Finding Easements at the court house FLORIDA
Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes
Finding Easements at the court house FLORIDA
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Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11yI doubt that it is that the Clerk ignored the easement, it's just human error when they get overlooked. These things rarely happen all at once so you have to find all the pieces of the puzzle. First a tract of land was parceled out, then later subdivided, then a public right of way granted for a new road, then a storm drain easement, then.....and now someone owns this piece of dirt.
I'm not sure of your familiarity with easements so forgive me if the following is already what you know.
The reason they pay no taxes on an easement is because the property owner does still legally own the property; every square inch of it. The grantee (receiving the easement) is just given certain rights to the property. As you mentioned this can decrease the value of the property, but is all open to negotiation prior to the easement recording. The original grantor may have received money or some other value by granting the easement.
The reason easements are granted instead of a lease of some sort or actually selling them the property for some reason can vary. Usually it is because the grantee doesn't actually need the land, just certain rights associated with it; like access or the ability to maintain a utility running through it. Sometimes it could be because the property couldn't legally be split that way, so an easement conveys rights without needing to convey actual property. Like you mentioned the "perpetuity" nature of easements is just for this very reason. If they didn't have it you as the new owner could in some way try to "hold their feet to the fire" and make a new deal, when they already had an agreement in the past.
Easements can be vacated, which is "undoing" the easement. Either because the original grantee is no longer utilizing it/not in existence, or because it in some way prevents the property owner from developing or building. It can be mutual or unilateral depending on the situation.
If as you say it isn't on the actual title report then that is the purpose of title insurance. They are insuring that piece of property is as described and listing items of importance..including easements. If the easement decreased the value of the property and was missed, then you could make a claim for that amount against the title insurance and receive compensation for it. As I mentioned an O&E isn't the same thing, and I'm assuming you don't have a title policy because it was a tax deed property. That is the risk that you take at auctions as opposed to receiving a grant deed.
I'm sure it is frustrating, and I'm not trying to make light of it, just trying to help you understand the process/purpose and maybe you can figure out how to work with this or get it "fixed" in some way to your benefit.
17 Replies
- Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes11y
Originally posted by @Steve White:
Hi I did some research along with reading a Ownership and encumbrance report and found no mention of a existing easement on the lot I purchased at the tax deed county auction.
Ive been told the easement is recorded in the official record books and have a book and page to research.
The problem I have is there is no mention of it in the property legal description or any past deeds. Right now I can't think of a place to have looked to find this easement other then reading every official record since the county started recording.
Is it not standard practice to include mention in the legal description? The title report has no mention and I would think this might be a big encomberance.
You need to find the plat which will probably cost a fee for you to get a copy. I'm not sure if FL uses metes & bounds or rectangular survey. Knowing which can help narrow your research. You can always get a surveyor to come visit the property but that's not free either.
Kudos,
Mary
- Hingham, MA · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 29 votes11y
sometime an engineering department at town hall will have older plans and recordings...or trace the deeds all the way back your self, may be able to do that online, I could here, just my opinion !
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
did you pull the book and page mentioned... that should describe the easement if it exists.
other wise just order a title report they are cheap.. probably better than wasting hours trying to find this on your own.
- Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Steve White:
Hi I did some research along with reading a Ownership and encumbrance report and found no mention of a existing easement on the lot I purchased at the tax deed county auction.
Ive been told the easement is recorded in the official record books and have a book and page to research.
The problem I have is there is no mention of it in the property legal description or any past deeds. Right now I can't think of a place to have looked to find this easement other then reading every official record since the county started recording.
Is it not standard practice to include mention in the legal description? The title report has no mention and I would think this might be a big encomberance.
This doesn't really surprise me. First the O&E will likely not show easements. It is more for liens, judgements and actual titled owners. The actual title report will likely show the actual easements, or mention them as being "non-plottable" which can often be the case with some easements like an electric company that has poles running across the property where the description is "3' on either side of the pole".
If it still doesn't show up on title, that is not unheard of either. I work in Civil Engineering and we fairly frequently identify easements or other items that either aren't shown or have been incorrectly shown. It's a fairly simple fix as we notify the title company and give them the correct document to reference and they update the report.
This may be CA specific...in preparing maps and improvement plans for subdivision or construction we research existing improvement plans. Sometimes the easement or right of way dedication was done on the plan instead of a separate map. These tend to be missed more often by title so until we find it they haven't listed it. In preparing the new maps we add them to the drawing referencing the original plan and then "our" map is what has identified the actual location.
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Originally posted by @Mary B.:
Originally posted by @Steve White:
Hi I did some research along with reading a Ownership and encumbrance report and found no mention of a existing easement on the lot I purchased at the tax deed county auction.
Ive been told the easement is recorded in the official record books and have a book and page to research.
The problem I have is there is no mention of it in the property legal description or any past deeds. Right now I can't think of a place to have looked to find this easement other then reading every official record since the county started recording.
Is it not standard practice to include mention in the legal description? The title report has no mention and I would think this might be a big encomberance.
You need to find the plat which will probably cost a fee for you to get a copy. I'm not sure if FL uses metes & bounds or rectangular survey. Knowing which can help narrow your research. You can always get a surveyor to come visit the property but that's not free either.
Kudos,
Mary
Mary thanks the Plats were available online however no mention of any easements
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Originally posted by @Bill Fennelly:
sometime an engineering department at town hall will have older plans and recordings...or trace the deeds all the way back your self, may be able to do that online, I could here, just my opinion !
Thanks Bill I have seen the Deeds going back to the easement granting and there is no mention on the deeds or legal description
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
did you pull the book and page mentioned... that should describe the easement if it exists.
other wise just order a title report they are cheap.. probably better than wasting hours trying to find this on your own.
Thanks Jay so far I have not verified it was recorded but it does look real I was sent a copy along with book and page number but this is older than online information and its a 170 mile round trip. I will check it one day when I get up there early.
I did find a local Attorney web site who does it all Title Insurance, Title Reports, O&E reports and all but in the description of each service seen nothing mentioned about finding easements.
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Originally posted by @Matt Devincenzo:
Originally posted by @Steve White:
Hi I did some research along with reading a Ownership and encumbrance report and found no mention of a existing easement on the lot I purchased at the tax deed county auction.
Ive been told the easement is recorded in the official record books and have a book and page to research.
The problem I have is there is no mention of it in the property legal description or any past deeds. Right now I can't think of a place to have looked to find this easement other then reading every official record since the county started recording.
Is it not standard practice to include mention in the legal description? The title report has no mention and I would think this might be a big encomberance.
This doesn't really surprise me. First the O&E will likely not show easements. It is more for liens, judgements and actual titled owners. The actual title report will likely show the actual easements, or mention them as being "non-plottable" which can often be the case with some easements like an electric company that has poles running across the property where the description is "3' on either side of the pole".
If it still doesn't show up on title, that is not unheard of either. I work in Civil Engineering and we fairly frequently identify easements or other items that either aren't shown or have been incorrectly shown. It's a fairly simple fix as we notify the title company and give them the correct document to reference and they update the report.
This may be CA specific...in preparing maps and improvement plans for subdivision or construction we research existing improvement plans. Sometimes the easement or right of way dedication was done on the plan instead of a separate map. These tend to be missed more often by title so until we find it they haven't listed it. In preparing the new maps we add them to the drawing referencing the original plan and then "our" map is what has identified the actual location.
Thank you Matt it might be that easements can be ignored by the County Clerks I don't know.
Some easements could make the property about worthless for certain uses, this one would be annoyance to a buyer, certainly making it harder to sell.
Its a water well owned by a company in the area that supply's water to some of the neighbors. It is center front of the lot which is 120 foot wide and they have a 20 x 30 foot print.
I'm not wishing them to go away but I would think they should pay taxes on that lot since they earn income from it. Also my existing water well may have gone dry because of this commercial well some 50 foot away. The neighbor told me when he moved in he had to have his well drilled deeper. I have not been offered water either.
When I think of it Easements can be the biggest rip off of property owners. Its one thing for a owner to allow some one to use his/her land but to grant that into perpetuity seems to me as against the laws of nature. Whats worse is not being able to find it.
Think of the benefit to the person/corporation granted easement rights, they get something for ever and pay no tax's on it
If the easement is big enough like under high power lines the owner pays property tax for something they can't enjoy, eventually they let it go for tax's and the County winds up with land they get no tax benefit from.
Sorry for the rant on easements.
Thanks to all
- Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes11y
I doubt that it is that the Clerk ignored the easement, it's just human error when they get overlooked. These things rarely happen all at once so you have to find all the pieces of the puzzle. First a tract of land was parceled out, then later subdivided, then a public right of way granted for a new road, then a storm drain easement, then.....and now someone owns this piece of dirt.
I'm not sure of your familiarity with easements so forgive me if the following is already what you know.
The reason they pay no taxes on an easement is because the property owner does still legally own the property; every square inch of it. The grantee (receiving the easement) is just given certain rights to the property. As you mentioned this can decrease the value of the property, but is all open to negotiation prior to the easement recording. The original grantor may have received money or some other value by granting the easement.
The reason easements are granted instead of a lease of some sort or actually selling them the property for some reason can vary. Usually it is because the grantee doesn't actually need the land, just certain rights associated with it; like access or the ability to maintain a utility running through it. Sometimes it could be because the property couldn't legally be split that way, so an easement conveys rights without needing to convey actual property. Like you mentioned the "perpetuity" nature of easements is just for this very reason. If they didn't have it you as the new owner could in some way try to "hold their feet to the fire" and make a new deal, when they already had an agreement in the past.
Easements can be vacated, which is "undoing" the easement. Either because the original grantee is no longer utilizing it/not in existence, or because it in some way prevents the property owner from developing or building. It can be mutual or unilateral depending on the situation.
If as you say it isn't on the actual title report then that is the purpose of title insurance. They are insuring that piece of property is as described and listing items of importance..including easements. If the easement decreased the value of the property and was missed, then you could make a claim for that amount against the title insurance and receive compensation for it. As I mentioned an O&E isn't the same thing, and I'm assuming you don't have a title policy because it was a tax deed property. That is the risk that you take at auctions as opposed to receiving a grant deed.
I'm sure it is frustrating, and I'm not trying to make light of it, just trying to help you understand the process/purpose and maybe you can figure out how to work with this or get it "fixed" in some way to your benefit.
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Matt I try to do some of my own title work although I'm just a hack and I don't want to travel to Court Houses so I do what I can on line. Here as far as I can see a O&E report pretty much gives you the story of whats going on during the current time period. While the Full title report here goes back 30 years. Judgements, Child support problems, court orders those kind of things, those are pretty fuzzy & iffy to me, I try to avoid those kind of problems. But I was sure I would be able to dig up a problem such as this.
If the County has no obligation to put a flag somewhere a Title search might find it, then I see that buying real estate without title insurance is a crap shoot even doing due diligence.. For instance after doing a quiet title I could apply for Title Insurance and of course they would want to do a Title search and I could say sure go ahead. And they would never find the problem either.
I need to find out if the County has some responsibility for the omission. If not then I have to omit to myself I can't do this without rolling the dice and taking my chances, and you really want to be more certain than that.
I did learn something; if it would work for your pourpose purchase a easement instead of buying the land. Way cheaper
- Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes11y
Easements are not identified in deeds, just a reference any existing recording easements. If it wasn't part of the original plat, which in this case it wasn't, it wouldn't show on the plat. Easements can be found searching the names of previous owners, or by doing public record searches for that legal description, which are available online here, if you know how to use them. I recently had to grant a water utilities easement when doing a lot split. You can only find it by searching my name, or the legal description. The county only has a responsibility to record, they're not responsible for putting up a sign pointing to it. It's part of the fee you pay when you have a survey done, they know how to find these. It's just part of the risk of buying without a survey.
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:
Easements are not identified in deeds, just a reference any existing recording easements. If it wasn't part of the original plat, which in this case it wasn't, it wouldn't show on the plat. Easements can be found searching the names of previous owners, or by doing public record searches for that legal description, which are available online here, if you know how to use them. I recently had to grant a water utilities easement when doing a lot split. You can only find it by searching my name, or the legal description. The county only has a responsibility to record, they're not responsible for putting up a sign pointing to it. It's part of the fee you pay when you have a survey done, they know how to find these. It's just part of the risk of buying without a survey.
Hi Wayne, online records go back to 1980, 34 years which is pretty good but no easement mention comes out with these searches, by name or by legal description. I spoke with someone at the property assessors office they could not find anything on their computer. I seen the well and searched local water companies and emailed them. They had a attorney send me the copy which was granted back in the mid seventy's. Way further back than anyone would normally search. And presumably why would you unless you knew something was to be found?
I see the costs of having a O&E done is about $50 and for $150 they say a staff attorney will do a complete title search. The price tells me they are doing online search's just like I am. They won't find it either. Maybe you have a point with a survey they may have better info available to them. But when buying on auction you can't put much money into something somebody else may want more then you do and outbid you.
- Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes11y
Yep, agreed. I've had a couple of surprises, but nothing serious.
- Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes11y
I re-read the original post and I'm not sure that @Steve White has described the issue.
Why do you suspect there is an easement?
Easement on your subject property for the benefit of another or one that you need?
If you're looking for an easement the benefits you, as a driveway across someone else's property would be, you need to be looking on the servient easement property records (ie, adjacent, neighboring property).
Pam I on to something or off track here?
- Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes11y
@Rick H. You can order a copy of the recorded easement from the County Clerk of Court through the mail. A clerk in the records department might actually look at it, and describe it you over the phone.
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
Originally posted by @Rick H.:
I re-read the original post and I'm not sure that @Steve White has described the issue.
Why do you suspect there is an easement?
Easement on your subject property for the benefit of another or one that you need?
If you're looking for an easement the benefits you, as a driveway across someone else's property would be, you need to be looking on the servient easement property records (ie, adjacent, neighboring property).
Pam I on to something or off track here?
Rick I spotted it. the well on a drive by. Thought the well may have been the well mentioned in the Appraisers report. This lot once occupied, has a well and septic.
The reason I bought it was that it had a well & septic already there and since it was once occupied the next home owner/ builder would save $4800 in currant impact fees. I figure this is about $10,000 worth of "improvements" and a 4 foot chain link fence.
- Clearwater, FL · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes11y
I was sent a copy of the easement agreement; it's written in typical gibberish it includes a book and page number however I have not been to the Court House to verify its actually filed, but it looks real enough.
I once brought a contract to a attorney trying to verify the contract said what I thought it said. The attorney read it carefully and told me it might and it might not. You would have to bring it to court.
When I look at this old easement agreement whatever people thought they might be agreeing to may have been know fully only to them.
It grants the right for this person to use this 20 x30 foot area to drill a water well and to use a portion of it for the transmission of water derived from the well and for the right of ingress and egress for maintenance.
Does it allow for this plot to be fenced off as it is separately from the rest of the lot?
Is it OK that the equipment and pump shed is unsightly?
What happens if it drys up the lots own well making it useless?
I suppose only a expert attorney could nail it down.
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