Won't be able to get started for a while, but...

Won't be able to get started for a while, but...

Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes

Hey everyone. I hope all is well.

I've been reading as much as I can (which isn't as much as I'd like, but school comes first) here on the boards, and I've learned a good bit in that time. I would like to outline my basic plan for getting into real estate on this board. Hopefully, some of you seasoned veterans will either affirm my strategy or critique my methods.

I'm a 20 year old real estate appraiser, working for my dad. I've been in college for two-and-a-half years so far, but I've switched my major so many times that I still have 2-3 years left no matter what I choose. However, since I've gotten into real estate appraisal (I've been on my own for about 6 months), I've come to realize that I love the real estate industry. This realization helped me finally to decide to transfer to West Georgia University and pursue a degree in real estate. My current college doesn't offer a real estate degree, and I seem to have developed a subconscious hatred for this campus... I guess my years of confusion and indecision here have caused me to associate this school with hell.

Anyway, I have to take one accounting class before I can get into my real estate-related coursework. Once I get two RE classes out of the way, I'll be eligible to take the Real Estate Licensing test. Once I have my RE license, I hope to continue appraising. Hopefully by this time, I will have met an established REI that is willing to "take me under their wing", and teach me the ways of the millionaire.

Within the next three or four years, I hope to have enough saved up to buy my first deal (I want to have a large down payment available, so the loan-to-value ratio will be that much smaller). Initially, I would just like to buy a rehab house and rent it out. My first deal will be more about the experience than the profit itself, though more profit will obviously be welcome.

Sorry for such a long post, but I just wanted to get the basics of my plan out there for you all to read. Being a 20 year old college student, I don't have a lot of money and no credit to my name with which to get into the game as of yet. However, I do have something that lots of newbie investors don't have: time.

Please leave comments with any critiques you may have, as well as additional advice that you may want to give. Thanks a lot ahead of time!

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  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 9 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    I've been reading as much as I can (which isn't as much as I'd like, but school comes first) here on the boards, and I've learned a good bit in that time. I would like to outline my basic plan for getting into real estate on this board. Hopefully, some of you seasoned veterans will either affirm my strategy or critique my methods.
    Well enough is never enough so don't be too bad on yourself for there is all ways going to be time for you to learn and read more everyday!
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    I'm a 20 year old real estate appraiser, working for my dad. I've been in college for two-and-a-half years so far, but I've switched my major so many times that I still have 2-3 years left no matter what I choose. However, since I've gotten into real estate appraisal (I've been on my own for about 6 months), I've come to realize that I love the real estate industry. This realization helped me finally to decide to transfer to West Georgia University and pursue a degree in real estate. My current college doesn't offer a real estate degree, and I seem to have developed a subconscious hatred for this campus... I guess my years of confusion and indecision here have caused me to associate this school with hell.
    That is good and I know you will find what it is you need to do and where you need to be!
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    Anyway, I have to take one accounting class before I can get into my real estate-related coursework. Once I get two RE classes out of the way, I'll be eligible to take the Real Estate Licensing test. Once I have my RE license, I hope to continue appraising. Hopefully by this time, I will have met an established REI that is willing to "take me under their wing", and teach me the ways of the millionaire.
    Starting off as a real estate agent is all ways a good thing and there is no reason why you can't persue both being an agent an a appraiser!
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    Within the next three or four years, I hope to have enough saved up to buy my first deal (I want to have a large down payment available, so the loan-to-value ratio will be that much smaller). Initially, I would just like to buy a rehab house and rent it out. My first deal will be more about the experience than the profit itself, though more profit will obviously be welcome.
    It would sound like you have a very good idea and plan as to what you want to do. And I think you headed in the right direction as to where you want to go with REI.
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    Please leave comments with any critiques you may have, as well as additional advice that you may want to give. Thanks a lot ahead of time!
    The only thing I would have to say is: if your going to start off investing I would say to check out the rehabbing forum and do flips before you get into rentals! Thanks for your time and I do hope you find a good mentor in your area as I am sure may find on on biggerpockets!
  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Thanks for the encouragement, Loki... it's always nice to get advice from people who know what they're doing!

    Why do you think rehabbing is better for beginners?

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y

    Why get a RE license? As an appraiser you will already have access to the MLS data. If you want to be an investor then invest.

    Finish your degree so that is completed. Continue appraising to earn money, learn the local market and network.

    When you are done with school or before, buy a property that you can live in and rent out to others. Load the place up so that you have mininal expenses yet have a place you control.

    There are other ideas but the general direction does not change.

    John Corey

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "REI":
    Why get a RE license? As an appraiser you will already have access to the MLS data. If you want to be an investor then invest.

    I want to be an investor, but I also want to have a broad experience in the real estate market. I feel that appraising gives me a good idea of how to spot deals, but if I could work part time selling real estate, I would gain the experience of that facet of the industry.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 9 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "REI":
    Why get a RE license? As an appraiser you will already have access to the MLS data. If you want to be an investor then invest.
    I would have to agree with John on this one Kabong! If you are an agent it will restrick you from certain things that you would be able to do if you weren't an agent. I would say your best bet is to have a family member do your offers so as you will be protected.
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    Why do you think rehabbing is better for beginners?
    The reason I think it would be better to rehab first is it would be a lot easy for you and more profitable if done right! All you have to do is get these rehabs and find yourself a seasoned investor to show you the ropes. So you take a hit on the first two to three rehabs cause your giving away profit to the seasoned investor but what you learn will be priceless. Than you can start doing it yourself and with all the tips and tricks you learned you can max out your profits. Instead of grabing rentals which will take a while to build up money for your next project (assuming that it is positive cash-flow) you can move onto the next one from your profit of flipping! Think of it like this if I have positive cash-flow but I am only netting $500 a month it would take some time to start my new project. Now if I netted $25,000 to $50,000 I can just jump into the next project right a way and soon be able to handle multiple projects at one time. Thanks for your time and I can't wait to hear your feed back to see what you decided to do!
  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "loki005":
    Originally posted by "REI":
    Why get a RE license? As an appraiser you will already have access to the MLS data. If you want to be an investor then invest.
    I would have to agree with John on this one Kabong! If you are an agent it will restrick you from certain things that you would be able to do if you weren't an agent. I would say your best bet is to have a family member do your offers so as you will be protected.
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    Why do you think rehabbing is better for beginners?
    The reason I think it would be better to rehab first is it would be a lot easy for you and more profitable if done right! All you have to do is get these rehabs and find yourself a seasoned investor to show you the ropes. So you take a hit on the first two to three rehabs cause your giving away profit to the seasoned investor but what you learn will be priceless. Than you can start doing it yourself and with all the tips and tricks you learned you can max out your profits. Instead of grabing rentals which will take a while to build up money for your next project (assuming that it is positive cash-flow) you can move onto the next one from your profit of flipping! Think of it like this if I have positive cash-flow but I am only netting $500 a month it would take some time to start my new project. Now if I netted $25,000 to $50,000 I can just jump into the next project right a way and soon be able to handle multiple projects at one time. Thanks for your time and I can't wait to hear your feed back to see what you decided to do!

    I figured that with an RE license, I would have a better chance in meeting an REI mentor, since I would be able to work as a bird dog for them on the side. As far as I know, having a RE license will help with that... if I'm wrong, let me know! What kinds of things will having a license restrict me from doing? How else will it hurt me rather than help me?

    And about the flipping thing... I definitely like the idea of being able to profit $25,000 from a single deal. Of course, I don't expect to actually make this much on my first deal, but it's always good to have high hopes. Being an appraiser, I have a kind of dislike for flippers, only because flipped houses really screw up my comp selection when I'm appraising a house. However, if I could get in the position of the flipper itself, I'm sure I'd love it!

    I'm handy when working on a car, and was a mechanic for a couple of years. However, when it comes to home repair and that kind of handy work, I'm very inexperienced. Is it usually better to learn the skills of rehabbing on your own, or is it better to find a group of contractors that you trust to do the work for you? I don't particularly like manual labor, so I'd be willing to take a slight loss in profit in order to have it done for me.

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    I'll be honest, this is my 10th post and I'm only doing this one so I can post in the "Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc." forum.

    I hope that the mods here don't think that I'm post-whoring or anything like that. I hope to have shown you guys that I'm here for the long haul with the few posts that I've made so far.

    Thanks!

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y

    A license will place a lot of restrictions on your ability to flip deals. You really should not be buying and then quickly reselling if you are working with the seller as their agent. Even if you are not their agent it is hard to avoid the liability. One agent I know flips but he will not accept any commissions. With no commissions I wonder why have a license.

    If you want a mentor then just ask people. If you want to meet investors then network. Just having a licenses does not mean that you will meet investors. I meet investors all the time and I do not have a license.

    Most of what you will benefit from (knowing the market, access to the MLS) you already have as an appaiser. As a student being an agent can be tough as you do not control when you work.

    John Corey

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 9 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    I'll be honest, this is my 10th post and I'm only doing this one so I can post in the "Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc." forum.

    I hope that the mods here don't think that I'm post-whoring or anything like that. I hope to have shown you guys that I'm here for the long haul with the few posts that I've made so far.

    Thanks!

    (LOL) I did the same thing when I first joined but it was to post in the Bulk REO forum and boy was I in for a surprise! I got the interogation of a lifetime from ********** and did i feel like a jerk or what. But after that I realized that we are all here to help one another and I am doing the best that I can (which i hope is good enough), so don't beat yourself up too much for it. Thanks for your time and I can't wait to see what you post in the "make deals, find partners, mentors & birdDogs, etc." forum!
  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "REI":
    A license will place a lot of restrictions on your ability to flip deals. You really should not be buying and then quickly reselling if you are working with the seller as their agent. Even if you are not their agent it is hard to avoid the liability. One agent I know flips but he will not accept any commissions. With no commissions I wonder why have a license.

    If you want a mentor then just ask people. If you want to meet investors then network. Just having a licenses does not mean that you will meet investors. I meet investors all the time and I do not have a license.

    Most of what you will benefit from (knowing the market, access to the MLS) you already have as an appaiser. As a student being an agent can be tough as you do not control when you work.

    John Corey

    I'm still unclear as to why simply having a license will hurt me. I'm an appraiser right now, and could very possibly work as an appraiser for the rest of my life, while still doing REI deals on the side. However, my goal is to learn the real estate industry as a whole, while doing what I can to make money in the process. In my opinion, a real estate license will enable me to work as a bird dog, making commission on every referral that I do. Whatever I can do to pay my bills while still having some level of control over my schedule, I will try to do. From what I've read on here, I've interpreted that bird dogs have some control over when they work, am I incorrect?

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y

    Being a bird dog and having a license can be a good mix. If someone wants to be paid for deals completed where they are not a principal they better have a license. Translation: most bird dogs operate illegally.

    If you want to hunt down deals then consider just getting them under contact (sales agreement or an option). Then you can sell your position. You will likely earn a lot more than a licensed agent working as a birddog and you will lower costs (insurance, license, desk fee, Realtor fee, MLS fee)

    As b eing a bird dog will not earn you a lot per transaction find a broker where you can hang your license who does not expect you to produce much. Also look at the costs of having a license vs. what you think you can earn. A marginal income with high expenses will not help. One agent I know has a minimum that he has to pay the broker. It is $2,500. Mostly for liability insurance.

    You can learn a lot about the RE industry without a license. Based on the bulk of the agents out there many RE investors actually know more than the license holders. This is because the agents are mostly helping two parties do a vanilla deal while RE investors look for the more profitable situations. Most investors would laugh if all they expected to earn was 3% (1/2 of a full listing fee).

    If you want to get your license then all the power to you. Just because you do not see the conflicts does not mean they are not there. If you narrowly focus how you expect to use the license then maybe there is a purpose to having it. Many investors what to get a license so they can pay to acccess the MLS. As an appraiser you likely already have the right to pay to access the MLS.

    John Corey

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    That's exactly the type of answer I was hoping for -- I got sort of mixed signals from you when you posted in my thread in the "Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc." forum and this one.

    I now see that being an agent isn't really all that attractive of a job for an investor (no offense meant to agents, of course). I already have access to much of the stuff that would help me if I were an agent. Probably more so, since my stuff helps me find comps the right way. I'd be better off working as an appraiser "full-time", and doing investments on the side, at least while I learn.

    Your comments about getting them under contract would be considered wholesaling, correct? That option has always seemed kind of scary to me, and too much of a gamble. Throughout the wholesale process, is it generally pretty profitable, or are there lots of legal headaches to deal with?

    Thank you for your time and your informative post.

  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "El Kabong":
    Your comments about getting them under contract would be considered wholesaling, correct? That option has always seemed kind of scary to me, and too much of a gamble. Throughout the wholesale process, is it generally pretty profitable, or are there lots of legal headaches to deal with?

    Scary? Why?

    The biggest reason someone can not sell a property is because the price is wrong.

    If you are able to do comps correctly and really know values you will know the dogs from the diamonds. If you get a diamond under contract at a great price then why would it be risky to sell it? If you have a list of investor contacts who you know from prior deals or appraisals then you have a ready list of buyers who can recognize value and take action.

    FUD - Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt. That is mostly why a deal looks risky to one and is a no brainer to another.

    John Corey

    PS. Consider the 3 quotes below. That could also be why you thought the RE license was a good way to go as a newbie investor.

    "In the fields of observation chance favors only those minds which are prepared."
    Louis Pasteur

    "You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
    Mark Twain

    “We see things not as they are, but as we are.”
    Anthony de Mello

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    I definitely see your point. The "scary" part about it for me stems from the fact that I have yet to do much research on the wholesaling process. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

    From what I understand from the little that I've read about it, the wholesale process basically consists of myself (or whoever the wholesaler may be) finding a home that would be a good deal, and signing a sales contract. The contract would be in my name, so would my job then be to find an investor or regular buyer that wants to buy out my position in the sale?

    Where exactly does the profit come from? Are you basically signing a contract for a certain amount and then finding an investor to sign for a higher amount, and pocketing the difference? Or should the wholesaler have a set amount that they charge per deal for the different properties? I've visited a few websites related to Atlanta investing, that list properties based on asking price, repairs needed, and ARV. Would the owners of these websites be considered wholesalers, since they're listing the properties that they have interest in?

    I have to confess that I'm on my lunch break right now and don't have a lot of time to do much research before posting this (that's why it's so question-heavy). Therefore, some or all of the assumptions I've made may be incorrect.

    Thank you very much ahead of time for the advice!

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 9 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "REI":
    Being a bird dog and having a license can be a good mix. If someone wants to be paid for deals completed where they are not a principal they better have a license. Translation: most bird dogs operate illegally.

    If you want to hunt down deals then consider just getting them under contact (sales agreement or an option). Then you can sell your position. You will likely earn a lot more than a licensed agent working as a birddog and you will lower costs (insurance, license, desk fee, Realtor fee, MLS fee)

    As b eing a bird dog will not earn you a lot per transaction find a broker where you can hang your license who does not expect you to produce much. Also look at the costs of having a license vs. what you think you can earn. A marginal income with high expenses will not help. One agent I know has a minimum that he has to pay the broker. It is $2,500. Mostly for liability insurance.

    You can learn a lot about the RE industry without a license. Based on the bulk of the agents out there many RE investors actually know more than the license holders. This is because the agents are mostly helping two parties do a vanilla deal while RE investors look for the more profitable situations. Most investors would laugh if all they expected to earn was 3% (1/2 of a full listing fee).

    If you want to get your license then all the power to you. Just because you do not see the conflicts does not mean they are not there. If you narrowly focus how you expect to use the license then maybe there is a purpose to having it. Many investors what to get a license so they can pay to acccess the MLS. As an appraiser you likely already have the right to pay to access the MLS.

    Well said John! A lot of people that are in the process of becoming an agent should take this into consideration! If you are a person that thinks outside the box an can find many ways of making money I would listen to what John has to say. Once again thanks for the reply John as it was very informing and I do hope to hear from you soon enough, Have a wonderful biggerpockets day!
  • Real Estate Investor · London · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 74 votes
    18y

    El Kabong,

    Buy low, sell higher. Leave some profit on the table for the next guy. As a wholesaler you leave most of the money for the next guy as they are the ones taking the risk (financing, completing the work, etc).

    You are legally selling your contract or your rights detailed the contract.

    You mostly sell to other investors as you need buyers with all cash (or access to all cash). Conventional financing with a retail buyer will almost never work. Lenders do not like to see rapid sales at higher prices.

    You generally get paid when the deal closes. Some of the time the investor will cash you out of your position before they purchase.

    One simple way to think of this is you agree to an option and then sell on the option.

    John Corey

  • Robert FeolPro Member
    Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 41 posts · 34 votes
    18y

    One route you may want to consider to get involved is becoming a wholesaler of investment real estate. However, it is important that you do this in the proper way, or else you can potentially become a snake oil salesman like so many others out there.

    The premise is, obviously, to control real estate deals(greatly discounted deals) through a purchase and sale agreement and then resell the home or assign the contract to an end investor, allowing you to make a profit. I started to do this while I was a full - time school teacher and began to make my monthly salary in a single transaction - and quickly ended my teaching career. 8)

    Also, while as an appraiser you do have access to the MLS, you may want to consider getting your Realtor's license as an additional revenue stream, like if you are locking up great deals from the MLS - then you resell them and basically get two commissions. My partner and I both have our licenses and wholesale about 30 deals a month, so it can be quite profitable - and it is a great learning experience for you(learning to do repair estimates and estimate rental ranges, etc.)

    Robert Feol

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "Feol":
    One route you may want to consider to get involved is becoming a wholesaler of investment real estate. However, it is important that you do this in the proper way, or else you can potentially become a snake oil salesman like so many others out there.

    The premise is, obviously, to control real estate deals(greatly discounted deals) through a purchase and sale agreement and then resell the home or assign the contract to an end investor, allowing you to make a profit. I started to do this while I was a full - time school teacher and began to make my monthly salary in a single transaction - and quickly ended my teaching career. 8)

    Also, while as an appraiser you do have access to the MLS, you may want to consider getting your Realtor's license as an additional revenue stream, like if you are locking up great deals from the MLS - then you resell them and basically get two commissions. My partner and I both have our licenses and wholesale about 30 deals a month, so it can be quite profitable - and it is a great learning experience for you(learning to do repair estimates and estimate rental ranges, etc.)

    Robert Feol

    How exactly did you get into it? Did you start out on your own, or did you apprentice under someone who was already established?

    Please elaborate on the collecting two commissions part... I'm not sure I'm clear how that would work.

    Thank you all for your help!

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Also, during the wholesaling process, are you putting money down and taking out a loan for the sale, or simply signing your name and reselling without any money out of your pocket?

    What are the risks in wholesaling? I've read that more is at risk, so there is more to gain. How could the process potentially come back and bite you in the butt?

  • Robert FeolPro Member
    Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 41 posts · 34 votes
    18y

    When I got started I was attending my local REIA and a national speaker came and discussed Wholesaling. Ideally, you never put a contract on a house you aren't willing to close on, but essentially you only lock up incredible deals and resell them to people on your buyer's list. You always work on building your buyer's list and then when you get a good deal you farm the deal to your biggest investors. There are a variety of marketing techniques you can use as well. But in a nutshell, you (ideally) do not close on the home - you resell it before you close the contract and do a collapsed or simultaneous close. You generally only put up earnest money.

    As far as the two commissions go, follow this:

    If you were a Realtor, and you bought a home - suppose you close on it - you get one commission.

    If you are a Realtor and a Wholesaler - you buy the house as if you were going to close on it, but you resell the contract to anotheri nvestor. However, you were still the purchasing party on the sales side of the contract. When it closes, you get two commissions:

    1) For being a Realtor on the buy side
    2) Your Wholesale commission.

    Hope that helps!

    Robert Feol

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "Feol":
    When I got started I was attending my local REIA and a national speaker came and discussed Wholesaling. Ideally, you never put a contract on a house you aren't willing to close on, but essentially you only lock up incredible deals and resell them to people on your buyer's list. You always work on building your buyer's list and then when you get a good deal you farm the deal to your biggest investors. There are a variety of marketing techniques you can use as well. But in a nutshell, you (ideally) do not close on the home - you resell it before you close the contract and do a collapsed or simultaneous close. You generally only put up earnest money.

    As far as the two commissions go, follow this:

    If you were a Realtor, and you bought a home - suppose you close on it - you get one commission.

    If you are a Realtor and a Wholesaler - you buy the house as if you were going to close on it, but you resell the contract to anotheri nvestor. However, you were still the purchasing party on the sales side of the contract. When it closes, you get two commissions:

    1) For being a Realtor on the buy side
    2) Your Wholesale commission.

    Hope that helps!

    Robert Feol

    It does help immensely. What do you mean by earnest money? Is that basically just the money down that you would put on the house if you were to buy it? Sorry for the multitude of questions, but I'm becoming pretty excited about this aspect of the game.

    You mentioned that you have a Realtor license. When you do your business and collect your commissions, do your commissions come from the original seller? When you wholesale the house, is the fee that you receive paid by your buyer?

  • Robert FeolPro Member
    Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 41 posts · 34 votes
    18y

    Easnest money = the money which binds a purchase and sale contract, usually $500 or $1000.

    When you get your Realtor's license, you would get two checks - one for your wholelsale commission, directly from the closing attroney or escrow agent, and a second check would be made to your Realty company which would deduct appropriate commission splits and then give you your pre tax net commission from the Realty side. Honestly, it has been a fantastic source of revenue for us and has changed our lives. I'd be happy to give you our website with our blogs which may assist you as you begin down the path of becoming a real estate investor. Let me know.

    Robert Feol

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y

    Once you got your license, did you have to get a job at a realtor's office in order to work? Or were you simply able to collect the extra commission automatically, solely because you had the license?

    I would appreciate a link to your website via PM (or on here, if the mods don't mind you listing it).

    Again, sorry for all of the elementary questions.

  • Robert FeolPro Member
    Specialist · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 41 posts · 34 votes
    18y

    No we don't work jobs in the office a la floor agent style.

    I'll send yo the link, you have to email me: robertfeol at gmail.

    Send me a request and I'll link it back.

    RF

  • Member since 2008 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    18y
    Originally posted by "Feol":
    No we don't work jobs in the office a la floor agent style.

    I'll send yo the link, you have to email me: robertfeol at gmail.

    Send me a request and I'll link it back.

    RF

    Email sent.

    So basically you have your license, and work independently? Are you collecting the Realtor commission from the original seller of the house?

    When you wholesale, do you collect your money when your buyer buys the house, or on the closing of when they sell it?

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