Double Close and CRAZY fees with off market property

Double Close and CRAZY fees with off market property

New to Real Estate · Valencia, CA · Member since 2022 · 26 posts · 11 votes

So this is a question and a rant at the same time.  My husband and I just bought a property for $162,500 from a wholesale broker.  This was our first so we did not understand all the fees.  I attempted to talk to ALL parties to get the low down, including broker/agent, lender and title.  The broker/agent said closing was 2-3% but never could tell me which one or how they determine.  I also asked if there were any additional fees, such as title or lawyers, etc. and the answer was no.  I get my settlement statement and I owe 4% to broker 😒, closing fee to the seller (fine print in contract that was my mistake), $3,000k to title (some of which sounds ridiculous!) and of course lenders fees.  So, by the time I refi, I have to get a loan for at least $210K to pay my lender, and myself back for out of pocket costs (rehab costs too).  This deal will work out because I am able to charge a decent rent and rehab is light, etc.

My question is this -- is this due to a double close?  Was it the broker/agents responsibility to explain the A->B, B->C process and potential additional title fees, or do they assume the title company will explain it?  Can I negotiate with title in the future?  Feels like I was depending on people to walk me through and now I feel a little stupid.  (Please, no need to confirm!) #rookie

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Hamp Lee IIIPro Member
Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 832 votes
3y

You’ve learned a lot of lessons from this project, but congrats to you and your husband for taking action. Though there might have been some high fees, you were still able to come out in the green. Many are not as fortunate.

Thank you for sharing (and ranting). Your story helps the community grow.

I wish you all the best as you continue your investing journey!

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  • Randall AlanPro Member
    Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Kate Purse:

    So this is a question and a rant at the same time.  My husband and I just bought a property for $162,500 from a wholesale broker.  This was our first so we did not understand all the fees.  I attempted to talk to ALL parties to get the low down, including broker/agent, lender and title.  The broker/agent said closing was 2-3% but never could tell me which one or how they determine.  I also asked if there were any additional fees, such as title or lawyers, etc. and the answer was no.  I get my settlement statement and I owe 4% to broker 😒, closing fee to the seller (fine print in contract that was my mistake), $3,000k to title (some of which sounds ridiculous!) and of course lenders fees.  So, by the time I refi, I have to get a loan for at least $210K to pay my lender, and myself back for out of pocket costs (rehab costs too).  This deal will work out because I am able to charge a decent rent and rehab is light, etc.

    My question is this -- is this due to a double close?  Was it the broker/agents responsibility to explain the A->B, B->C process and potential additional title fees, or do they assume the title company will explain it?  Can I negotiate with title in the future?  Feels like I was depending on people to walk me through and now I feel a little stupid.  (Please, no need to confirm!) #rookie


    @Kate Purse

     First off, the double close is done to keep you from knowing how much the wholesaler made in the first part of the deal (which often means “a lot!” if they are wanting to double close.)

    Frequently the terms of the sale will say  “buyer pays all fees and closing costs.  This gets expensive when closing twice and is a way the wholesaler makes even more money as they get their whole amount minus nothing (thanks to their ‘generous buyer’).

    You always want to ask your wholesaler if this will be a single or double close.  The alternative is to ask them to let you assume the contract for a fee… which precludes the double close… but if they don’t want you to know their deal with the original sale they won’t want to do that.  

    Title charges are probably less your problem as it is commissions and county taxes and such which you likely paid twice as well.  You likely won’t have much traction trying to negotiate any of those, but you can always ask.  

    It’s pretty much a newbie situation just not understanding what “buyer pays all fees exactly means”  next time you’ll know.   if YOU had an agent they should have probably mentioned  it to you… but they may have assumed you understood the terms of the sale and what they meant.  Everyone else but you probably has dealt with this and may have known what it meant.  So may have been an assumption oversight?

    Been there, done that…. ONCE!

    All the best!

    Randy 

  • Hamp Lee IIIPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 832 votes
    3y

    You’ve learned a lot of lessons from this project, but congrats to you and your husband for taking action. Though there might have been some high fees, you were still able to come out in the green. Many are not as fortunate.

    Thank you for sharing (and ranting). Your story helps the community grow.

    I wish you all the best as you continue your investing journey!

  • Real Estate Agent · Boise, ID · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 888 votes
    3y

    @Kate Purse sounds like you got a pretty good deal on some education. A lot to unpack, but in short you need to know what you are signing up for. Sounds like there were a lot of hands in this deal, and you got stuck paying it all. without knowing all the details of the deal it is hard to say, but not sure why you need a broker if they aren't working for you, and a wholesaler unless they locked up a listed property and resold it. Might be worth having an broker/ agent on your side next time to help you understand what you are actually getting into.

    Either way congrats sounds like the deal will work out great!

  • New to Real Estate · Valencia, CA · Member since 2022 · 26 posts · 11 votes
    3y

    I really appreciate the feedback!  I did learn a lot, but I'm not going to let it get me down.  Looking forward to the next one (with NO DOUBLE CLOSE)!

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