontractor of the the Flipping LLC. The Flipping LLC buys the Property and General Liability coverage for the buildings you will be flipping.

The issue with the standard General Liability policy the "Products and Competed operations" section.  This part of the policy will respond to any work you did not the past.  So on the flips, you could be brought back into a claim on Mold, leaky roof, etc.  The standard GL policy is not priced to take on those large claims, so they just decline to offer an option.

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  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason Delaney:

    My wife and I are flipping houses in the Pittsburgh area, and have set up an LLC for this. We also are required to register the LLC with the Attorney General's Office as a Home Improvement Contractor in order to meet the requirements for the State Workers Insurance Fund to provide worker's compensation insurance for our one potential employee. To register as a Home Improvement Contractor, general liability insurance is required.

    The problem we are running into is that finding general liability insurance for a house-flipping LLC is seemingly impossible. No one wants to do this.

    I can find general liability insurance, no problem, if the LLC is simply a renovation business.

    Are we better off designating the LLC as a home improvement or renovation business that we use solely for the homes we purchase ourselves, and then paying the LLC from the proceeds of the sale, or as the work is completed?

    Is there some easier way to fulfill the requirements stated above?

    We perform any renovations that don't require any license or certification beyond meeting code requirements. 

    We hire out for jobs like roofing, electrical, some plumbing, and any major structural work.

    Any advice is appreciated!

    Jason, your not the first and wont be the last to run into this issue. As you suggest above, you are better off having 2 entities. 1 remodeling LLC and another that holds the property.

    The contracting LLC should handle all construction, and be a subcontractor of the the Flipping LLC. The Flipping LLC buys the Property and General Liability coverage for the buildings you will be flipping.

    The issue with the standard General Liability policy the "Products and Competed operations" section.  This part of the policy will respond to any work you did not the past.  So on the flips, you could be brought back into a claim on Mold, leaky roof, etc.  The standard GL policy is not priced to take on those large claims, so they just decline to offer an option.

  • Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    I would still need a general liability policy for the contracting LLC in order to register as a Home Improvement Contractor with the AG's office though, correct?

    In essence, I'd need two separate policies for this? 

  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason Delaney:

    I would still need a general liability policy for the contracting LLC in order to register as a Home Improvement Contractor with the AG's office though, correct?

    In essence, I'd need two separate policies for this? 

     Yes, 2 separate policies.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 19 votes
    7y

    @Jason Bott

    I am in Florida and we use one single LLC to buy and flip our homes. What would you recommend for liability insurance in this case?

  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Jason Bott

    I am in Florida and we use one single LLC to buy and flip our homes. What would you recommend for liability insurance in this case?

     Ryan, General Liability on the Property is what most flippers will do. 

    If you need to be licensed with the state or city, then it would be cleaner to set up a second LLC for the contracting portion.

    Does that answer your question?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 19 votes
    7y

    @Jason Bott

    I have a builders risk policy on each of the properties that we flip. However, I am looking for liability insurance/umbrella for the whole flipping business.

    I use an independent contractor agreement with a project manager who manages the flip project and handles the subs. If a sub does not have insurance and gets hurt on my property - I am liable. How do I protect myself against that situation?

    Thanks

  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Jason Bott

    I have a builders risk policy on each of the properties that we flip. However, I am looking for liability insurance/umbrella for the whole flipping business.

    I use an independent contractor agreement with a project manager who manages the flip project and handles the subs. If a sub does not have insurance and gets hurt on my property - I am liable. How do I protect myself against that situation?

    Thanks

     Ryan, there are insurance programs for flippers that bundle GL and Builders risk.  Not sure if they are currently offering in FL, but can check.

    In regards to your independent contractor, they should be carrying GL and Workers Compensation, listing you as an Additional Insured on both policies.  This will give you protection against those claims.

    If this project manager doesn’t want to buy the coverage, they you would need to buy the Workers Compensation to avoid the risk.

  • Specialist · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2017 · 418 posts · 126 votes
    7y

    @Jason Delaney we did this for another flipped with Markel. Feel free to reach out and I’d be glad to help. Was just in Pittsburgh for the weekend

  • Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 13 votes
    6y

    @Jason Bott I know this is old, but just came across it searching for answers that my agent couldn't answer or maybe I just didn't understand. I am a licensed GC I have general liability, but I was thinking of not renewing because I really do not work for customers anymore, only my flips and new construction. Can I just cancel my GL policy and obtain builders risk for my new construction and a single GL policy for each flip or should I just keep and renew the current GL policy? 2) On all my flips I do have a dwelling policy which has premise liability so do I even need general liability to cover my flips if I have premise liability? I flip and build all my houses under my construction company name. Thanks in advance!

    @Jason Bottundefined

  • Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Alex S.

    Unless there is something specific in GA, or your locality, if you are working on your own properties you shouldn’t need to register as a HiC. Other than what the law might say (albeit that is important), I look at it is if you are only working for yourself where is the liability? The Governemnt wants to make sure you have insurance in case your client sues you. If you are your own client, how can there a lawsuit?! That’s the short of it

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