Investor · Molalla, OR · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 23 votes
9y
I would say if you get 60 years on galvanized countyour self very lucky. I recommend that a corrosion analysis (I like to used the Baylis curve) should be done when you are doing due diligence for a park that has galvanized pipe. Here are the factors that we look at that contribute to the life of galvanized pipe: Internal corrosion or mineral build up is dependent primarily on the following factors assuming we are talking about cold water.
Ph of water, Alkalinity of water / hardness of the water
Corrosion will also be increase in there is high levels of sulfur, dissolved oxygen,... Iron bacteria can lead to corrosion and build up at the same time.
All Cities and many parks with or without their own wells are required to test for Lead and Copper this is really just a measure of the corrosive nature of the water being put through the system. We always check these results as they can give you some decent information.
Most public water system treat their water to minimize corrosion and generally try to maintain a ph of 7.20 or greater and may add additional chemicals to create a protective layer inside their mainlines. The Flint Michigan water crisis was created because of a change of water source (new source had lower ph and a higher chloride level both created a highly corrosive water that dissolved the pipes).
External corrosion factors (these factors usually create a electrical charge difference between the pipe and the soil leading to corrosion caused by electrolysis) : Soil type: generally the more clay the higher the rate of corrosion, volcanic soils tend to be more corrosive, high water table, electrical lines. Soils with high sand content are usually less corrosive. Pipe transitions from galvanized to copper or bronze suffer horribly from electrolysis (at water meters).
Galvanized pipes are a ticking bomb that will need to addressed and should be budgeted for accordingly.
For water, most people are shying away from galvanized steel pipes because they eventually corrode on the inside.
Standard is copper. But people are starting to use PEX and also CPVC. PEX is about 45% of the market and CPVC about 16% of the market.
PEX and CPVC can handle higher temps (up to 180-200 degrees Fahrenheit) than regular PVC. PVC isn't allowed to be used with water heaters. But you can use CPVC and PEX following proper manufacturing installation instructions.
Thing about PEX and CPVC, you don't have to worry about getting pin hole leaks like you do with copper or galvanized steel pipes and installation is easier.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 524 posts · 148 votes
9y
Christopher Phillips I'm in diligence on this park right now. A lot of good things going for this park, but this is the one bad thing about it (there are a few other bad things about it but nothing major). Do you think I should walk away from the deal because of the galvanized pipes? It's better than Orangeburg lol!
Investor · Molalla, OR · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 23 votes
9y
I would say if you get 60 years on galvanized countyour self very lucky. I recommend that a corrosion analysis (I like to used the Baylis curve) should be done when you are doing due diligence for a park that has galvanized pipe. Here are the factors that we look at that contribute to the life of galvanized pipe: Internal corrosion or mineral build up is dependent primarily on the following factors assuming we are talking about cold water.
Ph of water, Alkalinity of water / hardness of the water
Corrosion will also be increase in there is high levels of sulfur, dissolved oxygen,... Iron bacteria can lead to corrosion and build up at the same time.
All Cities and many parks with or without their own wells are required to test for Lead and Copper this is really just a measure of the corrosive nature of the water being put through the system. We always check these results as they can give you some decent information.
Most public water system treat their water to minimize corrosion and generally try to maintain a ph of 7.20 or greater and may add additional chemicals to create a protective layer inside their mainlines. The Flint Michigan water crisis was created because of a change of water source (new source had lower ph and a higher chloride level both created a highly corrosive water that dissolved the pipes).
External corrosion factors (these factors usually create a electrical charge difference between the pipe and the soil leading to corrosion caused by electrolysis) : Soil type: generally the more clay the higher the rate of corrosion, volcanic soils tend to be more corrosive, high water table, electrical lines. Soils with high sand content are usually less corrosive. Pipe transitions from galvanized to copper or bronze suffer horribly from electrolysis (at water meters).
Galvanized pipes are a ticking bomb that will need to addressed and should be budgeted for accordingly.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 524 posts · 148 votes
9y
Phillip Merrill got it. Thank you for that comprehensive information. So would it be better to replace the whole thing with PVC or repair when there are leaks? What are the ball park costs for both. This park in question is about 6.5 acres.
Investor · Molalla, OR · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 23 votes
9y
Use the google earth measuring tool to guess footage to replumb the whole thing. How many homes are there? This will give you an idea of main line pipe size then you can get some estimates to replumb it. Feel free to pm me if you need more help. My day job is management and operation of drinking water and waste water systems.
Investor · Georgetown, MA · Member since 2017 · 71 posts · 26 votes
9y
@Gulliver R. I had asked the age of the pipes because you don't necessarily have to dig the pipes up anymore to fix them and this can be huge cost savings. I have had trenchless pipe repair done and this can really save a headache. If you're going to get an estimate it may be worth looking into this because you can avoid ripping up pavement and lawns. Trust me, a contractor will be more than willing to dig up your property and the street not even mention that they didn't have to do it. This is very common these days and the repair can last for 50 years.
It's not suitable for every situation, but worth looking into in my opinion.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 524 posts · 148 votes
9y
Tyler Libby are you referring to pipe bursting aka the Tric method? Yes, I'm familiar with the method. I'm not sure the cost to doing that but I've heard it's suppose to be much cheaper than the old way. How much did you pay for your pipe bursting work done?
San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Gulliver R. Most mobile home park owners I know repair when there are leaks versus replacing the whole system. Unless you've got major issues with the pipes, it could be a more cost effective route. Good luck!
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 524 posts · 148 votes
9y
Tyler Libby gotta love Google! And wow that is pretty affordable! $1500 is much better than $15,000 lol!! Pipe bursting it is!
And yes Rachel H. I agree with you: I wouldn't replace if I can just repair if it's more reasonable. I just like to know the replacement cost just in case.
Thank you all!
Investor · Molalla, OR · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 23 votes
9y
Yes there are pipe bursting (heads) equipment that can haddle galvanized pipe. The catch is alot of mobile home parks have small i.e. less than 2" galvanized pipe. The equipment to work on sub 2" pipe exsists but most likely the galvanized pipe would be pulled out not burst
Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2012 · 108 posts · 49 votes
9y
We are getting ready to put new water lines in our 45 space park within the 6 months. Existing pipes are 50+ year old galvanized. In just the past 6 months we've had more than $5,000 in water leaks and about $10,000 in the past 1.5 years. At this point there is no choice but to replace them. Not sure the exact cost as we are still in the planning phase (utility locating, surveying, and mapping out the best/least expensive route).
Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2012 · 108 posts · 49 votes
9y
@Andriy Boychuk. We have used American leak detection before. They are very expensive. Then there is the actual cost to dig and repair each leak. We operated for a few years with very few leaks, fixing as they happened. At some point it makes sense to repipe. I'm confident when we sell our park we will recoup the money we put in.
Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 524 posts · 148 votes
9y
Phillip Merrill do you happen to know ball park what it would cost to replace pipes via pipe bursting for a 28 space park on about 2.5 acres? The homes are fairly close to one another.
Investor · Molalla, OR · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 23 votes
9y
What size pipe? Pipe cost is usually only a fraction of the cost labor is usually 80% or more. Depending on soils and other utilities a 2 man excavating team should be able to dig and lay 200 feet a day. West coast price is $ 1000 a day for a two man team, dump truck, trackhoe. Pipe not included. Should be able to get 2" schedule 40 pvc for less than $2.00 per foot 4" class 900 for sub $8.00 a foot. So you get the idea. Labor is the killer for excavation.
Galvanized and ductile iron are not really the best canidates for pipe bursting. You will find a lot of parks with mainline that is way undersized and you may want to upside it at replacement. What alot of people miss is even with pipe bursting on pressurized lines is you have to dig down at each service and mannually attach the service. With cure in place pipe lining you send a robot to down the mainline to cut out each service. Cure in place is great for large sewer mains.
San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Check to see if there's been any work done on the pipes. If so, talk to the contractors who've done the work. They'll know the real deal. Also, the park manager may have some insight for you as well. Good luck!