House with tobacco smoke smell--help!

Buying & Selling Real Estate
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House with tobacco smoke smell--help!

Daniel Rubenstein
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 0 votes

Hi all,

My wife and I are planning on moving to Las vegas. We found a nice home in the area that we want to live in. Problem is, the previous owners were major smokers and the house reeks like smoke. The tried washing the carpets but still smells heavily. Besides the smell they are listing the house at about 20-25K above highest comp in the area. It was repainted last year, and kitchen redone, but definitely not worth the 365k they are asking for it. The average comp in the area is about 330k

We ask a smoke and fire damage expert if they can clean the house of the smell, paint with kilz, and guarantee the smell will be gone, and they said no guarantee.

The sellers said they will not pay to clean the house of the smell unless we sign a deal. The problem is, without a guarantee, if we pay to clean the smell and the house still smells, we are out a lot of money.

So the question (or questions) is:

1) Has anyone had really bad smoke smell from over 15 years of smoking, and successfully totally removed the smell? if so how?

2) Any creative ideas for structuring the deal so we can try cleaning the house and somehow for sure get our money back from the sellers for the cleaning even if it doesn't work?

3) Should we really bother? Its one of only a few houses available in the area we want to live, and we need to move in the next couple months.

Anyways, whatever help or guidance anyone can provide us will very much appreciated. We really do not know what to do!

Thanks!!

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Brian Gibbons
Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y

Like @Matt Devincenzo said,

Get a diff house, dont be emotional, write the low offer and factor in the "hassle costs" of supervising that to get it done correctly.

Think about re sale too, what if you had to disclose that on the resale?

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  • George P.
    Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    wash, wash, killz, paint. there are also ozone machines/fans that eliminate smoke/smells. many contractors have them. not sure they exact name. you can rent them..

    0Reply
  • Matt Devincenzo
    Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Yes it can be done, no it isn't easy. If you want to know the thorough process do a search here, there is a thread that is 3-4 pages long on what you need to do. It will take about 2 weeks between the cleaning, painting (with a shellac primer not KILZ) and ozone generator to get rid of the smell.

    Personally at 15% over comps and this issue.....I'd go look for a different house.

    1Reply
  • Brian Gibbons
    Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Like @Matt Devincenzo said,

    Get a diff house, dont be emotional, write the low offer and factor in the "hassle costs" of supervising that to get it done correctly.

    Think about re sale too, what if you had to disclose that on the resale?

    2Reply
  • Mike S.
    Investor · Los Angeles , CA · Member since 2014 · 132 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    @Daniel Rubenstein

    If the seller claims they will take care of odor removal get it under contract with a contingency, make it clear that if the odor is not gone by the the contingency you will not purchase the property, also make it clear that YOU will make the final determination with regards to the final status of the odor.

    If you feel the house is overpriced then offer what you think its worth, you can always move to Vegas rent a place and wait for a place that better suits you and your family.

    Good Luck!

    0Reply
  • Daniel Rubenstein
    OP
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 0 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Brian Gibbons:
    Like @Matt Devincenzo said,

    Get a diff house, dont be emotional, write the low offer and factor in the "hassle costs" of supervising that to get it done correctly.

    Think about re sale too, what if you had to disclose that on the resale?

    Thanks for the tips all!

    The thing is we havent found any house nearby that we like. We have a small 1 mile radius and only a couple months to find something. There arent even any rentals nearby!

    Also, are you sure we have to disclose in a resale? If we clean the smell up even %95 do we have to disclose? They can discover in their own by inspecting the house.

    And in terms of being %15 above list, what about putting in an offer at average comp of 330k, and maybe get some money from them somehow for the cleaning costs and repainting? Any ideas on how to structure a deal without affecting down payment (putting down %20 to get better rate) and financing? Maybe like 6 months of seller paying mortgage? Like a lease option/purchase? Any other ideas?

    0Reply
  • Brian Gibbons
    Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Geez seriously ? You know what a sellers disclosure form looks like?
    0Reply
  • Daniel Rubenstein
    OP
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 0 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Brian Gibbons:
    Geez seriously ? You know what a sellers disclosure form looks like?

    No. Please explain. The seller on this house did not disclose anything about the smoking or smoke smell. Is that a legal obligation of the seller? I am new to all this. I have never seen a disclosure form, but I am sure you have seen a lot and can tell me what theu have to disclose or not.

    Thanks

    0Reply
  • Jean BolgerPro Member
    Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    If you (like me) are at the more sensitive end of the spectrum of "hate the smell of smoke" then just don't try to make this house work for you. It would involve a MAJOR MAJOR remediation and even then you may not be satisfied. It's certainly not something you should even consider asking the sellers to do for you. They'll say "The smell is gone!" You'll say "No, it's not!" .... and then what? Could be a nightmare.


    There are other threads on BP about smoke remediation that you could read if you do a search. Hopefully they would make it clear what a problem this can be.

    0Reply
  • Mike S.
    Investor · Los Angeles , CA · Member since 2014 · 132 posts · 25 votes
    12y

    @Daniel Rubenstein

    Disclosing that you purchased a house from a smoker (and the smell is gone) is not a big deal if you discover mold or other hazards where the EPA is involved then that becomes a more serious concern to potential buyers and could impact your sales price.

    How long has the house been on the market? has their been a price haircut?

    0Reply
  • Jarrett Harris
    Calumet City, IL · Member since 2014 · 312 posts · 49 votes
    12y

    @Daniel Rubenstein

    You might want to try an ozone generator

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=ozone+generator&sprefix=ozone+gener%2Caps%2C197&rh=n%3A1055398%2Ck%3Aozone+generator

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jean Bolger:
    If you (like me) are at the more sensitive end of the spectrum of "hate the smell of smoke" then just don't try to make this house work for you. It would involve a MAJOR MAJOR remediation and even then you may not be satisfied. It's certainly not something you should even consider asking the sellers to do for you. They'll say "The smell is gone!" You'll say "No, it's not!" .... and then what? Could be a nightmare.


    There are other threads on BP about smoke remediation that you could read if you do a search. Hopefully they would make it clear what a problem this can be.

    I want to 2nd Jean here. Walk from this deal.

    I can't stand smoke or pet odors and I've done a fair amount of remediation for both in several properties. With few exceptions it's not gotten rid of it to where I could live there. You'd have to be getting a great deal so you could do an every surface rehab and new duct work for the hvac. You can't just clean carpets, paint walls and change furnace filters. All the carpets must be removed. All window coverings must be removed. All ceiling, walls and trim have to be specially primed and painted. Kitchen cabinets have to primed and painted or removed and replaced. Vents and duct work with 15 years of tobacco tar will smell for years.

    Get it for a rehab price or don't buy it.

    0Reply
  • Daniel Rubenstein
    OP
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 0 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jean Bolger:
    If you (like me) are at the more sensitive end of the spectrum of "hate the smell of smoke" then just don't try to make this house work for you. It would involve a MAJOR MAJOR remediation and even then you may not be satisfied. It's certainly not something you should even consider asking the sellers to do for you. They'll say "The smell is gone!" You'll say "No, it's not!" .... and then what? Could be a nightmare.

    There are other threads on BP about smoke remediation that you could read if you do a search. Hopefully they would make it clear what a problem this can be.

    I want to 2nd Jean here. Walk from this deal.

    I can't stand smoke or pet odors and I've done a fair amount of remediation for both in several properties. With few exceptions it's not gotten rid of it to where I could live there. You'd have to be getting a great deal so you could do an every surface rehab and new duct work for the hvac. You can't just clean carpets, paint walls and change furnace filters. All the carpets must be removed. All window coverings must be removed. All ceiling, walls and trim have to be specially primed and painted. Kitchen cabinets have to primed and painted or removed and replaced. Vents and duct work with 15 years of tobacco tar will smell for years.

    Get it for a rehab price or don't buy it.

    THanks!! and Thanks Jean!! After reading everyones posts here, and especially yours, I am looking at other options that we had considered bad options because of layout of house, or size of backyard, or other things. Because you/re right..if there is the faintest smell of smoke, it will make me sick. We will probably take a different house, and if this house is still on the market when we move in, I will see what kind of rehab pricing I can get--especially now that I have spent so much time researching what needs to be done.

    Thanks all!! and Thanks BP for being there for me!!

    0Reply
  • Phillip Dwyer
    Real Estate Agent · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 550 votes
    12y

    If you buy this house make sure you're paying less than what the other houses are selling for, not the market average or above market. This house has a serious defect and should be treated as such.

    On a side note, what makes the area that you're looking at special? Are you sure there are no alternatives?

    0Reply
  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    @Daniel Rubenstein sounds like you have decided not to move forward but just to confirm that decision. You mentioned the house had been repainted recently. If the smoke was not cleaned off the walls prior to painting there is no way to get the smell out aside from ripping the walls down. You must clean the walls before painting. A remediation guy taught me this. He makes big bucks doing this for insurance companies.

    The paint is porous and the humidity draws out the smell through the new paint. Even a sealer requires cleaning before hand. If it's not done right you really have to know that you will be able to smell it.

    As for finding a house. Here's what I would do, pay a title company to prepare you a list of every home in the area you want to live in. Do a mass mailing saying you are a private buyer and want to live in that area and if they are thinking of selling to contact you directly. Be careful about your letter but be quick too. My guess is you should get calls from everyone thinking of selling in the next few months and will have the "pick of the crop".

    0Reply
  • Robert AdamsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Henderson, NV · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 373 votes
    12y

    You can get rid of the smoke smell. As others have mentioned new carpet and paint is a must. Ozones are also helpful but make sure you do not have the ozone on while you are in the house. It is known to cause health problems.

    I am more concerned with why you are willing to pay 15% above comp value for a house that needs all this rehab? If the house needed no rehab I would be questioning the 15% overcharge. What is your agent saying about paying 15% over? If they are saying that is what the market is demanding right now, they are not in tune with the market. That was happening a year or so ago but not any longer unless the property is immaculate, highly upgraded, and in a high demand area and even then I would be leery of 15% over comp value.

    Personally I would keep looking. I am pretty sure you will look back on this and be glad you didn't over pay for your home.

    [email protected]702-349-9175
    The Adams Team at Rothwell Gornt Companies4.970 Reviews
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    0Reply
  • Xing Zhu
    Durham, NC · Member since 2012 · 498 posts · 48 votes
    12y

    I would not buy this house.

    0Reply
  • Xing Zhu
    Durham, NC · Member since 2012 · 498 posts · 48 votes
    12y

    I would not buy this house.

    0Reply
  • Xing Zhu
    Durham, NC · Member since 2012 · 498 posts · 48 votes
    12y

    When you buy a home for yourselves, you have selectability; when you sell, you don't. When you have selectability, you want to make sure you like the home in almost all prospects. When you have any major concerns, just look for something else. Assuming that you buy it and later you cannot get rid of the smell with a reasonable cost or you think you overpaid for it, you will blame yourselves for the mistake badly because you foresaw the mistake.

    1Reply
  • Brian Gibbons
    Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Don't buy this stinker of a deal!

    This is "Do a Deal for the Sake of Doing a Deal" disease.

    0Reply
  • Daniel Rubenstein
    OP
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 51 posts · 0 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Bill S.:
    @Daniel Rubenstein sounds like you have decided not to move forward but just to confirm that decision. You mentioned the house had been repainted recently. If the smoke was not cleaned off the walls prior to painting there is no way to get the smell out aside from ripping the walls down. You must clean the walls before painting. A remediation guy taught me this. He makes big bucks doing this for insurance companies.

    The paint is porous and the humidity draws out the smell through the new paint. Even a sealer requires cleaning before hand. If it's not done right you really have to know that you will be able to smell it.

    As for finding a house. Here's what I would do, pay a title company to prepare you a list of every home in the area you want to live in. Do a mass mailing saying you are a private buyer and want to live in that area and if they are thinking of selling to contact you directly. Be careful about your letter but be quick too. My guess is you should get calls from everyone thinking of selling in the next few months and will have the "pick of the crop".

    WOW!!! Thank you soo much Bill!!! I really appreciate the idea of paying a title company and calling houseowners!! That sounds great!

    Where do I start? Do I call any title company? Do I email them?? What does it cost?

    Thanks!!

    0Reply
  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    @Daniel Rubenstein you would call a title company (google is your friend) that works in the area. They will charge you a small fee for the list then you have to do a direct mailing to the list and wait for the people to call you. If it's a really small area you can walk it and knock on doors telling them what you are wanting as well.

    0Reply
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