Best markets to live and invest?

Best markets to live and invest?

Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
My wife and I have finally made the decision to leave Southern California and seek greener pastures.  We are in our early 40s and don't have a retirement plan or much saved, and we've come to the realization that the status quo is unsustainable and that we need to start making better financial decisions to set ourselves up for the future.   We currently rent in an affluent neighborhood and pay through the nose for the privilege.   Additionally, I have a pretty decent tech job and what I pay in taxes every month is enough to float a mortgage on a decent house in most other markets.   And it kills me a little inside to know that.   But as much as we love California and all of its amenities, living here isn't in alignment with our financial goals and it's time for us to leave.

And now we're confronting the decision on where to move, and where in the country would best serve our financial goals of reducing our personal living expenses and present the most opportunity for acquiring and operating income property.    We also want to find some place we enjoy living, or at the very least, tolerate for 5 years as we build our portfolio.  I personally would love to live in Texas... San Antonio is the most likely candidate, but I know that Texas is a hot market and I am left wondering if maybe I'm just too late to the party there.   The property tax situation there seems like it could be a significant risk to cashflow, especially given the appreciation we've been seeing there.    And I wonder if we'd even be able to compete as part-time/beginner investors there.   So what do you guys think?  Does Texas still make sense for small/part-time investors?   Or should I be looking elsewhere?

Or, let me re-frame the question just a bit.   If we wanted to optimize our lives for a low cost of living/tax burden the most opportunity for building our real estate portfolio in a beginner-friendly market, where should we be looking?  We're pretty much open to any/all possibilities.   What do you think?

Appreciate all of your input!




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Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
5y

@Josh Deeden. 
You didn't indicate your tech background, but the first objective, IMO is to establish yourselves in paying occupations in your new location. Once you are established in your new location and are meeting your basic needs with some left over, then you can begin to think about investing for the future. 

As for locations, I would suggest Austin which has a number of High-Tech Companies and is continuing to attract high tech businesses from CALI. You can live in some of the outlying communities more economically than in the Austin inner-core, and the schools are better - if that's a concern for children. Some suggestions, Round Rock, Pflugerville, Georgetown, Cedar Park & Leander on the North side of Austin. On the south side, Buda, Kyle, San Marcos, & Bastrop are all possibilities. 

San Antonio would also be an excellent choice as there is a burgeoning High Tech Community. Generally speaking,  Cost Of living is thought to be less in San Antonio than Austin.  As with Austin look for outlying communities where you can have a lower cost of living, but still have access to all the amenities and facilities of the major metro area. As for specific communities, Helotes, New Braunfels, Boerne, Schertz, Universal City, and Converse are potential destinations. 

Once you're meeting your basic needs and beginning to stockpile some savings, the best way to satisfy your housing needs and also begin to invest is to purchase a Duplex or other Multi-Family (MFR) property. You live in one unit and rent the others. This would enable you to get into the property using an FHA Loan (3.50% Down Payment) with a total out of pocket of about 7.50% Of the Sales Price. If you buy a duplex, ideally a large percentage of your Mortgage is paid by renting out the other unit. Or if you bought a Triplex / 4-Plex, all of your Mortgage Payment would be covered by rental income from the other units, allowing you to stockpile additional Cash for future investments.

Check out "7 Years to Seven Figure Wealth" by Brandon Turner. It's a ambitious roadmap, but doable with relentless drive and perseverance

It's NOT too late to start. But you do have to begin. 

Good Luck.

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you. 

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  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden wishing you success in your journey!

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 531 posts · 310 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden I think San Antonio is a good bet honestly. The rents are a little low comparatively to the home prices from what I have seen, but if you end up looking there I can recommend you my agent/wholesaler! 

    I live in Austin and tons of Californians moving here (I just moved here from NYC). The market is piping hot, but that is not necessarily good if you are buying a rental!

  • Real Estate Agent · North Myrtle Beach, SC · Member since 2018 · 110 posts · 99 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden would definitely consider your daily/weekly activities and what you really enjoy doing outside of work as moving to a cheaper place to live does have its negatives in regards to amenities and outside activities. In a larger metropolitan area like San Antonio, there will be deals as long as you stick to the grind of looking for them and committing to making offers. We just relocated to the south-east and putting in a plug to look into areas here. I know Knoxville/Nashville are seeing some growth as well as Atlanta, and areas in South and North Carolina! Sometimes you just need to commit to a place and figure the rest out on the fly!

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden. 
    You didn't indicate your tech background, but the first objective, IMO is to establish yourselves in paying occupations in your new location. Once you are established in your new location and are meeting your basic needs with some left over, then you can begin to think about investing for the future. 

    As for locations, I would suggest Austin which has a number of High-Tech Companies and is continuing to attract high tech businesses from CALI. You can live in some of the outlying communities more economically than in the Austin inner-core, and the schools are better - if that's a concern for children. Some suggestions, Round Rock, Pflugerville, Georgetown, Cedar Park & Leander on the North side of Austin. On the south side, Buda, Kyle, San Marcos, & Bastrop are all possibilities. 

    San Antonio would also be an excellent choice as there is a burgeoning High Tech Community. Generally speaking,  Cost Of living is thought to be less in San Antonio than Austin.  As with Austin look for outlying communities where you can have a lower cost of living, but still have access to all the amenities and facilities of the major metro area. As for specific communities, Helotes, New Braunfels, Boerne, Schertz, Universal City, and Converse are potential destinations. 

    Once you're meeting your basic needs and beginning to stockpile some savings, the best way to satisfy your housing needs and also begin to invest is to purchase a Duplex or other Multi-Family (MFR) property. You live in one unit and rent the others. This would enable you to get into the property using an FHA Loan (3.50% Down Payment) with a total out of pocket of about 7.50% Of the Sales Price. If you buy a duplex, ideally a large percentage of your Mortgage is paid by renting out the other unit. Or if you bought a Triplex / 4-Plex, all of your Mortgage Payment would be covered by rental income from the other units, allowing you to stockpile additional Cash for future investments.

    Check out "7 Years to Seven Figure Wealth" by Brandon Turner. It's a ambitious roadmap, but doable with relentless drive and perseverance

    It's NOT too late to start. But you do have to begin. 

    Good Luck.

    Let me know if I can answer any questions for you. 

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 19 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden - Just sent you a DM with some local info about San Antonio. Looking forward to connecting with you!

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    5y

    DC. Highest incomes in the country. You are in tech....DC has the 2nd most tech jobs in country right behind the bay area, but with housing costs half the bay areas.

  • Investor · California, CA · Member since 2016 · 367 posts · 375 votes
    5y

    You can't just base it on a spreadsheet calculation, need to be able to tolerate living there, as you mentioned.  What's the weather going to be like, are you ok with it?  What are you going to do in your free time?  What are the taxes like?

    Have you been to San Antonio?  It's not for me.  Friends and family have moved to: Reno, Boise & Salt Lake City. All are happy there so far. They all have +/-, 

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Antonio Cucciniello:

    @Josh Deeden I think San Antonio is a good bet honestly. The rents are a little low comparatively to the home prices from what I have seen, but if you end up looking there I can recommend you my agent/wholesaler! 

    I live in Austin and tons of Californians moving here (I just moved here from NYC). The market is piping hot, but that is not necessarily good if you are buying a rental!

    Yeah, I can imagine buying a primary residence in Austin and investing elsewhere in Texas.    I've been in big cities most of my adult life (ex-NYC too...SF, etc), and now I'm all about living in the suburbs or generally less densely populated areas.  

    How are you liking Austin?   What part of the city are you in?  

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim Cummings:

    @Josh Deeden. 
    You didn't indicate your tech background, but the first objective, IMO is to establish yourselves in paying occupations in your new location. Once you are established in your new location and are meeting your basic needs with some left over, then you can begin to think about investing for the future. 

    As for locations, I would suggest Austin which has a number of High-Tech Companies and is continuing to attract high tech businesses from CALI. You can live in some of the outlying communities more economically than in the Austin inner-core, and the schools are better - if that's a concern for children. Some suggestions, Round Rock, Pflugerville, Georgetown, Cedar Park & Leander on the North side of Austin. On the south side, Buda, Kyle, San Marcos, & Bastrop are all possibilities. 

    San Antonio would also be an excellent choice as there is a burgeoning High Tech Community. Generally speaking,  Cost Of living is thought to be less in San Antonio than Austin.  As with Austin look for outlying communities where you can have a lower cost of living, but still have access to all the amenities and facilities of the major metro area. As for specific communities, Helotes, New Braunfels, Boerne, Schertz, Universal City, and Converse are potential destinations. 

    Once you're meeting your basic needs and beginning to stockpile some savings, the best way to satisfy your housing needs and also begin to invest is to purchase a Duplex or other Multi-Family (MFR) property. You live in one unit and rent the others. This would enable you to get into the property using an FHA Loan (3.50% Down Payment) with a total out of pocket of about 7.50% Of the Sales Price. If you buy a duplex, ideally a large percentage of your Mortgage is paid by renting out the other unit. Or if you bought a Triplex / 4-Plex, all of your Mortgage Payment would be covered by rental income from the other units, allowing you to stockpile additional Cash for future investments.

    Check out "7 Years to Seven Figure Wealth" by Brandon Turner. It's a ambitious roadmap, but doable with relentless drive and perseverance

    It's NOT too late to start. But you do have to begin. 

    Good Luck.

    Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.

    Hey Jim!   Thanks a ton for the thoughtful response.   And you're right, I should have been more specific about our work situations.   I am in the fortunate position that I work remotely and my job will follow me.   It's a stable job at a stable company and they will continue to pay my current salary wherever I happen to move.    Even if this job were to go away, finding another remote gig at equal or more pay is pretty much given.  

    My wife has a source of passive income that's not insignificant and any additional income she would make from working is pretty much disposable income.    That being said, proximity to a tech hub isn't all that necessary and commuting times for us are not a factor in where we decide to live.    We just care about proximity to amenities and activities we enjoy doing, especially outdoorsy stuff like fishing, shooting, hiking, swimming, etc.

    Another constraint I should have mentioned is that we are accustomed to having a lot of living space, so any sort of house hacking or living in a multifamily unit is pretty much off the table for us. We have 2 big dogs and a lot of stuff, so buying a SFR is probably the only thing on the menu for us. But man, I do love the idea of buying a multifamily and moving into one of the units. That would be ideal, but I just don't think our situation will allow for it.

    And thanks for that book recommendation.   I will pick that up.   Our goal is to have enough passive income in 10 years to make working optional for us.   So if Brandon Turner has a 7 year plan, well I'm open to hearing what the man has to say :)   

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Troy Jaster:

    @Josh Deeden - Just sent you a DM with some local info about San Antonio. Looking forward to connecting with you!

    Awesome, thank you.   I'll check it out and get back to you! 

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Alexander Knowles:

    @Josh Deeden would definitely consider your daily/weekly activities and what you really enjoy doing outside of work as moving to a cheaper place to live does have its negatives in regards to amenities and outside activities. In a larger metropolitan area like San Antonio, there will be deals as long as you stick to the grind of looking for them and committing to making offers. We just relocated to the south-east and putting in a plug to look into areas here. I know Knoxville/Nashville are seeing some growth as well as Atlanta, and areas in South and North Carolina! Sometimes you just need to commit to a place and figure the rest out on the fly!

    Great advice.   Yeah, it definitely needs to be a place we enjoy.   I can't imagine moving to St. Louis, for example, or anywhere with bad winters.   Been there, done that and I am good for a lifetime.   We are also considering the Southeast.   Tennessee, Georgia, North Carolina, etc.   Tennessee appeals because of the all around low tax burden, but we're a little worried about cultural fit.   But that could just be coastal-elite bias on our side, so we're gonna take a little trip there to get a better feel for what life is like down there.   

    Where in the Southeast did you land?

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 531 posts · 310 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Josh Deeden:
    Originally posted by @Antonio Cucciniello:

    @Josh Deeden I think San Antonio is a good bet honestly. The rents are a little low comparatively to the home prices from what I have seen, but if you end up looking there I can recommend you my agent/wholesaler! 

    I live in Austin and tons of Californians moving here (I just moved here from NYC). The market is piping hot, but that is not necessarily good if you are buying a rental!

    Yeah, I can imagine buying a primary residence in Austin and investing elsewhere in Texas.    I've been in big cities most of my adult life (ex-NYC too...SF, etc), and now I'm all about living in the suburbs or generally less densely populated areas.  

    How are you liking Austin?   What part of the city are you in?   

    North East Austin, its fun its not like NYC pre pandemic fun but less covid rules, cheaper taxes and cheaper than NYC for sure. That's what I am doing right now

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden. Sounds like you've got a great situation to start accumulating a horde of Cash for Investment. 

    With all your animals & hobbies might be difficult to make the MFR purchase work for you. From the living side of that equation, you would only need to live there for a year to satisfy the lender Requirements on the purchase of an MFR.

    If you have the ability to work remotely - check us out in College Station. Great community, Great people, lots of interest in hunting & fishing. Cost of living less than Austin, and properties are less expensive. DM me off list if you want to talk. 

  • Realtor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 53 posts · 27 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden

    As a native Austinite, I’m a huge fan of the city and surrounding hill country! Even though prices are rising fast, they are still low relative to California. Getting into a single family home right now is challenging (but not impossible). There’s plenty of opportunity if you’re open to other options (a condo, house hacking in a duplex, exploring less trendy areas, etc.). Happy to chat more with you.

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Josh Deeden have you tried forex/crypto trading? I reckon it’ll suit you.

    I haven't.   Having previously worked at a shady crypto company, I'm somewhat weary, but it's not off the table.   Don't know a whole lot about forex trading, so perhaps that's something to look into.   Appreciate the prompt to look into these further!

  • Real Estate Agent · Boise, ID · Member since 2018 · 58 posts · 39 votes
    5y

    I would take a look at Boise...I moved from California and am now living and investing here in the Boise area.

  • Samara HuntleyPro Member
    Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2020 · 124 posts · 189 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden have you considered Charlotte, North Carolina?

    Personal reasons to live here: tons of amenities, decent weather year round, relatively affordable compared to other major cities, the beach and mountains are only 2.5 hours away etc.

    Reasons to build your portfolio here:

    Extreme job and population growth (80 people a day), 1% rule properties in submarkets, great appreciation and being ranked the 3rd top RE market in the nation for 2021.

    Don’t know if you can tell I’m a native or not... #ILoveCharlotte

    P.s they also have a strong tech and banking industry here so that could be another plus.

  • Specialist · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 231 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden I live and invest in STR's in big bear Ca only an hour and a half from you. But housing is half to a third as much and if a place is managed well it has crazy high cash flow and CoC. You would have the advantage of still being in California but also the disadvantage from a tax perspective.

  • Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    DC. Highest incomes in the country. You are in tech....DC has the 2nd most tech jobs in country right behind the bay area, but with housing costs half the bay areas.

    An average couple of two government employees in the dc metro area is making about 200k a year to put dc’s income into prospective.

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kory McCain:

    I would take a look at Boise...I moved from California and am now living and investing here in the Boise area.

    Boise sounds interesting.   The weather gives  me pause though.   I'm generally allergic to snowy weather in my advanced age, but it's not an absolute deal breaker.   I don't fully understand the tax burden in Idaho compared to other states, so I would need to research that.   But as someone who loves the outdoors and beautiful places, Boise definitely ticks a lot of boxes.    I think I'll dig a little deeper into Boise and see what I can learn.   Thanks!

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Zachary Beach:

    @Josh Deeden I live and invest in STR's in big bear Ca only an hour and a half from you. But housing is half to a third as much and if a place is managed well it has crazy high cash flow and CoC. You would have the advantage of still being in California but also the disadvantage from a tax perspective.

    Man, I love big bear. Just a shame it's in California. But I hadn't considered the STR possibility either, but perhaps I should? I can imagine the returns on those are pretty good when they go well, but I do worry about the management overhead required to operate them. If I lived there, I think it would be manageable, but seriously, I need to GTFO of California. The income tax here is just a bit too much for me to stomach. But I do appreciate the suggestion and widening of my perspective.

  • Pasadena, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 12 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Samara Huntley:

    @Josh Deeden have you considered Charlotte, North Carolina?

    Personal reasons to live here: tons of amenities, decent weather year round, relatively affordable compared to other major cities, the beach and mountains are only 2.5 hours away etc.

    Reasons to build your portfolio here:

    Extreme job and population growth (80 people a day), 1% rule properties in submarkets, great appreciation and being ranked the 3rd top RE market in the nation for 2021.

    Don’t know if you can tell I’m a native or not... #ILoveCharlotte

    P.s they also have a strong tech and banking industry here so that could be another plus.

    Yes!   North Carolina is very much on the short list.   So many things to like about North Carolina as far as I can tell.   I would love to hear more about your experiences there.   I will send you a PM!

  • Member since 2019 · 65 posts · 68 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden -- Have you considered Nevada?  We moved from Texas (where we lived for six years and LOVED it) to Nevada, outside Vegas, and we are very pleasantly surprised with how much we also love it here.  Austin is one of the coolest cities in the world, but what we didn't like about Texas is that we felt there wasn't a huge diversity of outdoor activities within a 1 to 4 hour drive.  Couple examples, just yesterday we drove an hour from Vegas and we were skiing...can't do that in Texas.  Likewise, more hiking and mountains here in general.  And my wife loves the Pacific Ocean so we're sure to do a few beach trips each year whereas the ocean in Texas simply doesn't compare.

    As I said we loved Texas and both Austin and San Antonio are wonderful cities, I thought we'd never leave.  But for access to certain outdoor activities, I'll take Southern Nevada.  And you still have the no-state-income-tax, low property tax, lower home prices certainly than Austin (not sure where San Antonio is at)...and we invest here too.  So long story short, if you want to optimize for low cost of living / financial, enjoy the outdoors, avoid winter, and perhaps still access SoCal and its amenities from time to time...maybe NV could be a consideration for you.

  • Don SpaffordPro Member
    Investor · Idaho Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 935 posts · 629 votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden Speaking of Idaho, not Boise, Idaho Falls and everywhere around here is great if you like outdoors. Short drive to Yellowstone, close to Pallisades which has a large lake for boating, fishing, camping which is also close to Jackson. Mountains, trails, and not overpopulated if you want to get away from the condensed population of large cities. More affordable housing and very low crime rates too. Close enough to large cities like Boise or SLC if you want to get to a major event. We do get snow in winter, but honestly is less cold than more humid areas during winter. Low humidity here makes it great for enjoying the outdoors. And a great tenant base for reliable rental income.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Josh Deeden imo you should live where you want to live and invest where the numbers $$$ make sense. If you can do both in the same market great, if not don’t try to force the issue. My $.02 If I was relocating from CA I would consider Las Vegas NV, Phoenix AZ, Boise ID, SLC UT, Nashville TN, Austin TX, Tampa Bay FL, Raleigh NC, Asheville NC, Charleston SC just to name a few. Good luck!

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