Seeking advice regarding purchasing 2nd home

Seeking advice regarding purchasing 2nd home

Charleston, SC · Member since 2014 · 4 posts · 0 votes

I was hoping to ask you all a money/real estate question. It has to do with buying a second home (primary residence).

Here's the scenario: I'm active duty military and currently live overseas. My wife and I own a home from our previous assignment. It has stayed consistently rented since we moved over here. It's been great and we have 3 years of documented/consistent rental income on the property. We have a rental management company and honestly it's been an outstanding experience. However, we bought near the real estate peak and with the past downturn in the market, it's considerably underwater (owe $188k; worth maybe $140k). As we prep to go back to the States this year, I'm trying to weigh rent vs. buy. Obviously that'll depend a lot on where we move, but I'm trying to prep for a scenario that we CAN afford a home there and we actually want a home there. Our first home is with a VA loan. I'm told that because we didn't take the full amount we could have for a VA loan ($417k), that I still have available funds through that program (roughly $217k remaining). There's a complicated formula that the VA uses to determine this but I believe I've done my math correctly. Obviously all of this depends on IF a lender decides we're worth the risk. My wife and I recently ran our credit reports and our middle scores are 824 (me) and 787 (wife). The only debts we have are the house ($188k) and my student loans ($110k @ 3.375%). Previously we'd been focusing hard on reducing those student loans and they've come down considerably in the last 4 years. However, with the pending move, I've paused paying the student loans to start building down payment money in case we decide to buy. Here is where I project we will stand by the time we move:

$60k cash

$50k Roth IRAs

$30k traditional IRA

$17k military Thrift Savings plan

Debt-to-income ratio: 29% with my yearly bonus factored in (bonus is always the same amount and is guaranteed)

Debt-to-income ratio: 33% without my yearly bonus factored in

We don’t want to touch the retirement funds but I understand they can be considered as “cash reserves”? Just like with the last home, my thought is we would like to live in it for 4 years and then, when we move again, rent it out.

I think my bottom line questions are as follows:

    1.Is it even likely that a lender will give us a second loan?

    2.Is it even worth the risk or is it more advisable to just rent this next assignment (4 years) and keep chugging away at the student loans? Why?

    3.How should I be calculating my debt to income ratio considering I get a one-time yearly bonus? I’m assuming, because of the bonus, I should look at my gross YEARLY income and divide by 12 but just wanted to double check. Again, the bonus is a set amount and guaranteed.

Thanks! All opinions welcomed! Standing by to provide more info as needed.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Powell, OH · Member since 2010 · 12 posts · 1 vote
    12y

    Hi there! I would suggest purchasing again if you can find a good deal where you buy below market value. My wife and I did the same thing and now rent out two of our past homes...only one had a VA loan attached to it.

    I don't think you will have any problem at all getting a mortgage and if you are able to go the VA route again(I thought you could only have 1 mortgage, we may have missed out on that opportunity) you shouldn't need much of a down payment. If you do it might make sense to take money from your roth if allowed but I think that has to be for first time home buyer. Looks like you have enough cash you don't even need to...I just wish I had years ago as the market tanked right after we bought our first house. I had a chance to pull roth funds out for down payment before they evaporated but didn't.

    I would take advantage of your good credit and relatively low rates to invest in another home where you will be able to rent it out in the future for a return that surpasses the small student loan rate that is tax deductible. (If you are comfortable with that and run the numbers)

    My brother in law is military(they moved every 4 years) and they bought several homes in DC and Florida to have residence in FL for tax purposes and eventual retirement. It has worked pretty good for them. They just rented overseas and in other areas of the country that they had no desire to stay.

    Good luck!

  • Kenneth HynesPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Easton, PA · Member since 2013 · 359 posts · 92 votes
    12y

    Welcome to Big Pockets Jonathon . I am also AD military and having been doing the buy - present duty station , then rent it out when I leave. Though I haven't used my VA benefit yet, I think you are on the right track about saving for a down payment. It depends where you get stationed on what the local market looks like and how much house you can afford

    Whenever I have applied for new mortgages at my new duty station , lenders were more interested in income / monthly payment ratio more than what each of the previous house were worth (though I was never underwater on any of them) does your debt / income ratio provided include your monthly rent checks as well as the mortgage payments , and is that a positive cash flow ?

    There are mortgage specialists here in BP that can give you ore information / guidance

    Ken

  • Charleston, SC · Member since 2014 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    "does your debt / income ratio provided include your monthly rent checks as well as the mortgage payments , and is that a positive cash flow?"

    Ken, I calculated the ratio with the following debts: current overseas rent + stateside mortgage payment + student loans. Income was listed as my military income + rental income. The rental income is slightly more than the mortgage but by the end of the year, we're closer to just breaking even due to various repairs etc.

    Thanks both for your replies! I'll read them more thoroughly later. For now, my little one is begging me to play :)

  • Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 28 votes
    12y

    Hi @Jonathan F.

    Welcome to BP! This is a great community that will almost always have an answer for you. I'm still fairly new myself so I'm sure some of the more seasoned folks will happily come behind me and clarify a little more.

    With regards to the VA situation; it's dependant on where you buy. Typically, yes, the cap is $417k and you are right that you can use another VA to purchase a new Primary Residence, so long as it is just that. You said you and your wife plan on living in it for the duration of your next tour so I don't see that being an issue. I'm still a little cloudy on their math, as you mentioned, but depending on where you're buying (I see you registered your location as Charleston) you shouldn't have a problem finding a home in the price range you have available.

    This is where I may need some backup; you have had your current property rented out for three years. Have you claimed the rental income on your taxes? Is your rental income greater than your mortgage payment (and your PM charges). You may be underwater, but if your tenants are fully covering your mortgage, you should be alright. Unless I'm misunderstanding the lender I'm working with on my latest acquisition - after the first two years of rental history being recorded on your taxes, your mortgage is no longer added to the Debt portion of your DTI, it is countered by your rental income and anything over your mortgage is moved to the Income portion of this ratio. (Please BP, correct me if I'm incorrect!)

    Depending on the DTI calculator you use (monthly or annually) add your bonus as additional income. (Clearly I need to move to a new AFSC/MOS if you're getting guaranteed bonuses every year, haha) The one I use is based on monthly net income.

    As far as the risk level of buying a second home, that all comes down to you and your wifes comfortability. Some folks prefer to be very conservative, and others are aggressively risky. Have a sit down with her and see what you're both comfortable with.

    I hope some of this helped and didn't make things worse. If you have any other questions, be sure to post them up and someone will get you an answer.

    Anthony

  • Charleston, SC · Member since 2014 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    12y
    Anthony Martin thanks for the reply. All of this is definitely helpful! I'm of the same understanding as you with regard to debt/income. With my home pretty much breaking even (as reflected in my taxes), I suspect it will neither help or hurt significantly. We'll see! Regarding AFSCs, I'm a medic so anything extra I make just goes to the student loans usually :)
  • Investor · Statewide, MO · Member since 2011 · 819 posts · 427 votes
    12y

    Having rushed to buy and having purchased the wrong home for the wrong price, I would discourage you from buying upon your return, should you return to an area you're not thoroughly familiar with.

    I also have watched a peer that rented for 12-18 months, decided he and his family would stay go out and get exactly the home they wanted for a great price.

    I'm quite envious of how my friends hand played out. We're looking to move out of our money pit after just a few years.

    It's really foolish to make a hurried decision on buying a home if you're not certain you will be there for awhile and if you don't know the town and how your needs may affect where you want your family to live.

    If you decide to buy, I would be shocked beyond belief if you were refused a loan. They may underwrite the living crap out of you, because the banks are a bunch of idiots, but you'll be able to get a loan. Try amerisave. They have had by far the best terms of anywhere I have looked. Their underwriting was painful, but we also saved a truckload of money along the way.

    If your goal is debt elimination, you know Ramsey would tell you to sell your previous home and get out of it...

    Good luck

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