Who is responsible for cleaning during construction of a SFH?

Rental Property Investor · Hewitt, TX · Member since 2020 · 27 posts · 17 votes

Had this issue a few times. My GC wants me to instruct other subbers (eg electrician, hvac, plumber) to clean up after their work. Is the burden on the GC to clean up after other subbers’ mess?

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Sergey A. Petrov

Real Estate Consultant · Seattle, WA · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 784 votes

Who hired the subs?

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Sergey A. Petrov
Real Estate Consultant · Seattle, WA · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 784 votes
4y
Who hired the subs?
3 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
4y
Isn't it up to the GC to manage the project and tell people if they aren't doing something?
1 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
4y
good luck on this one LOL.. subs are pigs most all the time at least the labor.. they will have their lunch and just drop the stuff on the ground..
some will do a little bit of pick up.. but we have to follow behind them. Its frustrating but your going to deal with this every time.
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David M.
Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Kyle Robarts
Usually, the subs don't really clean up after themselves... Maybe later on with the finish work, but in general scrap and other stuff is "your" problem. However, if your GC has hired the subs, you can't really be telling them what to do -- they aren't your hires. Furthermore, if you hired the GC to do a job, then he has to take care of "it" somehow. When I manage my own jobs, I have handle it somehow. I specifically ask/pay for my sheetrock guy to throw out the scrap rock --- I get the dumpster and I pay extra time/labour for him to put in there. During other misc work, I give them a box of heavy duty trash bags, and I bring the trash bags out to the street for the garbage pickup --- yeah, not supposed to be construction trash out but these guys take it anyway... this is the light stuff after the main dumpster work is over.
some trash subs take away. Like my hvac guy will haul off the box the furnace came in and associated dunnage. As well as any srap sheet metal. "Core" construction trades tend not to deal with trash.
It sounds like you are learning about the aspects of getting work done. Definitely something you need to work out with the GC. In my opinion, you hired him for the whole job (I assume you did) so he should be taking care of the whole job.
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
As they said^^ it is typically on the GC because the subs are working for him. He's paying them so why would you have anything to do with them at all?
1 Reply
Eliott Elias
Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
It’s not your GC’s responsibility. Who ever made the mess needs to clean it
1 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Eliott Elias:

It’s not your GC’s responsibility. Who ever made the mess needs to clean it

But the GC owns and runs the project and jobsite. They are ultimately responsible to get the sub that made the mess to clean it up. The GC writes the checks and holds the power.......
This is how it works....
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Eliott Elias
Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 9k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Eliott Elias:

It’s not your GC’s responsibility. Who ever made the mess needs to clean it

But the GC owns and runs the project and jobsite. They are ultimately responsible to get the sub that made the mess to clean it up. The GC writes the checks and holds the power.......
This is how it works....
Is the subs are under the GC then it is the GC's responsibility. If you're hiring out work outside of your GC it isn't
2 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Eliott Elias:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Eliott Elias:

It’s not your GC’s responsibility. Who ever made the mess needs to clean it

But the GC owns and runs the project and jobsite. They are ultimately responsible to get the sub that made the mess to clean it up. The GC writes the checks and holds the power.......
This is how it works....
Is the subs are under the GC then it is the GC's responsibility. If you're hiring out work outside of your GC it isn't

Of course. But since the OP @Kyle Robarts has not replied, I think we're assuming the GC hired the subs, I mean they typically do. Maybe he's doing an owner/builder though....?
2 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
The worst subs were always the electricians for me....little bits of wire stripping and cut pieces everywhere. Then they glare at you when you tell them to clean up.
Nice to be the guy that signs the checks though... :-)
1 Reply
Sergey A. Petrov
Real Estate Consultant · Seattle, WA · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 784 votes
4y
Everybody is responsible for cleaning up after themselves. The owner is ultimately responsible for everything and everybody. Whoever hired the subs is responsible for reminding them to clean up after themselves or holding the next progress payment until the cleanup is routinely done as per the contract (assuming the contract requires the job site to be left in a tidy condition at the end of the work day)
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Sergey A. Petrov:

Everybody is responsible for cleaning up after themselves. The owner is ultimately responsible for everything and everybody. Whoever hired the subs is responsible for reminding them to clean up after themselves or holding the next progress payment until the cleanup is routinely done as per the contract (assuming the contract requires the job site to be left in a tidy condition at the end of the work day)

LOL good luck with todays subs.. you withhold payment they wont work for you.. this is in new construction of course.. we have weekly driveby construction clean up company adds about 1500 to the build job.. best you can hope for is they pile the stuff up.. I walked around my site yesterday picking up insulation that went blowing in the wind.. LOL and I am the owner but not to proud to pick up after these guys.. this is a 90 home project in Portland sub market.
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

You need a more badass GC. One who keeps his subs busy constantly and takes care of them so they have respect (and a little fear)....
I know hard to find nowadays....

0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

You need a more badass GC. One who keeps his subs busy constantly and takes care of them so they have respect (and a little fear)....
I know hard to find nowadays....

ya easier said than done when you have 14 homes going at one time.
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David M.
Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Bruce Woodruff @Jay Hinrichs
Yeah, if you aren't there they won't work, unless they really know you... My guys which I've used for years I don't have to watch over.. I know another investor had to fly half across the country to watch the guys work. After three weeks of getting nothing done, with him sitting there its close to be knocked out in week.. And people think they can remotely invest and its not problem...
0 Reply
Michael Evans
General Contractor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 79 votes
4y
Most GCs have cleaning people on their staff. Subs will never really clean up the right way.
A clean job site is priceless for your reputation. It's the last thing you want to cheap out on.
Mike Evans
General Contractor / Investor
2 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Michael Evans:

Most GCs have cleaning people on their staff. Subs will never really clean up the right way.
A clean job site is priceless for your reputation. It's the last thing you want to cheap out on.
Mike Evans
General Contractor / Investor

Yes. I had my own crew do the final cleaning at the end of the day and especially on Fridays. But I expected the subs to at least pick up their own crap.
You're darn right it's priceless! I built/remodeled custom homes and the customers would bring in tables/chairs and all their friends, and sit around and drink and critique the work.....
0 Reply
Michael Evans
General Contractor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 79 votes
4y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

The worst subs were always the electricians for me....little bits of wire stripping and cut pieces everywhere. Then they glare at you when you tell them to clean up.
Nice to be the guy that signs the checks though... :-)

They expect you to have cleaning people. They figure it's not their job to clean. I actually would rather they spend the time on the electrical at $120 per hour instead of cleaning at $15
1 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Michael Evans:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

The worst subs were always the electricians for me....little bits of wire stripping and cut pieces everywhere. Then they glare at you when you tell them to clean up.
Nice to be the guy that signs the checks though... :-)

They expect you to have cleaning people. They figure it's not their job to clean. I actually would rather they spend the time on the electrical at $120 per hour instead of cleaning at $15

I would agree except then they expect you to do everything for them. It was a matter of principle as much as anything for me. I would put it in their Contract and make them initial it.
0 Reply
David M.
Morris County, NJ · Member since 2020 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Michael Evans:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

The worst subs were always the electricians for me....little bits of wire stripping and cut pieces everywhere. Then they glare at you when you tell them to clean up.
Nice to be the guy that signs the checks though... :-)

They expect you to have cleaning people. They figure it's not their job to clean. I actually would rather they spend the time on the electrical at $120 per hour instead of cleaning at $15

@Michael Evans
Yeah, but its still a matter of professionalism, and why should you have to pay somebody $15/hr to clean after them?? My electrician cleans up his stuff. he and his helper actually put all the 'stripped insulation bits' and small clippings straight into their pockets.
1 Reply
Mike Bussing
Montrose, CO · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 5 votes
4y
@Kyle Robarts
I’ve been a builder for 20 plus years and have owned Drywall company for 30 years
GC should provide dumpster with in 90 feet of project
The GC should have in his contract for subs to do daily cleanup for safety reasons
Most houses in our area the Drywall contractor hauls his own scraps off. If it commercial or homes over 5k SF the drywall contractor puts in his contract to use GC dumpster or if job is far away.
It should be spelled out in your Build contract
3 Reply
Steve K.
Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
Good luck getting subs to clean up after themselves! Especially electricians are the worst, they are too good to clean up (and I guess that’s correct because at their hourly rate it’s more cost effective to have pretty much anybody else on the job site clean up). When I was a carpenter/contractor we always had a younger/ apprentice type person who would mostly do clean up and fill in wherever else as needed. I actually started as that person, until someone else greener than me was hired on and I picked up more skills I mostly just cleaned and moved material around the job site.
1 Reply
Roarke Van Brunt
Contractor · Portland OR · Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 24 votes
4y
@Kyle Robarts if you contracted the GC for the whole job then yes it is their responsibility, check your contract that it says so. That being said, if YOU contracted a sub outside of the scope the GC is responsible for, the answer is that you are fully responsible for dealing with that sub and their mess. Don't expect the GC to work for free when you didn't give them that scope.

Make sure you have contract language on daily cleaning, key words to use are "daily basis", "broom cleaning or equivalent" and "removal from worksite" Make it apply to (rubbish, waste materials, tools, construction equipment, machinery, and surplus materials), and include a statement of back charge of cost plus 10% if you have to perform the cleaning.

Even then that only really works on a sub who's scope is big enough to warrant it. Expect to do most if not all of the cleaning on a house build or any commercial project that is less that one million dollars in my experience. Once scopes start getting larger as projects increase in size each contractor is making too much mess for them to expect someone else do deal with it, cleanliness at that point actually makes them more efficient so its in their self interest usually, and basic tidying/cleanup should be expected. I tend to get annoyed at any sub with a scope over $150k that leaves junk everywhere. Usually the economics help at the larger scale, and things come back to bite too. If I keep having to pay cleaners for you, then you show up one day playing lawyer to get a change order approved. Watch how fast I charge you back for all the cleaning.

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Kyle Robarts
OP
Rental Property Investor · Hewitt, TX · Member since 2020 · 27 posts · 17 votes
4y

@Roarke Van Brunt - thanks for the advice, very informative.
0 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Roarke Van Brunt:

If I keep having to pay cleaners for you, then you show up one day playing lawyer to get a change order approved. Watch how fast I charge you back for all the cleaning.

Yep, the ultimate tool...the Charge Back!
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