Overages after a tax sale foreclosure
Residential Real Estate Broker · New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 142 posts · 21 votes
I was listening to a webinar about overages that are
unclaimed in tax sale foreclosures, nearly 95% according to the speaker,
Bob Diamond, there are 3,000 of these done every day, JP Morgan says $13,700,000
worth of unclaimed money. He is selling this course for $1,495 which I don't have
at the present, is anyone familiar with this process. (you find the money and
return it to the owners and take 30 or 40% finders fee)
Oh and the other thing with tax sale overages is that your competing against 2 or 3 other BIG companies. Your hardly ever gonna be able to contact the owners on the 1st try so they have the money for marketing and the people to keep trying to reach these ppl. And once they reach a owner they send the lawyers to them holding a check in their hand. Saying yeah if you sign these papers giving us the right to collect this on your behalf well give you a partial payment for $$$$ RIGHT NOW. Just sign the papers.
Every State is different on how they handle that. In Texas, for example, the most you can charge is 25% , not to exceed $1,000 and YOU MUST BE AN ATTORNEY.
Makes it hard to justify the fee if you plan on doing it in Texas.
Arnie Abramson, CEO
Texas Tax Sales Resource Group, LLC
Thanks i had never known
About this method
Im sure its a lot more
Complicated than they portrayed
It is actually more simple. Don't pay a cent for the course. In Baltimore, you go to the tax sale department. They give you all the names, addresses and amounts for a small fee. The trick is to find the people. We used a private detective. The whole thing was a royal pain in the neck endeavor. We would find someone and they mostly would say "what do we need you for". "We can get the money ourselves. Thanks". Or they would believe it and refused to sign the document. Some people would say " I want nothing to do with the house". Please find something else to do with your time.
Thanks i had never known
About this method
Im sure its a lot more
Complicated than they portrayed
I would believe that people. Behave like that they dont value the time and effort it took to find the .money for them
@Pauline Jones You have to be a hard hearted shark to do this business. How do you look someone in the eye and say "I know you are due $5,000 but I will only tell you how to get it if you give me $2500." Even if they happily agree, there is an excellent chance they will have "buyers remorse"after taking your offer. Afterwards they will realize "I could have done that, why should you get so much"
This is a legitimate business , helping people get money they would otherwise never see. However trust me, anyone who hears about it will perceive you as the bad guy taking advantage of someone when they are down. Some people would rather see the previous owner get nothing rather than you making a fee.
As Rich said the concept is simple but it is harder than it seems.
Bob Diamond is a real deal and he is doing this for years. They have lists of best state to do this with detailed timeframes(TX isnt in the list) you need use within each state. They have a strategy on how to position yourself while talking with the owners. You never go to see the owner eye-eye or tell him "Hey bro your due to <exact how much and where>". You work from home and never go to see the owner in person. This method isnt saturated at all, since there are a lot of counties you can do and you cant hit more than 3-5 cases at a time unless you have a real business build around this with some employees so you will stick at max 1-2 cases at a time. Overages are coming daily, monthly, yearly. Even tho this can be done in any state, there are some that are favorable. Bob will give you every agreement and form they are using. I think this is the best entry into real estate, even better that wholesalling because it can be done more efficiently from outside of USA.
The only hard case you might get if you get an owner that is deceased or deciding heritage, than you need to hire an attorney or go with probate (from someone outside of usa i suggest you avoid those cases, but if the overage is high than you might consider hiring an attorney). You can always decide to not do those cases and focus on normal ones.
I will attemp to do this but first i need to open my LLC in USA and get an ITIN, than i can do business with my company name, get physicall address for getting checks and overage printed listings(if they dont do it over email), usa bank account and an skype usa number(which is like 50eur/year).
Bob is holding a live event workshop 30Nov-2Dec in New Jersey, so if you are from USA and interested i suggest you check it out and take action:
In addition the volume of overages and the amounts of averages are often times overstated. The only time there is an overage is when the bidding exceeds the taxes owed and ALL other liens against the property like mortgages, judgments, IRS liens, state and local taxes as well as municipal liens for utilities.
In addition in most cases if there is money left over, the tax collector has a current address for the owner and send them the money. In one county where there were 2,500 tax liens a month before the sale, there were exactly 4 properties that had overages, and 3 of those the tax office had a current address to send the money. In the 4th case, the owner had moved, but the high bidder tracked down the owner and told them about the excess money owed to them in exchange for a quit claim deed for the property to resolve any title issues. Therefore there were no overages in that county that year.
I do not know Bob Diamond so I can't comment one way or the other as to the validity or value of his course(s).
While it may be possible to learn most anything without benefit of paying for the training, it's is extremely rare to meet successful people who operate profitable businesses without help. Especially rare on these forums.
If you are a successful marketer you will come across anomaly situations. I've made a career of finding needles in haystacks on a serial basis. What's also key is that I know what to do with the opportunities is discover and how to best monetize...even the wildest scenarios imaginable.
It's a given that even state's laws are different. They treat surplus funds from mortgage Foreclosures and tax sales differently. Some states treat these differently by different parties (former owner versus new owner, assignee or finder). And same for the timeline as to "when" as well as the level of prove up required to claim.
Some funds get interpleaded to local superior courts and then, eventually escheat to the state.
Some localities have "sticky fingers" and are notoriously dishonest. I won't post about the ones that I know of.
So, are you really going to learn these things from getting beat up working these deals without benefit of education? I will happily spend $1,500 to make $20,000 and not get brutalized because of a missed deadline, incorrect form or poorly-worded contract.
Truth be told, few on these forums will ever take meaningful action, preferring yo sit on the sidelines talking and posting about deals they only wish they could profit from.
One way or the other you're going to get an education.
This is a very, very old game.....only sounds new to newbies. It is very saturated, and there are guys with systems and large overheads who do okay. The beginner has very little chance of being successful. "Getting a list" then working it is useless. The full time guys spend the time and money researching Prior to the auctions, and are calling/emailing the potential claimants the Day Of The Auction......so getting a list from past sale is useless. Also, as mentioned, most properties have no surplus to the owner, and the laws and reg.s for doing this are quite restrictive. In FL for example, not only must the owner sign an affidavit acknowledging who and where they can collect the money from by themselves, the fee by law is set at a max 12% for the firm assisting.
If it sounds too good to be true - - it is. That fee is atrocious and instead of working REI, the promoter is selling books and course work. As noted above, it you were wearing the other shoe, how would you feel with this approach?
Pick a real REI strategy instead of one from the Get Rich Quick column.
Its not easy to do. #1 Finding the list to work.. Your not going to find the list on just on website. You have to go through each county gov tax sale office or website. #2 Doing the research to find out which properties actually have funds left over. #3 Finding the owner because your going to have to spend some money doing the skiptrace to find them. #4 Once you do locate them you'll need a professional attorney to do the paperwork for you to collect the funds legally so that the previous owner doesn't kick you out of the loop and to make sure that you get paid.
Oh and the other thing with tax sale overages is that your competing against 2 or 3 other BIG companies. Your hardly ever gonna be able to contact the owners on the 1st try so they have the money for marketing and the people to keep trying to reach these ppl. And once they reach a owner they send the lawyers to them holding a check in their hand. Saying yeah if you sign these papers giving us the right to collect this on your behalf well give you a partial payment for $$$$ RIGHT NOW. Just sign the papers.
Every State is different on how they handle that. In Texas, for example, the most you can charge is 25% , not to exceed $1,000 and YOU MUST BE AN ATTORNEY.
Lol Wow theres a Lot of Nah Saying going on .... Man.... I saw the Bob Diamond System. I believe it's like anything anything can work. And anything worth it is going to take work or it's not worth it because everyone would be doing it. You just need to decide whether its worth your time or not. If it is then work at it with all your heart and commitment and it will yield you profits
@ Tim Lopez
Tim, you defend the Bob Diamond system, because you say you have seen it. But you have not used it, correct? I agree that it may not be easy and that you have to work it, but that does not mean that it is worth the time and effort, let alone the cost and value of the program. Maybe you can clarify why you believe this program is worth the money?
i would say most of the comments over the past two years are pretty negative on this type of business. if that is the case is there any thing out there that works ......tax deeds?
I was listening to a webinar about overages that are
unclaimed in tax sale foreclosures, nearly 95% according to the speaker,
Bob Diamond, there are 3,000 of these done every day, JP Morgan says $13,700,000
worth of unclaimed money. He is selling this course for $1,495 which I don't have
at the present, is anyone familiar with this process. (you find the money and
return it to the owners and take 30 or 40% finders fee)
Wow, there are so many naysayers, unbelievable. Nobody said this business is easy. it's definitely not a walk in the park but people can make something of it if they work hard just like anything else, if you are absolutely sure you want to do this then go full steam ahead!
All I have to say is if it were easy everyone would be doing it. However just because something is difficult or you do not know how to do it does not mean it can not be done. Just like in Real Estate there are Realtors that think Wholesaling is Illegal, that it can not be done... Yet with a lot of work and effort, it is very profitable.
I suggest following "Overage Syndicate" Nick Fullmer started just two years ago and shows his tax returns to show he made almost $50.000 in his first year in 2017 and over $100,000 in 2018. He has a great facebook group and has very affordable training.
Overages with bob diamond of approximately $1,500 are too rich for my blood. Start an investment club of 15 to 20 people. Let the group listen to his pitch. If 51% or more agree to invest time, money and effort into the venture, the mission becomes more affordable and is support by 11 - 20 of your family and friends. In addition, you have a cadre of telemarketers with a common mission.
If it sounds too good to be true - - it is. That fee is atrocious and instead of working REI, the promoter is selling books and course work. As noted above, it you were wearing the other shoe, how would you feel with this approach?
Pick a real REI strategy instead of one from the Get Rich Quick column.
Not true. Overages is real, but just like any other division of Real Estate you have to put in the work. Some guru might be saying it's all easy to get the people signed up and everything ,that isn't true, it takes real work but it's a legitimate avenue of real estate, it's very easy for people who never did it to be armchair quarterbacks and say, this is not legitimate or this isn't real, blah blah blah.. I think that goes with most other niches that are a little bit out of the mainstream
I am always amazed at people who believe paying for a course is a bad thing. I am sorry but $1500 is not a crazy cost for a course that can return much more. Even a AA at a Community College is way more than that. The sad thing is that most people are so negative and live in a cynical, defeatist mentality they will never succeed in anything that is not a job.
There is a A LOT of work that goes into creative real estate albeit it, wholesaling, overages, lease to own programs, subject to. The work and strategy is what you exchange for not have 25k to 200K to invest. You have to believe its possible, learn your craft put in your work and go for it. I started wholesaling with bandit signs, that even some wholesaling gurus said clown them and say they don't work and they did!! I am closing a 8k deal today off of a bandit sign. If 1 person can succeed anyone can. Once the 4 minute mile is broke its over!!!
What's the latest consensus on overages? I'm very tempted to join/pay for Diamond's overages course (partly because of the stress of Covid-caused unemployment). Can one person actually do this work, or am I engaging in fantasy because I don't have a work crew?
What's the latest consensus on overages? I'm very tempted to join/pay for Diamond's overages course (partly because of the stress of Covid-caused unemployment). Can one person actually do this work, or am I engaging in fantasy because I don't have a work crew?
What's the latest consensus on overages? I'm very tempted to join/pay for Diamond's overages course (partly because of the stress of Covid-caused unemployment). Can one person actually do this work, or am I engaging in fantasy because I don't have a work crew?
Hi Steven. I'm not a regular contributor, but I signed up just to leave my personal experience regarding this program. Hope it helps in giving you some insight.
I purchased Bob Diamond's Tax Sale Overages Blueprint program last year. My motivation was that with a new baby, I needed extra income. After taxes, mortgage, and bills paid off, our family had $1,200 left to use per month. It was manageable as a couple, but I started eating up savings ever since our kid went to daycare. The cost of childcare alone was eating up $1,000 of my budget. On-screen, it was motivating as hell. The logic seemed flawless. It felt like I was going to make an extra $300K every month on the side without quitting my job. I even signed up for the live seminar. After I came back, I've have set up everything to do the business—the L.L.C. and everything. And I did researches and started calling.
Then I realized. I hated blindly cold calling people. I REALLY HATED. I was just NOT born for sales. I hated sounding needy to strangers, I hated waiting in the dark for them to reply, I hated the instability of the income, I hated myself sounding like a hustler, I deeply hated myself withholding information leading people to a certain direction for my own advantage. They told me that after taking 40% of the finder's fee, people get 60% of the unclaimed funds, which they wouldn't have gotten without help. But if I ended up paying 40% of my unclaimed fund as a fee, even if I didn't know about the fund, would I be happy? I would be furious. Why would I do something that I don't want for myself to others? With any of my interests aside, I believe the fair fee for the service is at around 12-20%. But then again, it's not so much worth it to pursue if that's the case, especially after taxes. If 40% is acceptable just because the money would've been lost to the government's hand, what's stopping you from getting 90% of the cut? After all, you're doing ALL the work. The customers will still be grateful to get 10% because otherwise, they'd get nothing. What they're saying is NOT valid logic. I think this is a predatory business, the aspect which I overlooked at the beginning due to my own greed. But I don't want to do this as a father to my own daughter.
So I decided to quit. I actually am in the process of dissolving my L.L.C. right now. I didn't make a penny out of the number of calls I made during the nine months of my journey with Bob Diamond. Not blaming him though. As Dave Ramsey says, I paid stupid tax. The stupid tax I paid in this case for the past nine months, was about ~USD 6,700. In total, I've lost ~USD 6,700 in pursuing this. It ate up my savings a lot but I'm okay with this. I'm walking away now.
It's okay to mock me as one of 'the 90% of people who didn't make it because s/he doesn't have what it takes.' I probably am. But there's no shame on me.
So, the real question for the people who are reading this: Is this program legit? Maybe. I don't have enough experience otherwise. I still haven't found any logical flaw from his program and in my head, it still works. I've never purchased any guru classes in my life and this was the first, as it was the only program that made sense in my head. I don't think I'll ever turn my head to this type of 'secret classes' ever in my remainder of life. My failure can be due to my own lack of aptness for this type of business model. But then again, if you are seeking approval from other people who claims that they are succeeding in this business area, are you willing to so blindly trust people who are anonymous on the internet? Maybe you just want to believe what you want to believe.
One question still lingers in my head: If Bob Diamond is still making money with the Tax Sale Overages Blueprint, why is he spilling the beans about his business model around? He claims that he is making more than enough money, and he wants to do something meaningful and fun. But people who makes enough money usually expand their business and build charities. They don't cultivate potential competitors and alert governments to regulate the business in the long run. I get a sense that he's getting out of the business or already out of the business, and I may have been one of the suckers who bent over for that.
Anyway, long story short: based on my limited experience, I didn't see myself getting rich with this business model, and am walking away now. I think I'll enjoy mowing people's lawn part-time after work better than doing this.
I'm getting ready to drive for the Grubhub with masks on starting next week to make that extra $1,900 per month for daycare and some more. Wish me luck, and hope everyone seeking opportunities here is staying safe and healthy.