REO: Are Banks allowed to Fix & Flip?

REO: Are Banks allowed to Fix & Flip?

Real Estate Agent · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 66 votes

My question is pretty basic...

Are banks allowed to fix and flip?

I am trying to figure out how to get my foot in the door. My market (NYC) is pretty competitive and I don't really have too much that I am able to offer to any successful F&F's. So I thought maybe I could approach a small bank with the idea that I would show them the numbers, comps, arrange to bring in the contractors and run the fix and flip and kind of partner with the bank. Probably there is a glaring problem with this approach but I can't see what it would be. Either we would keep the property in the banks name or we could try to arrange a HM loan where the bank lends me the cash for the property. 

I think where this question kind of leads to is, why don't the banks themselves engage in the F&F industry. If a company becomes proficient enough, instead of the F&F's making the margins available, the banks would be able to keep the profits for themselves.

I do understand that banks are not in the REI business, and that would be a primary reason why the bank would not be interested in this approach. That being said, I don't understand why banks don't have a business relationship with contractors or F&F's that would allow them to profit more than what they are already making. The margins are so large here in NYC that there should be a way to profitably split the $. I am hoping you guys can enlighten me.

I have way to many problems of my own with this idea but I figured I would put this out there for you guys to consider. 

Thanks for your time.

(If you made it this far, lol.)

Sam Harris.

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Andrew SyriosPro Member
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Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
10y

Banks can fix and flip if they wanted, but that's not the business they're in. The big problem is banks want this excess inventory off their books as quickly as possible. Due to fractional reserve banking, banks only have to hold 10% (I think that's what it is now but it may have changed) and can lend out the rest. An REO counts as holdings. Meaning that if they have a $100,000 house sitting on the books, they can't lend out any of it. Even if they sold if for only $80,000, they could then lend out the $72,000 of what they made.

There are probably regulatory issues (it's a nightmare in banking) that would prevent them from partnering with local investors, but even if there aren't, banks just aren't going to be interested in partnering with an investor to get high dollar on their REO's. I think it's a good idea to approach such banks, but look for a different partner to bring the money and make it easy on the bank by just taking the property off their books.

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  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    10y

    Banks can fix and flip if they wanted, but that's not the business they're in. The big problem is banks want this excess inventory off their books as quickly as possible. Due to fractional reserve banking, banks only have to hold 10% (I think that's what it is now but it may have changed) and can lend out the rest. An REO counts as holdings. Meaning that if they have a $100,000 house sitting on the books, they can't lend out any of it. Even if they sold if for only $80,000, they could then lend out the $72,000 of what they made.

    There are probably regulatory issues (it's a nightmare in banking) that would prevent them from partnering with local investors, but even if there aren't, banks just aren't going to be interested in partnering with an investor to get high dollar on their REO's. I think it's a good idea to approach such banks, but look for a different partner to bring the money and make it easy on the bank by just taking the property off their books.

  • Real Estate Agent · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 66 votes
    10y
    Andrew Syrios Thanks for the response. I figured that this would be the main answer to the question. However, what is the length of time that a bank will hold on to a REO? If it would take a bank at least 2-4 weeks to get rid of the property, (getting rid of being an appropriate term because like you said, banks are not in the real estate business), isn't 2-4 weeks a long enough amount of time for the banks to at least wholetale the property? They can do the rehab that takes the property from a REO full Fixxer upper to a property that can be sold to a homeowner willing to do minor repairs to get a property cheaper. Just my thoughts. Sam Harris.
  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Hi @Shmuel Harris,

    You could present it but I don't think it would work. One reason is they are talking on all the additional risk for only part of the reward. They would still own the place so they need to get additional insurance for liability. They are also now looking at what happens if you can't deliver by the promised date? They still have the holding costs that continue to go up while the project isn't finished (taxes/electric cost of not having the money). If there is a clause that you lose more then what happens when it gets to be where you lose money, they end up holding the bag. Other concerns are what happens if during the rehab a problem is found and going to require an additional 20K in repairs or a bad foundation is found that you didn't know about when you started? They get stuck with dealing with it and losing out. Building permits run into snags and delay the project for an extra 2 months, who's profit does it come out of?

    All of the problems that can come up turn them into house flippers instead of money flippers like they are. They can take the loss and write it off and lend out more money and do what they do best. Just my 2 cents but nobody ever made it by listening to people tell them it can't be done :)

    Making it work could prove to be very profitable so I wouldn't say give up on it!

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    I do have friends who do cleanups and minor repairs on REO properties, for cash services, not JV or partnerships.

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