CONTRACTOR PUT A B.S. LIEN ON OUR PROPERTY, NEED ADVICE.

CONTRACTOR PUT A B.S. LIEN ON OUR PROPERTY, NEED ADVICE.

Rehabber · Yucaipa, CA · Member since 2013 · 52 posts · 2 votes

Ok, here's the story. We are rehabbing out of state. This has proven to be extremely difficult and stressful. We hired a contractor to do a job for $1300. He did the job, we paid him, but there was much more that needed to be done. Yes we should have gotten a lien release when he did the first job, but we didn't. So we came to a verbal agreement, backed up with emails, to finish all the other things we listed in emails for $2200 using the same terms as the contract which states he gets paid when the job is DONE. Well, he took WAY too long, and kept trying to add more and more stuff and demanded he be paid partially for his week's "work". Well, we got zero pictures, and I had a guy inspect the work and they did almost Nothing for 4 guys and a week. And what they did do looked like crap. So we were going to fire him, but he assured us he'd have it done by Tuesday (this was a Friday). We said, ok, we aren't paying you partial until it's all done, so get it done and we'll pay the 2200 on Wednesday. The agreed. The next day, he quit, demanded we pay him 2200 plus 200 in gas which we never agreed to at all. We told him he gets nothing, since he breached our agreement and quit. This son of a ***** files a lien for $3400, a THOUSAND more than we EVER discussed. We called the county clerk and they were utterly useless. They said we had to pay it or bond around it or hire a lawyer. No one seems to care that this is blatant extortion and fraudulent. This guy did this because we are 1500 miles away. I'm not about to pay some guy 3400 bucks who did about a days worth of work and did a terrible job to boot.

Does anyone know how we can have this removed and not hire a lawyer?

I cannot believe someone can just say you owe then money and tie up the house.

And no, we will not wait a year, we can't. And no, I don't want to bond around it. We do NOT owe this money.

Surely some of you have been here before. Valuable lesson learned here I know.

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Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y

Please post more info so people can make relevant suggestions.  What state is the property in? What type of lien did the contractor file?  

Here in CA, a mechanic's lien has to be perfected through a court case, and the contractor has to be licensed in order to file the court case.  Anyone can file the mechanic's lien though.  So the property location makes a big difference.

$3400 is pretty small and not worth any legal dollars IMO. You could file in small claims and do it DIY, but your with your travel cost, court fee and process serving, you'd probably not come out ahead.

This thing is going to cost you money one way or another, so get clear about your goal and your budget. If it were me, I'd likely settle with the contractor for a lien release. If you are ready to sell and the title company is willing to bond around that lien, I'd might go that route if the cost was low enough.  I suggest putting your righteous anger aside as this is business and that attitude will not serve you.  

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  • Sharpsburg, GA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 21 votes
    12y

    Wow lots of feedback here! I just wanted to 2nd all of @Karen Margrave comments and add that as a contractor in Atlanta, Georgia  you will rarely find a contractor ( especially  a sub-contractor ) even on a small project that can or is willing to wait until they are finished to get paid . I know it's sad, but my guess is that he blew the first 1300 and didn't have the funds to complete the rest without some sort of money to cover that weeks payroll. Unfortunately he took advantage of you and is now abusing the law to make some money. On behalf of a lot of good, honest hard working contractors, there are more good guys out there than bad.  Don't let this discourage you from future projects.  

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Monty Alston  You're right, there's a lot more good contractors than bad. Unfortunately, it's always the few that give the rest of us a bad rap! But, at the same time, property owners aren't blameless and need to do their due diligence, and protect themselves. Here in California all the information on contractors is online. That's great for people to check licenses, but allows unscrupulous people to grab all our info and impersonate contractors. Many times people think they're hiring a licensed contractor when they aren't. There's even online services that get licensed contractors (that don't actually use licenses) to rent their licenses, and the Contractors Board doesn't stop it. 

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    Most investors looking for someone to work for free is the reason they don't question contractors about their license. 

    Joe Gore

  • Sharpsburg, GA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 21 votes
    12y

    @Karen Margrave and @Joe Gore your comments could not  be more correct. I don't want to clutter this tread or get off topic,  but I think it is relevant to mention for the inexperienced investor and homeowners that might read this thread to know that it's not the "license " that gets you the quality, on time , in budget project. It's the integrity of the contractor. Word of mouth is still the way to approach hiring a contractor. Not your cousins friend who knows somebody,  but someone who has had a recent completed project with hands on knowledge of the success or failure of that project.  I am not discrediting the value or the legal importance of a  contractors license  in anyway, however depending in which State you live in may or may not even be required. 

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Monty Alston  As a contractor myself, I know the value of being licensed. I always suggest people use licensed contractors, etc. and verifty references etc. Many banks will not loan on rehabs or new construction unless there is a licensed contractor doing the work, for good reason. In the event something goes wrong, what will you do? You have no real recourse. With a licensed contractor there are various mediations available, and they are also required to back up their work for a specified period of time (depending on State). 

  • Sharpsburg, GA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 21 votes
    12y

    Much respect @Karen Margrave I agree with every thread I have seen that you've written including this one. You seem to be very knowledgable, keep putting the good word out there especially for us " Rookie BP folks" Thanks!

  • Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Hey, so I'm a business owner (remodeling, painting, bath remodels, etc) and also own a couple rental homes that I manage. I will both 1) tell you advice and 2) tell you a personal story where I was the contractor and actually the victim in the situation. 

    First, I was actually in a reverse situation. We were hired by a "GC", and we did a beautiful job on their home painting all of their walls, ceilings, trim and doing their cabinets. For the cabinets, we did the process correctly- take off doors and hardware; degloss and clean; sand; use high bonding alkyd primer; wait 3 days; then paint 2-3 full coats as needed. Cabinets were sprayed in a plastic chamber, quarantined and sealed on-site. There were no damages, job looked amazing. Our project manager, who is a master builder himself, took photos and videos of the completed job and the customer (The GC) signed the sign-off sheet stating they were happy.

    Anyway, they made excuses for like 10 days after completion and were stalling us on the payment. We even gave him 3 days notice to pay otherwise we would lien the property, via email, and still no payment.

    Me and my wife figured out they were actually SCHEMING WITH THE HOMEOWNER! The "homeowner" purchased it with a SHELL company, an LLC he freaking made a week before buying the house, with some really sketchy name (Iontaobhas LLC). AND HE DID THIS SAME THING BEFORE WITH A HOME PREVIOUSLY.

    By the way, The name of the company isn't a last or middle name of the guy... It's like random hits on a keyboard, almost like he WAS HOPING TO MAKE IT HARD TO SPELL, so that when your average mexican construction guy tries to file the lien for non-payment, they will spell it wrong and invalidate the lien.

    Well, long story short, we did everything proper. We mailed the official "Notice of intent to lien" (even though its not technically required) to both the homeowner and the GC. We sent it via certified mail, took pics and saved receipts. Then we notarized and filed the lien at our County Courthouse, then mailed that out via certified mail to both parties, (for the homeowner, we sent it to both his personal name and home, and ALSO his Iontaobhas LLC address and name).

    So I just wanna make it clear, that the person filing the lien is NOT always the bad guy. We have hard working, religious, family men on our team, who busted their a*ss for a full week (5 guys for like a full week) and did a beautiful job, and these sociopathic rich jerks are posing at "helping the poor/cancer" galas, etc, while they are getting rich by literally making up fake companies, getting free work, selling the house, keeping the profits and then declaring chapter 11 bankruptcy on the fake corporations. They pretend to go to "charity galas" as they are literally getting rich by NOT PAYING POOR WORKERS and the owner of the company (me) who, admittedly, makes a good living, but still- we earned the money and they are thieves. And yeah, this probably happens more than you think in DC/VA area.


    Oh also, after we sent the lien, then this a*ssclown has the nerve to be like "Oh, uh, actually there are some touch ups you still need to do. There was paint on the floor in one room." And I'm like buddy... I have photos. EVERYWHERE. And we have evidence that at the time we left, there was zero paint on your floors, and you even signed the release stating there were no damages and no clean up missed or needed. But I still promised him that I would clean up (I will, of course) AFTER he pays the final payment (If clean up is even needed- I noted in the email that I have seen zero proof of any supposed clean-up).


    If he doesn't pay, I'm filing a motion to foreclose on the house, and I don't even feel bad. These people are the worst. They literally didn't pay this other plumber either (unrelated to my company). They gave him a check and THE CHECK BOUNCED, so he left. They paid me a down payment which cleared... but they bailed on the final 75% or so of the check. 


    ========

    As for what you should do, in your situation, to avoid these issues:


    1) Obviously, don't be a scammer like these guys. Never hire guys thinking of sneaky ways to avoid paying them, such as making fake LLC's that you declare bankrupt later, or dodging their phone calls. That is not right, moral, fair, and it's also "unjust enrichment" in a majority of states.

    2) Only hire licensed contractors like myself, PERIOD, don't hire unlicensed people or the cheapest bid, because then you will sometimes get scammed or assaulted or stolen from. Be responsible, and vet who you hire.

    3) To be specific- check their license, insurance, workers comp if required in your state (or at least make sure their subs have their own liability insurance if they use subs), and also online reviews and references. 

    4) DO NOT file a BBB claim on this guy unless it is 100% accurate- the one black girl on here gave bad advice by saying to complain to the BBB (I forget her name sorry lol)- IF YOU COMPLAIN TO THE BBB, IT CAN NEVER BE UNDONE. That makes a contractor a lot less likely to "negotiate", once you have scrambled an egg that can no longer be unscrambled. If you review them on Yelp or Houzz, those can be deleted, same with Angie's I'm pretty sure. But if you do a complaint on BBB, it sticks for 2 years whether it's true or not. The only way they can remove it is by suing you for defamation if the complaint was based on lies.

    5) Make sure you sign a legal contract. Obviously. It should specify time frame if needed, both parties complete contact info, license number of contractor, address of property, complete scope of work, payment schedule, payment terms, other terms, days and hours to be worked, and anything else legally required to be on the contract in your state- or anything else that is common sense that I'm forgetting to put here. 

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