Getting serious about trustee sales.

Getting serious about trustee sales.

Carpenter · CA · Member since 2008 · 17 posts · 7 votes

So myself and a friend are looking at buying homes from the trustee sales here in OC and LA county. We have met quite a few people who would be glad to use our money and split the deals 50/50. We don't want to do that.

Here is the good news:
From what I could gather from a gentlemen who buys about 10 properties a month, he is ending up with about $30000 (gross) after he rehabs/sells them. His target is SFR with an ARV 400K give or take. This seems reasonable. Buy for 300K, rehab for $10-25K, and expect 10% to go to commission/closing costs/etc.. These are nice looking homes in decent areas.

I can see the reports on ForeclosureRadar listing what has sold each day at each auction, and we have been standing around watching and writing down the daily history as well. We have driven by many of the sold properties, and done comps on them (no, not on zillow). The deals are there. Period.

Here is the bad news:
Everyone I talk to tells me, "I am going to lose my shirt. I am inexperienced and over my head. Or I am wasting my time trying to find a needle in a haystack (yes, I know almost every one gets cancelled or postponed.) There are no deals or too much competition. There will be some hidden lien that will wipe us out because we are noobs. REO's are a better way to go."

There is a piece or two of the puzzle we've yet to figure out. How do we accurately review title on the MASSIVE # of homes we have to inspect and keep in our database? There are plenty of sites where you can get basic title info, but we are obviously nervous about missing something. There just isn't time to go to the county and look up records on all these places. And there certainly isn't money there to pay title companies for the job. There are just too many properties!

OR

Do we need to get smarter about this and just pony up the dough for title research on a select number of houses, after calling the trustee just before (or on the morning of) the sale date? In the hopes, of course, of having a higher ratio of houses we can bid on? In other words, do all the driving, inspection, and comp work on tons of homes, but only pay for title research on a select few that are more likely to be sold that day.

The fact of the matter is that the same people are at the sales every day, and they aren't there if they are losing money. The answers are out there, we just don't have them all quite yet. Any input is appreciated, even if I file it under the "bad news" column.

Thank you,
David

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Rental Property Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2008 · 189 posts · 75 votes
16y

In my area only the guys with deep pockets play the trustee sale game. Its all about risk/reward, the risk is much higher but so to can be the reward. We had a local investor who did alot of trustee sales speak at a REI club meeting. He wasn't selling anything just giving insight into his world. He gave 4 different extreme examples of profit/loss. His largest profit was over 200K but he had a couple of ~80K losses. In this stage of my life I can't afford to lose 80K so I will stick with REOs/HUDs where I have been averaging 20% of ARV in net profit with relatively low risk (I get to inspect the property, I get clean title, and I only buy if renting it out makes a decent 2nd exit strategy).

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  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Member since 2010 · 33 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    Shari,
    I have a Company that finds properties to be auctioned and analyzes them. At this time, I am not participating at the trustees sale. My Company sells information to investors who are interested in Auctions. In the long run, I will be purchasing for myself, if not, along with other investors. Yes, I could represent them to resell the property when theyre done fixing it up and want to find the end buyer.

  • Carpenter · CA · Member since 2008 · 17 posts · 7 votes
    15y

    UPDATE:

    I hate when threads end up going nowhere, so I am finally back to fill you all in on the status of our venture. My friend is on his 4th property. I am out of the action for now (working on an e-commerce site with my wife), but thinking of splitting a deal with him soon.

    Anyway....

    For months we went to the auctions, watched and researched properties, and generally fumbled around getting nowhere. As mentioned elsewhere in this post, Orange County is worthless. A guy named greg (or craig?) and his DEEP pockets bids nearly every sale up until he is the winner. When we were going late last year, 30-50 people would show up and he would take down 7 out of every 8 properties. Ugh. I researched the comps on several of the properties he bought and he is running very thin margins. But if you buy 30 houses a month, i guess you can afford to do that. I'm surprised no one has pulled a "Tanya Harding" on him yet. j/k!

    Eventually after going it alone and getting nowhere, we met someone at the norwalk auctions with a team of people (title checking, running comps, driving properties, etc..) willing to buy on our behalf. He has been there for years. He charges 5% for his troubles. Ouch. 15 Grand on a $300K house! He doesn't guarantee anything, but states that, on average, 1 in 10 homes is a dud, and 1 in 10 is a home run.

    On to his Story...

    1. First property bought in jan this year (for about $300K) in Carson, CA. It took him way too long to get the tenant out. Start to closing escrow was nearly 4 months, and he sold for $405K. He spent just over $25K on rehab, 5% to our friend at the auction, and ? on closing costs. he ended up making about $40K on his first deal. Not bad if you ask me, even though when you ask him, he just bitches about how much of a pain it was.

    2. bought before the house in carson closed, I don't know the specifics of this one, except to say that he was "getting anxious" and got trigger happy enough to grab a property with a thin margin. He made "nothing" on the second house. But didn't lose anything either. Of interest may be the fact that the tenants pack-ed up and left pretty quickly when offered $2500 cash for keys. I believe he will be offering this from now on. time is money right?

    3. A redemption to his poor decision making on #2 was found in inglewood. Or so he thought.... He was to make an easy $50K on this one (bought in the low 200's) which needed only minor cleanup, and was vacant. He got the locks changed, and within a day or two of the purchase, the sale was canceled by the bank. I didn't know they could do this, but....they did. He was NOT happy!

    4. He bought this recently. It is in compton, bought for just under $200K. Comps are between 260-300 depending on whether or not you count the huge unpermitted addition in the value. House is in decent shape.

    I'll wrap this up with a few more things of note. Since B of A halted the forclosures, the daily sales at norwalk have plummeted. There weren't all that many to begin with, and now there are under ten a day according to him. I have found some people on BP that wholesale in socal, but have not made contact yet.

    He has a realtor listing these now for 1%!!! He takes the pics, writes the description, and emails it to the agent. Amazing.

    Feel free to ask any questions, and I promise not to take over a year to reply next time!

    Here is a pic of him in one of the police cars during the eviction process at property #1 in Carson. :mrgreen:

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Thanks for the update. I wish more people would report on the results of their deals.

    I remembered this thread and the disagreement I had with Edgardo Cruz about his valuations and claims about the trustee sales so I decided to go back and check that one out for results too.
    He had recommended that 15218 Cobalt Street Sylmar Ca 91342 was a great deal at $325K because it was worth $515-525. I questioned that value and he chided me for using Zillow as a starting point. Zillow said $379K.
    Well as it happens this property has just gone pending 5 months later. It was listed at $399K and I am told the pending price is $381K. So Zillow was off by .6% and Mr. Cruz was off by 35%.
    Still looks like a small profit for the investor but nothing like Mr Cruz estimated. Realtor said $25K was spent in rehab.
    I guess the moral of both stories is you win some and lose some but nothing is a slam dunk. So when people claim it is, be skeptical.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Member since 2010 · 33 posts · 4 votes
    15y

    You know you could sell the property at a lower value if you like. As you can see, redfin states that the property was only in the market for 20 days. All depending on how much time you have to market the property, condition of the property (how well you rehabilitated the property to justify your asking price) and of course the condition of financing at the time of sale. of course, I can get a buyer quicker at a lesser price. dont you agree?

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Nobody discounts a property worth $525K to $381K in order to move it quicker. I was willing to consider that perhaps you made an honest mistake in your original comp, but your most recent post paints you in a more unflattering light.

    And 20 days DOM is about the type of DOM a typical flipper is looking for. It is neither unusually short nor unusually long.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y

    I agree with Vikram - in that price range, nobody is going to forego $140k of profits just for a quick sale.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Member since 2010 · 33 posts · 4 votes
    15y

    I dont flatter. Its better black and white....opinions
    Additionally, there are wholesalers out there too not just flippers..
    Owners can do whatever they like at their own discretion. Not all owners are flippers. I believe title is showing that the current owners on the property is an LLC (possibly an REO or an investor). Not a typical homeowner that wants the highest bid for their property...
    This is just my opinion and may differ from others.

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