Seller's Attorney Nearly Caused Me to Walk

Seller's Attorney Nearly Caused Me to Walk

Investor · Reading, PA · Member since 2014 · 196 posts · 118 votes

I've been dealing with a seller for almost two months now.  She is motivated to the point where she will sell it for the judgement amount, which is good, because I can not offer more than that.  The complicated part of this deal is an insurance claim that she will assign to me to fix plumbing, furnace, and hot water heater due to a pipe that burst.  Assigning those proceeds is the only way to make the deal work.  The property is up for sheriff sale.  I will state that my relationship with the seller has been fantastic

Today the seller asks me to call her lawyer. We exchange pleasantries, and she immediately starts unloading on me about how ridiculous my offer is, that I should pay fair market value, and then I interrupted her and asked what she thought FMV. She quoted the appraisal from 2012. "Perfect" I said. "You get the house in the same condition as when it was appraised, and I will pay that. Did the house have kitchen then? Bathroom? Half bath? Did the roof leak? Was the plaster coming off in chunks? Ok, so get it back to that condition, and I will pay it."

She responds with "Then we will keep the proceeds and you can buy it at the sheriff sale for the judgement amount."  

"I wouldn't touch that property at a sheriff sale knowing what work is needed, and any investor who pays that will lose his/her a--.  

The next 15 minutes is her basically saying nothing but "Well, you got to come up higher."  After about the 12th time I heard it, I will admit that she broke me.  I caved.  I upped my offer.

I finally relented and agreed to up my offer.  I said, "Ok.  I will come up from my original offer.  I am going to find out how much you will charge your client to make this phone call, and I will up my offer by EXACTLY that amount, because I can think many more productive ways for your client to spend her money."

I felt like walking away, but got over it.  My standing offer is:  my original offer+1 billable hour.  I'm waiting to hear back.

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Investor · Irvine, CA · Member since 2015 · 373 posts · 205 votes
11y

As an investor I will not negotiate a transaction, price and terms, with a principals attorney. I just refuse. If the seller/buyer can't negotiate on their own behalf and they need an intermediary I'll recommend they hire a real estate agent. That usually gets them back to the negotiating table.

I've had attorneys heckle me with messages that so and so instructed me to call them and my favorite recent comments was "you are prohibited from contacting my client to discuss terms of sale". Mrs Dickwad attorney had drafted an amendment to a previously agreed to Purchase and Sale Agreement. Mrs Dickwad didn't like the terms and felt they should be changed.

Its because of this and many similar incidents with principals attorney's that I will not negotiate or renegotiate a transactions price and or terms with an attorney. 

The seller/buyer can have their attorney negotiate contracts, no problem there, but they need to remain on point and not stray into changing price and or terms. 

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  • Miami, FL · Member since 2011 · 200 posts · 42 votes
    11y

    So the seller would rather let the house go to auction and have a foreclosure on their credit than sell it to you?

    Last week, a sellers attorney tried to have me sign documents that would have barred us from suing for specific performance if seller got cold feet and backed out. This was on a MILLION dollar property that we costed us a pretty penny to do our due dilligence on. That wasn't going to fly with us. Being that they had no other offers on the table, they went ahead and signed the contract without the proposed addendum. 

    Two weeks ago, I put another house under contract. Seller's attorney wouldn't allow us to take photos for our contractor during our initial walk through because we were buying it "as is", and photos would allow us to walk if condition of the property changed prior to closing. I chuckled, because there's no way I'm closing on this thing if the condition changes substantially between now and the settlement date without a repair credit to offset it. 

    Working with a Seller's attorney is always a hit or miss situation. Sometimes things are smooth, but I some of them create a bunch of hooplah in order to pretend to earn their keep.

  • Investor · Daphne, AL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 242 votes
    11y
    On occasion, the lawyers don't "get it" because they are fiduciaries for their clients and they don't understand the market. Good luck.
  • Investor · Reading, PA · Member since 2014 · 196 posts · 118 votes
    11y

    @Elio L.

    The seller and I have built a great relationship.  I can always tell when her emails are a line regurgitated from her lawyer.  I always preface my response with this disclaimer:  "(Name), this is directed to your lawyer, NOT you."  I then proceed to pick apart every aspect of what was suggested.

    At the end of every response I always reassure her that it is her attorneys job to get as much money for the client, and to protect him/her.  I would be worried if she wasn't pushing to get maximum value.

    However, everyone has their limits and I came close to reaching mine.  At the end of the day, I know darn well I am their only option, they do too.  I wrote a fair offer higher than what was necessary so that the seller could come out with some extra money in the deal.  My numbers still worked and I am trying to help make up for $3,000-4,000 the seller lost when all her tools and supplies were stolen as she tried to renovate.  My other posts have the whole story in more detail.

    I guess I was viewed as a pushover.  

  • Investor · Irvine, CA · Member since 2015 · 373 posts · 205 votes
    11y

    As an investor I will not negotiate a transaction, price and terms, with a principals attorney. I just refuse. If the seller/buyer can't negotiate on their own behalf and they need an intermediary I'll recommend they hire a real estate agent. That usually gets them back to the negotiating table.

    I've had attorneys heckle me with messages that so and so instructed me to call them and my favorite recent comments was "you are prohibited from contacting my client to discuss terms of sale". Mrs Dickwad attorney had drafted an amendment to a previously agreed to Purchase and Sale Agreement. Mrs Dickwad didn't like the terms and felt they should be changed.

    Its because of this and many similar incidents with principals attorney's that I will not negotiate or renegotiate a transactions price and or terms with an attorney. 

    The seller/buyer can have their attorney negotiate contracts, no problem there, but they need to remain on point and not stray into changing price and or terms. 

  • Investor · Daphne, AL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 242 votes
    11y

    On occasion, you just have to walk away and look for the next deal. Good luck. 

  • Investor · Reading, PA · Member since 2014 · 196 posts · 118 votes
    11y

    Thanks Al.  I am 99.9% sure the attorney was blowing smoke.  I can't imagine she would seriously recommend it going to auction and her client taking the credit hit.  If that's their plan, best of luck to them.  I've searched for close to a year for my first deal, one that fit my parameters and had enough exit strategies that I shouldn't get myself in too much trouble if things went really bad.  This deal hits everything.  However, all of her huffing and puffing has not changed the numbers on my spreadsheet, yet.  They still say the exact same thing as when I analyzed it.   If they ever magically do change, I will adjust accordingly.  If they follow through with the threat, I will go back to searching for "my" deal.  

    @Christopher Telles  Thank you for the great tip!  This line is great:  "Mrs Dickwad didn't like the terms and felt they should be changed.". 

  • Investor · Reading, PA · Member since 2014 · 196 posts · 118 votes
    11y

    Update:  

    I have walked from this deal.  I actually decided to come up $2,000 and was told by the attorney that the seller was considering it, while exploring "other avenues".   At that point I informed the attorney that it was clear that she had no intention of selling to me at the agreed upon price, and used my negotiations simply to obtain a continuance, in order to "buy more time" before the sheriff sale.  I have no desire to work with someone so misleading.

    Off to pursue other leads...

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