Best option to take when investing in Spain

Best option to take when investing in Spain

Simpsonville, SC · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes

Hello, this is my first post I'm new to the forum and I'm a newbie to the real estate world.

Does anybody have any experience in investing in Spain?

I'm currently living here and it's where I plan on starting my venture!

However..... after reading up on the numerous amount of taxes there are here during the buying and selling process I'm struggling to choose what path to take,

If anybody has had or is currently having success here I would love to here from you,

Thanks 

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Rental Property Investor · Barcelona, Spain · Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 22 votes
8y

Dear all,

It's great to see interest in Spanish real estate picking up! I was born in Barcelona but lived in London during the worst years of the financial crisis. Ironically, during the worst months, I was flying to Madrid on a weekly basis to assist the Spanish Government and European authorities to sort out the mess the property market was back then. It was extremely interesting and a huge personal experience.

Where to buy in Spain? As @Erwin Groenendijk mentioned, there are opportunities everywhere, so I guess it is only a matter of personal goals and preferences. As I believe it's been already said, the largest hedge funds bought thousands of heavily discounted properties in 2011-2013, unloading their investments as early as 2014-2016. 

That being said, I think international investors should stick to big capital cities unless accompanied by very knowleadgeable experts. Alternatively, when investing in vacation areas, they should be able to bear a higher risk or at least be happy spending some time in their property if the market turns sour, hopefully enjoying some sunshine.

Although properties in Barcelona have strongly appreciated when compared to the worst times, there's still room for higher appreciation. Making offers 50% below the asking price (as @Adrià Creixell suggests) today may work only with desperate sellers. I'm not saying there aren't anymore, but finding them in today's market environment is surely more challenging than in it was in 2011, when I remeber buying with up to 60% discounts.

With regards to rents in Barcelona, I do believe they are high compared to the average disposable income, but I am afraid we are running towards a city model such as London and Paris. Would rents in Barcelona increase? Definitely. For how long? Who knows...because while salaries in Paris and London may sustain high rents, the average salary in Barcelona is relatively low vs. the rents.

I think @Aydin Ozturk knows what he does. Nearby cities with universities and good transportation to/from Barcelona will offer higher ROIs in the short term.

@Andrew Stephens Spanish law is very tenant-oriented, however, the length of the rental agreement is usually 1-3 years. Tenants have the right to stay if they wish up to 3 years (provided the pay the rent!). After 3 years, a new contract should be negotiated and signed in case they want to stay. Cities such as Barcelona have a high turnover and tenants move quite often (every 2-3 years).

Beware though that back in the old days (pre 1985), tenants could have right to a rent for life with very limited increases. So if you buy any property with an existing tenant, make sure they don't have one of those agreements or you'll regret buying a "cheap" deal.

To international investors, I definitely recommend hiring a local property expert who will guide and accompany you through the legal process. I wouldn't hire just a broker, but an expert who could help you finding the right property for you as well as any legal and tax matters. Ideally, they should coordinate with your home tax advisor.

Hope my experience is of use to some of you guys. Will be great to share more insights with you. What are you up at the moment? Any live deals?

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Barcelona, Catalunya · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Hello @Jamil Azimov,

    I have the impression that is a bit expensive (the flat that you bought). I know that the market is pushing towards Ruzafa, but this area is really into speculation. Locals could not afford that. 

    We are renovating a building in Ciutat Vella district and we are selling the penthouse for 250k with a 40sqm terrace. But the flats on the 2nd floor for 140k.

    Anyway, good luck, and in case you need help, just send us a inbox message to me or @Erwin Groenendijk. Specially with contractors, we really have a good one.

  • Investor · Barcelona & Valencia (Spain) · Member since 2017 · 322 posts · 177 votes
    7y

    And what is your plan for the long term? Do this over and over again in Valencia? Don't know if you are living in the city, but, if you do, it would be nice to meet, exchange ideas, and to show each other the projects we are working on.

    I'm sure you will do fine. Try to keep the costs of the rehab low and find a way to structure the deal in the right way. The first time is always challenging, just like we are experiencing always trying to do things better.

    Erwin

  • Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Adrià Creixell:

    Hello @Jamil Azimov,

    I have the impression that is a bit expensive (the flat that you bought). I know that the market is pushing towards Ruzafa, but this area is really into speculation. Locals could not afford that. 

    We are renovating a building in Ciutat Vella district and we are selling the penthouse for 250k with a 40sqm terrace. But the flats on the 2nd floor for 140k.

    Anyway, good luck, and in case you need help, just send us a inbox message to me or @Erwin Groenendijk. Specially with contractors, we really have a good one.

    Unfortunately i didn’t know you before i have bought it, but my agent convinced me that this is a good option. I hope not to loose the money and get some experience.  Renovating building should be much more interesting, maybe one day i will join this business as well! Good luck to you too and thanks for your attention and suggestions.

  • Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Erwin Groenendijk:

    And what is your plan for the long term? Do this over and over again in Valencia? Don't know if you are living in the city, but, if you do, it would be nice to meet, exchange ideas, and to show each other the projects we are working on.

    I'm sure you will do fine. Try to keep the costs of the rehab low and find a way to structure the deal in the right way. The first time is always challenging, just like we are experiencing always trying to do things better.

    Erwin

    Erwin, in general the idea is just as you said, doing it over and over, investing back the profit until some certain limit,  after will look for more options like construction and property development. I am not in Valencia unfortunately, doing this businnes distantly. Next time i am in Valencia i would love to meet with you guys to see what else can be done. Good luck.

    Jamil

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Barcelona, Catalunya · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Hello @Jamil Azimov,

    The price it's ok, but it's retail one, not amazing for a flip. But to live in or to rent it, it's ok.

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Hello,

    I would like to invest in Spain. We have a Sl. However the bank (Sabadell) is requiring us to pay cash 50% of the asset price. Are there banks in Spain that don't require such a pay down? I was thinking more like 25-30%.

    Thanks for your help

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Barcelona, Catalunya · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Rocky Balbosa:

    Hello,

    I would like to invest in Spain. We have a Sl. However the bank (Sabadell) is requiring us to pay cash 50% of the asset price. Are there banks in Spain that don't require such a pay down? I was thinking more like 25-30%.

    Thanks for your help

    Hello Rocky,

    For non residents they ask that level of cash. 

    Cheers.

  • Specialist · Barcelona, Spain · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 7 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Rocky Balbosa:

    Hello,

    I would like to invest in Spain. We have a Sl. However the bank (Sabadell) is requiring us to pay cash 50% of the asset price. Are there banks in Spain that don't require such a pay down? I was thinking more like 25-30%.

    Thanks for your help

  • Specialist · Barcelona, Spain · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    After investing in your first property, the bank with which you took out your first mortgage will generally offer a better rate for subsequent purchases. Also depends on your nationality. The most they will offer non-residents is 60-70%.

  • Investor · Valencia, Spain · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 8 votes
    7y

    Hello @Jamil Azimov

    did you end up buying in Ruzafa? I'm researching after repairs values in that neighbourhood right now and I'm interested to follow your flip there (if it ended up happening) as it would become a great comparable for me.

  • Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Africa Estrada:

    Hello @Jamil Azimov

    did you end up buying in Ruzafa? I'm researching after repairs values in that neighbourhood right now and I'm interested to follow your flip there (if it ended up happening) as it would become a great comparable for me.

    Hi Africa, sorry for the late reply. I did buy the apartment and in fact have already finished repair and listed the apartment for sale. The first listing were too overpriced and now i am reducing the price closer to real market price. It have been listed for 4 week for now. Hopefully after reduction it will find its buyer. 

    A little problem have appeared In Ruzafa area at the moment, if you buy an apartment which were inherited, within the time there is a possibility that some relatives can claim the property disregarding direct heritor. I am planning to visit Valencia in mid of April (hopefully to sign the contract) and i will be happy to meet and share my little experience. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Barcelona, Catalunya · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Well, that's not something about Ruzafa... If the inheritance papers are not correct, and the property owner is not clear... then yes, someone could claim the property...

  • Investor · Valencia, Spain · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 8 votes
    7y
    Hi  again @Jamil Azimov 
    how did things ended with your Ruzzafa flip? hopefully you were able to sell it by now? I'm in Valencia now, have been here for 2 months now and Ibeen looking at great opportunies all over Valencia. I noticed Russafa is a bit overpriced in terms and tried to get one there but I was overbidded. I finally found a good one in Patraix and another one in Nazaret, I'm now trying to find private investors to collab with. If you have 5 minutes oneof thesedays I would love to connect via phone and chat about your experience. Let me know if at all possible. Regards,



    Originally posted by @Jamil Azimov:
    Originally posted by @Africa Estrada:

    Hello @Jamil Azimov

    did you end up buying in Ruzafa? I'm researching after repairs values in that neighbourhood right now and I'm interested to follow your flip there (if it ended up happening) as it would become a great comparable for me.

    Hi Africa, sorry for the late reply. I did buy the apartment and in fact have already finished repair and listed the apartment for sale. The first listing were too overpriced and now i am reducing the price closer to real market price. It have been listed for 4 week for now. Hopefully after reduction it will find its buyer. 

    A little problem have appeared In Ruzafa area at the moment, if you buy an apartment which were inherited, within the time there is a possibility that some relatives can claim the property disregarding direct heritor. I am planning to visit Valencia in mid of April (hopefully to sign the contract) and i will be happy to meet and share my little experience. 

  • Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    Hi @Africa Estrada, i will be happy to have a chat. At the moment i am in my home country and we are 3 hours ahead from Spain, we can agree in time that will be convenient for both of us to arrange a call. I will arrive to Valencia on 25th June, if you going to be there by that time it will be great to meet. 

    Originally posted by @Africa Estrada
  • Real Estate Agent · Springfield VA · Member since 2018 · 480 posts · 400 votes
    7y

    Hola amigos, 

    I am from Valencia and live in Washington DC now. I have read all the thread since I am planning to buy my first flip in Valencia this summer. I am going to be researching all the areas. I'll be there July 1st and staying there for two months analyzing everything.

    @Jamil Azimov I also want to follow your project to see how everything turns out. 

    Lets meet for coffee in Valencia. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Barcelona, Catalunya · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Hello @Joaquin Camarasa,

    We are quite active in Valencia, let us know if we could help in anyway.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Barcelona, Catalunya · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Hello,

    We are renovating a building in Valencia city centre (installing elevator, renovating common areas and the flats from inside). We own all the flats except one, the person that owns this flat wants to sell. If anyone it's interested to buy&hold or to do a flip collaborating with us, feel invited to contact us through inbox. 

    Cheers.

  • Realtor · Marbella · Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Hi Ben, Spain is a very interesting place in Europe. It can be also confusing where to buy in Spain. The Southern coast specially the Costa Del Sol is the nicer part. It does make more sense when you visit but in my experience that I explored all parts of Spain, Marbella is the place to gin to, 50% of habitats international, wealthy and high class, host of many 5 star hotels abscond superb golf courses, plus Michelin rated restaurants. Hotels are expensive hence many people buy property here and rent it to holiday makers. Marbella also enjoys a microclimate with no winters as such. Hope this is helpful. 

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    Hi all

    As a French living in Norway with a Spanish wife from Valencia I have potentially 3 markets I can invest in. I'll need to analyze them and see where the numbers make more sense. But Valencia is where I want to focus first. The plan is to BRRRR if the banks allow me...

    Any Spanish blog/website etc you would recommend to read or follow?  I'd like to see what "rules of thumbs" are recommended for the Spanish market. For instance the 1% rule seems very hard to reach in those countries.

  • Investor · Barcelona & Valencia (Spain) · Member since 2017 · 322 posts · 177 votes
    7y

    @Johann Eriksen, have you been doing real estate projects before? It all starts with your experience in general and then applying it to the Spanish market to be able to start BRRRR'ing. The method deals with renovation works, needing to have contacts, and knowing the bank system, to name a few. The 1% is indeed hard in Spain to achieve.

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Erwin Groenendijk I just have a rental today in Norway that I will sell in autumn, that is why I cannot start before end of year. I'm new to BRRRR though, just finished with the book from David Greene.
    I have a reliable contact in Valencia that I'll meet in couple of weeks that is already in the rehab business, hoping to get good insights from him! 

  • Investor · Barcelona & Valencia (Spain) · Member since 2017 · 322 posts · 177 votes
    7y

    @Johann Eriksen, that is already a good start. @Adrià Creixell and me have several projects now in Valencia and we are considering taking on two more in the upcoming time, so, if you are around Valencia, let us know to meet up. You can have a look at some flips that we are doing there for example.

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Erwin Groenendijk thanks for the opportunity, I'll PM you 👍

  • Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Hola!

    I am new here and completely new to real state. I am from Madrid but based on the US (do my taxes here). I would like to buy a rental property to hold in Valencia soon. Don’t plan to escalate to more rentals, but just to have a property for now that can be rented long term and be paid by itself. 

    I have been looking on idealista at ciutat bella and rufassa, max 150k, good condition,exterior, and as big as possible. Would like to find something ready to rent, since wouldn’t like to deal with renovations from abroad. What are your thoughts about this plan in general?

    Have around 80k € cash available: should I put as much for down payment as possible? The mortgage conditions are not as good as if I were a Spanish resident. Any particular bank recommended?

    I will travel to Valencia in December, and perhaps September. What should I do to progress with my search and organizing next steps before travelling?

    Adrià, is the flat (new elevator) still available?

    Thanks!

    Raúl

    @Adrià Creixell @Erwin Groenendijk @Joaquin Camarasa @Jamil Azimov

  • Investor · Barcelona & Valencia (Spain) · Member since 2017 · 322 posts · 177 votes
    7y

    Hi @Raul Gomez, buying for less than 150k for a big completely renovated place in these neighborhoods will be difficult. @Adrià Creixell and me are now selling one a 120m2 bajo exterior including 10m2 patio in Mont Olivete, next to Ruzafa for 180k. It will only most likely not be available until September/December. Will send you a PM. 

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