Suicide Discount

Specialist · Greenville, SC · Member since 2014 · 149 posts · 67 votes

Odd topic but real question. My partner just called asking what we should offer on a house. Absentee Motivated seller with recent suicide in her house. Any idea's

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James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

12y

As low as you think you can get them to take.

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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
12y
As low as you think you can get them to take.
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Brad Price
Homeowner · Freeland, WA · Member since 2013 · 3 posts · 0 votes
12y
My wife and I moved into a nice home in the 80's when we first married. The owners wife had been murdered upstairs. We were asked not to go into that room as it had not remodeled. It was creepy and we moved out in 3-4 months. So whoever ends up with the house will have to be ok with it.

Do you plan to live in it? Flip it or rent it ?
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Nettles Mason
OP
Specialist · Greenville, SC · Member since 2014 · 149 posts · 67 votes
12y
@bradprice

we are going to lease option to buy and sell. No mortgage, so owner financing is what we will be proposing.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@James Wise @Nettles Mason

One of my saddest days was when I bought a foreclosures in Oregon I had 2 events.. One an attempted suicide by the wife.. She never told her husband that they lost the house and he learned one day when after she had rented it back for a year it was time for them to move on as I wanted to sell it.

And the other was one where the gentlemen commited suicide on the day of the eviction.. he did it in the backyard . But when I had to be there with the police. No answer the policemen went in saw items on the kitchen table and told me to go back to my car. Very sad day.. I had let this guy live there for about 4 months for free as he was a vet... And he did have a place to go ( his parents) His mother called me sometime after the event and said he was never the same from when he got back from Active duty...

Its a tough bizz this foreclosure bizz
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Craig McGowan
New York , NY · Member since 2012 · 4 posts · 1 vote
12y
Check what the laws are in your state concerning stigmatized properties. Many states (New York for example) don't require the disclosure of stigmatized properties, even if a potential buyer requests information about it.

If you live in a non-disclosure state, you can use the suicide as leverage for a lower purchase price from the seller since they already disclosed it to you. When it comes time for you to sell it, since no disclosure is required the suicide won't lower your asking price.

Once you get it under contract, make sure you confirm proper procedure was followed following the suicide (she will have documentation if this is the case). Many states require a certified bio-hazard team to come and clean up if it was a suicide with bodily fluids involved,(blood from gun shot, cutting etc.) though if it was a hanging or OD a bio-hazard team is generally not required. Bio-hazard teams are expensive so you don't want that cost eating into your potential profit.

Good luck!
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Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Brad Price:
My wife and I moved into a nice home in the 80's when we first married. The owners wife had been murdered upstairs. We were asked not to go into that room as it had not remodeled. It was creepy and we moved out in 3-4 months. So whoever ends up with the house will have to be ok with it.
Do you plan to live in it? Flip it or rent it ?

You moved into the house before it had been remodeled or when you were looking at it to move into it hadn't been remodeled? Personally I would never live in a house that somebody had died in. But that's just me. Years ago, I lived in an apartment, in the apartment under us, the guy had been murdered on Halloween while I was home. I never heard the gunshot as I had drank a few beers and gone to bed early. There was some weird stuff that happened in my apartment is all I can say. I believe in ghosts after living there after that happened.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Brian Mathews the reality is if you think of all the folks that pass away from heart attacks at home.. or in hospice situations. these are not thought of as someone passing away in a home. this is why its not required to disclose these in RE disclosure docs.. nature happens.. The suicide, murder and we as society then put the hex and those homes.
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Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
@Brian Mathews the reality is if you think of all the folks that pass away from heart attacks at home.. or in hospice situations. these are not thought of as someone passing away in a home. this is why its not required to disclose these in RE disclosure docs.. nature happens.. The suicide, murder and we as society then put the hex and those homes.

I don't care how they passed. If they passed in the house itself, I'm not interested. But that's just me. My wife and I looked at a house a year ago or so. Interesting house, but the front yard had a family graveyard in half the yard. The first grave was from early 1800s, last person buried there was 1990s. Several children buried there as well. I Googled the graveyard and learned it's history, very interesting to tell you the truth. Apparently the 20 known people buried there may not have been all the bodies, in the 1800s, it was very common for neighbors to bury their dead in personal graveyards and they weren't required to mark the graves. Not buying that house.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Brian Mathews I hear ya my point is so many folks pass away from HA and end stage cancer ( Hospice) that there is no way to know if someone has passed in a home.

I know personally my father, father in law and mother in law, plus many other family members passed away peacefully at home with their loving family at their sides.
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Nettles Mason
OP
Specialist · Greenville, SC · Member since 2014 · 149 posts · 67 votes
12y
So, from what I am seeing there may be a point for negotiation. I can see some people do not want to buy a house that had “bad things” happen in it, which makes it more difficult to sell because of the smaller buying pool.

Can anybody offer a reasonable discount?

A bad roof $5000 discount

Carpet &interior paint $2500

A stigma from “an unfortunate incident” in a small town?
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
That is a very interesting story @Brian Matthews, the thing is from settlers times, you never know where those graves are. There is a chance you could have owned such a thing and not known it. I seen a county history book that told about this, where a family member was buried on the property. It probably wouldnt hurt to go through a history lesson of your area to avoid things like this.
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
Also, the only thing im sure of is if there was a violent murder or something, i'd demolish the house. Its no good to harbor negative energy.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@Ryan Watson Ryan the problem with demo ing a home in almost all the cash flow markets and sub 100k homes is the LOTS are WORTHLESS..

To replace any kind of home would cost double quadriple what you folks pay for homes in your markets..

So if you buy a 40k home that rents for 700 a month..... there is no replacement value except for a catastrophic loss ( fire).. you could not rebuild that home for double what you folks pay for these cash flow homes in the mid west and East.
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Nettles Mason
OP
Specialist · Greenville, SC · Member since 2014 · 149 posts · 67 votes
12y
@Ryan Watson demolish it?

My summer job in high school was fixing move outs in a war zones. I could patch or cover up any bullet hole but birdshot. That would require a sheet rocker to come in.

If demolition was the only option certain area codes would look like abandoned strip mines

I would think renting an apartment in a war zoneis different than selling a house to a buyer in a good part of town.
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
You'll think its fun and games until a steak knife flys off the kitchen counter by itself and sticks in a wall with a near miss. People mention hauntings in this thread. Something keeps all that around. I dont care how big of a loss it is. Im sure the person next door would love to have an extra yard if anything.

Thats the whole point of getting the price low to me. Remember that sick bastard that horded those women in Cleveland Ohio? The city tore that place down quickly.
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
12y

I ain't affraid of no ghost
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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Ryan Watson I understand a little how you feel, but as a volunteer fireman for over 25 years I have been to dozens of fatal accidents many in certain areas. Despite one area that has seen probably one fatality every year or two I still drive that road. The sentiment can be weird but the reality is folks often have to live with it and move on.
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
It doesnt cost that much to demolish a house. Buying it would cost more.
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
12y
The lots are usually worthless as after the house is gone. Neighbors don't really want them. It increases their taxes.
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Jerry W.:
@Ryan Watson I understand a little how you feel, but as a volunteer fireman for over 25 years I have been to dozens of fatal accidents many in certain areas. Despite one area that has seen probably one fatality every year or two I still drive that road. The sentiment can be weird but the reality is folks often have to live with it and move on.

True. If it was a nice area i could see where its questionable, however there are some areas where demolishing would fit. Such as run down neighborhoods, where the houses are too close together, and the city would like to clean up the neighborhood. I think that would be a unique approach, if you could wait it out and play the monopoly board for a while. Perhaps you could come up with a new type of housing that would fit in with the area and help bring things up? New great things start with letting go of past, bad memories. At least thats how i feel about a niche market potential, however to each his own. If someone would like to live with it and let be, it happens.
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
The lots are usually worthless as after the house is gone. Neighbors don't really want them. It increases their taxes.

Yea but to alot of people a bigger yard is worth a 100 dollar tax hike for all the extra space they get, maybe a chance to build a nice garage instead of a shotgun house/lot situation.. Its not like its another 2000 dollars.
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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
12y
@Ryan Watson I hear what your saying. Unfortunately some of time in the cities (where the lots are like postage stamps) the city doesn't let you build another building on the lot.

In low income areas half the time the garage from the 1st yard is torn down because nobody took care of it. & that doesn't even get replaced.

It'd really depend on the quality of the neighborhood and the city restrictions if the lot held any value or not.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
12y
@James Wise even the cheapest builders have about a 65 a foot cost to build thats no profit....so when folks are buying 50k house s 1200 sq ft there is no way to replace them .. and in most places you have to pay 65 plus demo costs p
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Ryan Watson
New to Real Estate · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 170 posts · 23 votes
12y
@James Wise; Wow, i cant believe a city would make rules so stupid? Why would they do that? Which cities do this? I'll make note to stay away from them. Not being able to rebuild anything is beyond stupid.

So this also means that if you get 4 or 5 lots together you cant come up with something?
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Rick H.
Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
If your personal belief is that you'd be uncomfortable living in a house when a death occurred, then o.k., so noted. Pass on such an opportunity if this really bothers you.

However, the house doesn't care what happened! Do you realize that almost every house built before 1950 or so involves a deceased owner at some time or another?

I've owned property with some pretty gruesome situations. Many were quite unpleasant and do not need to be discussed in graphic detail. The responsible thing to do is to correctly eliminate any trace of the problem so as to not be noticeable. This might require removing floorboards, sealing concrete slabs or cutting sections of drywall, all with the intent of fixing the physical damage.

Now, here's the other problem. You might as well recognize that a buyer will sooner of later learn of any prior death. Our policy is to disclose, whether legally required or not. Some people and some cultures are more sensitive than others.

Some people can put a price on such an issue and you may be able to discount the resale price by another 5% or so and make them happy. Nowadays, I have lots of experiences to provide sellers who expect me to pay retail. When we finish our discussions they typically can't close fast enough, on my terms.

I like to completely remodel such a house with bright, happy colors target to sell to young couples with families. They want bedrooms, not ghost stories.
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