Saratoga Springs, UT · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 7 votes
The Utah market is bone dry. Finding investment deals for buy and holds is nigh unto impossible right now, but I see deals being offered up all over the country. Would you suggest that I look into long distance investments?
Every time one posts about looking at long distance investing, there are lots and lots of suggestions for the best places to invest in the country. Every single poster will tout the market they know best without any knowledge of other markets, including the one you're in.
My recommendation is always to completely exhaust your own market for opportunity before looking elsewhere. And there are opportunities in every market. And at the end of the day, your back yard is what you know best.
And luckily for you, your back yard is Utah that is near the top of every indicator list, yet less expensive than most coastal markets. If you're truly a buy-and-hold investor, what market can you think of that's got a better 10-30 year outlook than Utah?
The gold standard in investing is to outperform the market. So all we have to do is help you find a few drops in the "bone dry" desert!
Rental Property Investor · Lehi, UT · Member since 2015 · 195 posts · 133 votes
9y
@Lance Card If you are looking on the mls, you are right. It feels like you are overpaying for everything and nothing will cash flow. I think the key is finding an investment strategy that you love. I have several friends who are investing in Illinois, or other places with low appreciation, but good cash flow. I'm looking in Vernal right now for that reason. You can still find deals, but it requires a lot of networking and digging for them. If you want a local option, working with builders and having them build for a set price is working well for some. But again, it works better for flipping than for buy and holds.
I ran into the same issue here in New York. As a result, I invested out of state. Truth be told, I haven't looked back. You just need to find the right team and shadow those that have done it successfully. I highly recommend going to your local networking events and listening to some pod casts on the site. Best of luck and if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.
Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 367 votes
9y
Lance Card how's it going, well Rebecca is right Illinois does have some upside to investing here. I have some out of state investors from California, Colorado and New York that want to invest in chicago. Good ROI on flips are kinda hard to come by as of now. But it's only because the market is so tight right now. But even for cash following rentals it's not uncommon to find something for 15% on average. The deals just aren't as plentiful. Also if I were any of you guys from Utah looking to invest in the Midwest I would take a look at Indiana as well. That market is just as tight as well but the taxes are much cheaper and overall cost of living is much cheaper than Illinois. Let me know if you need any assistance with anything. We have our own rehab crew as well as property managers for out of state investors as well as international investors. This is for both Indiana and Illinois markets.
Saratoga Springs, UT · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 7 votes
9y
Thank you all for your responses. From everything I've read and the experiences of others, long-distance investing is a possibility but you really have to develop that relationship with a reliable team, or teams, in the area you want to invest in.
As for Utah, I've not heard a thing about Vernal, but have been directed to look more into the Tooele and Ogden marketplaces.
Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 45 votes
9y
@Lance Card You hit the nail on the head. Its super important to have a knowledgeable team on the ground that you can trust. They should know the area really well. A good way to get the ball rolling on this is to maybe reach out to some people in the areas your are looking to invest it. They should be able to refer you to a few agents who have experience working with investors and can help you understand the market & comps better.
While long-term investing may not be optimal for most, a huge positive from it is that it takes away the emotion from investing, so you will rely more heaily on your numbers. This is especially true if you trust your team enough to never see the house in person for yourself :)
Investor/Developer · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 106 votes
9y
@Lance Card I have also started looking in tooele/stansbury park area. The commute from stansbury park to salt lake city takes the same amount of time as commuting from west jordan to the city (with all the traffic and everything). And homes are much cheaper in tooele area, so a lot of families are viewing it as a "no brainer". Just some thoughts I've picked up as I've talked with agents in the area(s). Good luck to you!
Real Estate Agent · Brandenburg, KY · Member since 2015 · 277 posts · 68 votes
9y
Sounds like you're on the right track and received great feedback already. If you're going to invest out of area/state, pick a location you're familiar with or willing to become familiar with it. Learn the "laws" of the new area, if you go that route. Is it a landlord or tenant friendly state? Any commom property issues in the area (for example, here in central Texas, foundation problems are considered normal)? Lastly, you must have a good team!
Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 223 posts · 185 votes
9y
Investing out of state can be a breeze with the right tools/ team in place. I will say training a team can be a nightmare so partnering up with someone who can train the team "in house" maybe a great strategy @Lance Card !!
Saratoga Springs, UT · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 7 votes
9y
@Justin Hammond I had heard that Stansbury Park was viable, but the quality of renter was in question.
So, here's the kicker (thanks again for the additional thoughts, everyone). How does one connect with such teams? For example, I have a brother-in-law who would be perfect for this type of thing in South Carolina, but so far, reaching out to him has fallen flat.
Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 223 posts · 185 votes
9y
@Lance Card I invest personally in South Carolina & with Boeing along with other big companies such as AUDI moving huge portions of their manufacturing to our humble state we have grown tremendously in the last few years. The time is now, however i think creating a system that you can just hand off for your brother to run may be beneficial if you'd like to know more about the South Carolina market more specifically ask away Im a native and have been here all my life.
Investor · Hamilton, OH · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 10 votes
9y
@Lance Card
Check out Cincinnati. Just in our MLS right now, we have 229 multi family units for sale RIGHT NOW, averaging almost 2 new listings daily, not too mention what isn't listed. Vacancies in most area are very low and do not last long. Get a PM you trust, as some areas are a little rough. There is plenty to choose from. Feel free to reach out to me for some info.
Investor · West Jordan, UT · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 31 votes
9y
Utah isnt bone dry. You just need to know the right people and look at more deals. We just sold two properties to one of our investors. ARV of 200K, PP on both of 154,000. both needed about 10K in Reno. Not a home run on either, but two solid base hits. ive seen some good off market deals as well. Go to the REIA's and network with wholesalers. look at 3X as many deals as you have been looking at. You will find some. look harder.
Real Estate Broker · Columbia, SC · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 110 votes
9y
You can believe it or not but we work with two Utah investors who put money here. Ogden? I will have to look at the numbers but I think they compare poorly to the South.
Every time one posts about looking at long distance investing, there are lots and lots of suggestions for the best places to invest in the country. Every single poster will tout the market they know best without any knowledge of other markets, including the one you're in.
My recommendation is always to completely exhaust your own market for opportunity before looking elsewhere. And there are opportunities in every market. And at the end of the day, your back yard is what you know best.
And luckily for you, your back yard is Utah that is near the top of every indicator list, yet less expensive than most coastal markets. If you're truly a buy-and-hold investor, what market can you think of that's got a better 10-30 year outlook than Utah?
The gold standard in investing is to outperform the market. So all we have to do is help you find a few drops in the "bone dry" desert!
Investor · Draper, UT · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 57 votes
9y
I agree with @William Hochstedler . It's the 80/20 rule. 20% of the people got 80% of the deals. And the remaining 80% of people fighting to get the 20% deals. So learn from the 20% and see why they are getting the 80% of the deals.
Saratoga Springs, UT · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 7 votes
9y
Thank you for the continued suggestions. I'm eating them up. @William Hochstedler , I will be in touch with you so we can proceed as previously discussed. Everyone else will definitely be on my list of possibilities. I am just getting into the game and want to make sure I'm covering my bases.
Rental Property Investor · Lehi, UT · Member since 2015 · 195 posts · 133 votes
9y
@Justin Hammond There isn't anywhere near the demand in Vernal that there is in Utah county, but we have a duplex under contract and already have 2 applications in 2 weeks. One we will most likely accept, the other not. The main idea is that as gas prices start to rise, the Vernal market will come back. We are buying low and going against the crowd. It may come back to hurt us, but we are picking up the duplex for $158,800, renting it for $750 per side and have 1 tenant set up before we even close on it. I think we will be fine.
Real Estate Broker · Columbia, SC · Member since 2015 · 148 posts · 110 votes
9y
Rebecca
In South Carolina, that same duplex is 150 from MLS, 125k if you pick a little and 80k if you put effort into it. Having said that, there is very little long-term appreciation. These are B- properties in B- neighborhoods. They are "plodders"; workhorses that offer few surprises or bursts of energy.
Here is a gift; 1528 Glendale in Columbia. My numbers are pay 42k, spend 40 and each side rents for 750 for the rest of time. My 40k rehab includes new windows and new roof.
I suppose my point is how different each market is. Yet how much the math stays the same. Christopher
In South Carolina, that same duplex is 150 from MLS, 125k if you pick a little and 80k if you put effort into it. Having said that, there is very little long-term appreciation. These are B- properties in B- neighborhoods. They are "plodders"; workhorses that offer few surprises or bursts of energy.
Here is a gift; 1528 Glendale in Columbia. My numbers are pay 42k, spend 40 and each side rents for 750 for the rest of time. My 40k rehab includes new windows and new roof.
I suppose my point is how different each market is. Yet how much the math stays the same. Christopher
She is referring to a remote area of UT that is currently depressed by low oil prices. Assuming oil rebounds, her duplex will probably be worth 300K in 5 years when oil is booming again. and be renting for 1100-2000/unit. Its a big appreciation play.
In South Carolina, that same duplex is 150 from MLS, 125k if you pick a little and 80k if you put effort into it. Having said that, there is very little long-term appreciation. These are B- properties in B- neighborhoods. They are "plodders"; workhorses that offer few surprises or bursts of energy.
Here is a gift; 1528 Glendale in Columbia. My numbers are pay 42k, spend 40 and each side rents for 750 for the rest of time. My 40k rehab includes new windows and new roof.
I suppose my point is how different each market is. Yet how much the math stays the same. Christopher
She is referring to a remote area of UT that is currently depressed by low oil prices. Assuming oil rebounds, her duplex will probably be worth 300K in 5 years when oil is booming again. and be renting for 1100-2000/unit. Its a big appreciation play.
Lo these many years ago I lived in Rifle, Colorado. Shale oil country. Boom and bust but when it booms, hang on! Vernal is probably very similar. There is definitely the prospect of appreciation which is much less likely in a market like Columbia, as you point out.