Is this seller playing games with me?

Is this seller playing games with me?

Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes

I recently engaged in a negotiation to buy a portfolio of rental apartments from a seller whom just inherited these properties from her late father. The properties were off market. I contacted her to discuss if she might be interested to sell the whole portfolio and she immediately said she really wants to get rid off it because it is too much for her (a white woman with little kids) to deal with low income tenants in the "hood". I managed to get an appointment with her to discuss the price and terms. After a couple of weeks and some back and forth she finally told me the price she was wiling to sell. I agree to pay the price she asked because I believe it was a fair price. This is a 50+ units apartments deal for a seven figure cash deal. During all the negotiation I was very proactive calling her trying get the deal done. She never called me once (even when she always promised to call me a certain time). I felt like I was chasing her all the time. She just did not acted like a person interested to sell. I asked her many times if she is "really interested to sell" and she assured me she was but she is always so busy she does not have time to reply emails or phone calls (how busy can a person be that chooses to ignore a buyer willing to buy cash for seven figure deal and pay her full asking price).

Anyway, last Friday we agreed on the phone on the price. It was the price she wanted and she confirmed verbally that we have a deal. Then I proceeded to send her the sales contract on Friday giving her the weekend for her to go thru the terms. I called her 6 times on Monday and she finally answered my phone late afternoon confirming she received my contract and she will send to her attorney to review and get back to me tomorrow. Once again "tomorrow went by" and she did not called me back as promised and did not pick up her phone during the whole day. I finally got someone to pickup the phone at 7:30pm today. It was her husband and he told me she is at bed now and asked me to call her tomorrow during from 9:00 to 3:00pm (yeah but you guys never pickup the phone during that time). 

I'm an investor and I've done many transactions before and this is the first time that I'm dealing with a seller that does not respond professionally and does not pick up the phone or call you back. I've finally sent her an email today asking her to contact us if she still wants to close the deal or not otherwise we will take our money to pursue other deals. The only reason I have not quit this deal is because it is a good deal that fits our portfolio. I'd love to hear what do you guys think about this seller? What will you do in this situation?

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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
12y

You called 6 times in one day!  That would piss me off and I consider that rude. 

You are acting like a motivated buyer. That is not a very good negotiating tactic. It wouldn't surprise me that this deal blows up becuase you are pushing too hard. 

I doubt the seller is playing games with you, she probably has too much on her plate to handle. Slow down and build repore with the seller. Make sure that when she is ready you are the one she wants to deal with.

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  • Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Kirk R.:

    @Will Wu 

    You agreed to her price.  Maybe should have negotiatef her down.  otherwise she might think she didn't ask for enough money.  

    My dad sold a car he had taken really good care of.  The guy said here's the money.  My dad i think was little disappointed he didn't. Get to negotiate and telk the giy about the car

     Yes I could do that. But considering she has a lot going on and what she asked is a fair market appraisal price I did not see the need to ask for discount. I'm all about establishing win-win deals. I don't like to play games I'm always honest and upfront sometimes I might get screwed by being too honest but most of the times I found that is the best way to do business. 

  • Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Anna Shaver:

    @Will Wu   It doesn't happen often but once in a while I run across people who are busy, have a lot on their mind, and actual would appreciate if I run by for them to sign and make it easy for them to cross off one more thing they are avoiding off their list.  She is grieving and has a full plate.  You could ask her would you like me to come by and explain the contract to you and get it going for her.  If you are coming from a non aggressive place she might be ok with it.  You could let her know if she isn't comfortable with it, you are fine, you just wanted to offer just in case.

    I second the offer to give her some resources to make this transition easier if she isn't ready to sell and let her know that if that is where she is, just to let you know, you are fine either way.

     I can barely reach her on the phone so I don't have the chance to even sit with her discuss anything. I just met her once, talked to her maybe 4 times on the phone. A couple of emails. I'm not crazy harassing her or being aggressive. Last contact I had was this morning when she returned my email saying her attorneys are still reviewing the contract and she will get back to me today (it's been 3 days that she is saying the same thing). I thanked her for the reply and told her to contact me if she needed any assistance. Without further surprise she did not got back to me again. Anyway I'm getting used to it I have to accept that some people do not really think they have to get back to you when they say they will. I already moved on to negotiate another deal. Time is money and I will not worry about her anymore. 

  • Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Brandon L.:

    Just my humble 2 cents. I can understand getting excited when this amount of money is involved, but if I recognized that a seller was not a professional seller, I would most certainly get a signed contract before going to the money guys and having them move that amount of cash around.  

     That's a bit tricky. What happen when you sign the contract and you can't secure the money? I'll prefer to have the money then negotiate the deal. The worse that can happen is that the deal is down and the moneys back to the investors.

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Rent the movie 'Swingers' and you'll see a great example of bad phone practices.

  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    12y

    @Will Wu Yes, obviously the half a dozen calls in one day is the huge eye-catcher of your post. My question though is did you call her 6 times leaving messages all or any of those calls or did you just not get an answer after 6 attempts? If you made 6 attempts to contact her in a day without leaving a message its a bit much but under the circumstances understandable, imo. However if you left messages (not to exceed 2 in a day) then that should've been the end of the attempts for the day. That feel of telemarketer attacking starts to fill the air. You don't want to risk being put on the DONOTCALL list. I do wish you well on this deal. Please keep us posted in any event.

    Kudos,

    Mary

  • Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
    12y

    @Rick H. - Kudos for being so honest about how your deal was going.  & you must be doing things pretty dang good.  I hope you get your deal.  & if you don't sure something else good will come your way.

  • Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
    12y

     Thank you for your encouragement. A year ago I did not have any properties on my portfolio. After deciding to jump into being a landlord and after lot of hard work now I have a portfolio of 50 units apartments generating 6 digits cash flow per year. My secret weapon is to always take action immediately and be as effectively as possible. While others are still hesitant on a deal I already closed the deal. This current deal with this lady is a 50/50% in my opinion but I have already moved on to discuss others deals in case this one does not work. Sometimes loosing is winning. 

  • Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Way to go @Will Wu ! Move onward and prosper :)

  • Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
    11y

    8 days after my post. I'd like to share my experience with this seller. Many have criticized me for pushing her too hard. I followed the suggestions and stopped calling her (maybe 1 time every 2-3 days). But I did sent her an email asking if all was OK with the purchase agreement and if she needed any assistance from me. Here was her reply on Oct. 15: 

    "I feel that this offer is good for all. My feeling is YES, but again, I am awaiting authorization from both attorneys. I will be speaking with mine again around 9:30 today, and he will be receiving the acceptance from the other attorney before giving me the okay to sign the contract. I am hoping that it will be today so that we can move forward quickly. I am sorry that things aren’t as immediate as we BOTH would like, so please bear with me. Thanks."

    It looked pretty positive and I understood she has more than one attorney to review a pretty basic standard sales contract. I then gave her a few days more and followed with another email asking her if all was OK and if she is still interested to close the deal and if she needed any assistance from me. 

    Here was her reply on Oct. 19. 

    "......And yes, your offer is ready to go...I just need that final clearance. Thanks again for all your patience." 

    So at this point 2 weeks has passed since I sent her my sales contract. I replied her by asking if it will be helpful so set up a meeting to meet her with the attorneys to clarify any issues they might have since I might not be able to secure the funds for much longer if I could not get any confirmation that this deal will go. 

    No more replies whatsoever. From Oct 15 till Oct 24 I called her maybe 2 or 3 times and sent her around 4 emails. Left message and she never replied any. It is my conclusion that this seller is playing games with me and I'm used as a back up offer for her to negotiate with others. I seldom see sellers that constantly confirm the deal is a go but they don't seem to want to go or don't seem to send any hints that they might want to negotiate better price or terms. Lesson learned. A seller may tell you we are good to go but will never mean it. When they start acting out of normal that should be a red flag. All of other excuses like being overwhelmed, etc. Truly are just BS for me. If you want to close a deal you will find to close it. Period. 

  • Investor · Winnipeg, Manitoba · Member since 2013 · 303 posts · 321 votes
    11y

    @Will Wu 

    NEXT

    Let it go. Lesson learned. 

    Thanks for sharing

  • Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
    11y

    Hi Will,

    Hope you are enjoying the nice weather down in FL.  I'm vacationing to FL Beginning of Nov.

    She keeps committing and not following through, which is embarrassing for most people.  It might not be her 100% decision.

    She could be playing games.  How many siblings did she have?  I would guess there a multiple attornies because another sister or brother.  Maybe contact the other sister or brother?  Or the executor of the estate or going through probate.  Others are much more skilled in this area than I am.  Just a thought.  Sounds like you will have to be patient.  Again I think you are playing in a space most people don't play so there might not be that much competition.  Have you researched the property ownership?   

  • Rental Property Investor · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 50 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Kirk R.:

    Hi Will,

    Hope you are enjoying the nice weather down in FL.  I'm vacationing to FL Beginning of Nov.

    She keeps committing and not following through, which is embarrassing for most people.  It might not be her 100% decision.

    She could be playing games.  How many siblings did she have?  I would guess there a multiple attornies because another sister or brother.  Maybe contact the other sister or brother?  Or the executor of the estate or going through probate.  Others are much more skilled in this area than I am.  Just a thought.  Sounds like you will have to be patient.  Again I think you are playing in a space most people don't play so there might not be that much competition.  Have you researched the property ownership?   

    She does not have siblings and she is the only President of the LLC's that owns the properties. The properties sole owner is her company. There must be some kind of legal problems that is holding her. Her lack of communication is what is killing this deal. Whatever the problem if she is interested to do the deal she should be more upfront in giving details of what is happening.

  • Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Will Wu - I may have admonished you prior for hitting her hard, however you are now "in play" on this deal until either: 

    1) the property changes hands with another buyer, 

    2) seller informs you that your offer is not accepted 

    3) you decide to walk.

    This being said, you're just frustrated because this is not progressing along your choice of a timeline. Don't give up! 

    Surprising to me, I find that the longer I'm in this business, the less patient I can become sometimes. However, I do run things by friends and they remind me that the world does not revolve around my schedule. I don't like hearing that, of course.

    When I exhibit patient behavior, I am rewarded! This doesn't mean that I feel patient, but that I act patient. 

    Who know's what's going on with this seller or in her mind. Had you approached this deal as an insider, you'd be privileged to more facts. As it is now, you'd do well to get busy with other things. I like to spend time working on my business and plant more seeds for future deals (both front end and back end opportunities). What do you like to do?

  • Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
    11y

    wait til she starts hounding you.  You have money.  When she does negotiate hard for lower price better terms?

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Broomfield, CO · Member since 2013 · 390 posts · 125 votes
    11y

    @Will Wu I have to agree with others - back off a little.  I can certainly see why you are motivated to get the deal done, but she either doesn't have time, or may be put off by the constant contact.  I deal with people promising me timelines all the time, and those that follow through are in the VAST minority.

  • Peoria, IL · Member since 2013 · 967 posts · 383 votes
    11y


    Scene from Swingers - Who doesn't have 4 minutes for some entertainment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PUrNwvvBk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0PUrNwvvBk
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