Sell Or Keep Renting Out Home In San Francisco 2017

Sell Or Keep Renting Out Home In San Francisco 2017

Sam DogenPro Member
San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes

Howdy Folks!

I'm new to the BP community and I'm excited to be here!  I'm a real estate fanatic. But now that I'm middle-aged (40), I'd like to simplify life. San Francisco has had a great rocket ship like run and I'm strongly thinking about de-risking since I have two SFHs and one paid of 2/2 condo in SF.

Situation:

* Single family home bought in the Marina for $1.52M in early 2005.

* Have a written offer for $2.732M. Hasn't released financing contingency yet, but said bank is set to close and fund by June 20. This gives me an OUT to cancel the deal if I find something better b/c I did not give him a financing contingency extension. I accepted their offer which removed their inspection contingency after inspection was given. 

* 4 years left on a 5/1 ARM at only 2.375%. I haggled the crap out of my bank to get this rate in 2016.

* Was renting the home for $9,000 a month. Now, after one month of searching, I haven't found anybody suitable to pay that price. The conclusion: rent has gone down, and I can likely only get $8,000 - $8,500 due to a large surge in new construction luxury condos. 

* The 1% rule or the 100X rule says that I should buy a $9,000/month rental property for $900,000 or less, or sell a $9,000/month property if under 1%. I'm at 303X monthly rent, or 0.33%, which seems absurdly expensive. But that's if I can get $9,000/month, which I can't.

* At $9,000/month, I cash flow after all expenses about $4,500 a month. If the mortgage is paid off, then the property will cash flow about $7,000/month because property taxes are $21,888 / year!

Why I'm Reluctant To Sell:

* Commissions. I got the level down to 4.5%. But that's still $123,000!

* Transfer Tax = ~$25,000

* LTGT = Six figures. Haven't figured it out exactly, but will have the $250K/$500K tax free gains.

* A property for my son to live in in 23 years. Can you imagine how expensive SF will be by then? Holy hell!

* Capital appreciate. I believe San Francisco is one of the cheapest international cities in the world. 

* Uber, Airbnb, Pinterest, Dropbox will all go public in the next 3-5 years, creating a tidal wave of billions of liquidity into the ecosystem looking to buy real estate.

I'd love to get everybody's thoughts!

Thanks,

Sam

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Clayton MobleyPro Member
Birmingham, AL · Member since 2014 · 875 posts · 947 votes
9y

@Sam Dogen I saw a few mentions of the 1031 and 121 issues and I wanted to offer some clarity here.

Firstly, let me say that I agree that your first move is to determine your priorities. You have an amazingly valuable property here that could continue cashflow easily with minimal contact from you if you hired a good PM (or had your son do it as a learning exercise). Assuming you want the simplest option, keeping it and letting it appreciate while getting, frankly, some amazing monthly income, is the obvious answer. If you're more focused on increasing monthly income or getting a higher ROI in other markets in exchange for a lower rate of appreciation, that is another option, though more complicated. So, the following advice is given under the assumption that you elect to sell in order to expand your cash flow portfolio:

So, as you know, you need to have lived in the property as your primary residence for at least 24 months our of the past five years. They do not need to be concurrent months, in case that makes a difference to you. If you meet this requirement, then you can take the $250k/$500k (if married filing jointly) tax free under Sec 121. So sounds like that option is already on the table for you, great!

However, it looks like you stand to take away MUCH more than that (congrats!). In addition to CG taxes, any amount of depreciation you could have deducted on your taxes (whether you actually took the deduction or not is irrelevant) is recaptured under Sec 1250 at 25%, so your tax bill on this sale would be.... hefty. So let's look at the best way to parlay your gains into something else without giving uncle sam his cut just yet. As @Arianne L. pointed out, you can combine the Sec 121 exclusion AND the 1031 exchange if you meet some criteria. 

You've already met the criteria for the 121, so now we focus on the 1031. In order for a property to eligible for exchange, you have to be holding it with the intention of maintaining a long-term investment. Since this was a home that you converted into a rental, with the possible intention of passing it along to your son, I think you safely meet that criteria. There is no specific time limit for how long you have to hold the property, though the general rule of thumb is one year or more. So, for example, if you purchased a house to flip and sold it six months later, that's not a 1031 eligible property because there was never the intention to hold it long-term. So I'd say as long as the prop has been rented for at least a year, but not MORE than three years (because then you wouldn't have lived in it for 2 years within the past five), then you can qualify for both the Sec 121 exclusion and a 1031 exchange. If you've rented it for more than three years, then you'd still qualify for the 1031, but you couldn't take the $500k tax free under Sec 121 unless you had to move due to employment changes or other IRS-acceptable reasons.

Ok so, to defer all taxation on a 1031 exchange, you have to roll over the total value of your property into a new investment proper, or multiple props. This means that if you sell at $2.75m and take $500k tax free, you must roll the remaining $2.25m into new investment props. Any amount of profit you take  (outside of the Sec 121 excluded amount) is considered boot and is taxable. That means you can't sell the prop, take $750k in cash ($500k under Sec 121 + $250k) and then replace that additional $250k with a bigger mortgage on the replacement prop. You can put in more equity to the new properties and have less debt, but you can't have more debt and less equity, because that would result in you taking cash from the sale, which would be a taxable event. (Let me know if that wasn't very clear, people often get very confused about this rule).

Since you'll have so much value to play with and are looking for cashflow investments, it's most likely you'll reinvest into multiple properties, or into a large MFR. 1031s have a lot of rules about replacement property identification and timing (which I'm happy to go into if you need a primer, but I'll leave for now) so you'll need to be well versed and have a good Qualified Intermediary in place long before you go to market if you elect to go this route.

Given the value of your currently property, you have a million options for reinvestment, so you'll need plenty of research and vetting time before you pull the trigger on selling it. Take your time and be really honest with yourself about your priorities. The property is flowing nicely and will likely continue to appreciate, so if maximizing ROI at any cost isn't your highest priority, all the legwork involved in the 1031 process may not be worth it to you right now. However, if you decide to go that way, know that the 1031 is a powerful tool. Using this process you can expand your portfolio, and continue to use the 1031 exchange if and when you want to sell your new investment props, leap frogging this current property into who knows how many cash flow properties over the next few decades, and eventually leave the whole lot to your son. Upon your passing, the tax basis of any properties left to your heirs gets 'stepped up' to the market value at the time of your death. Basically, if you die and leave a property to your son, and he sells it right away, he'll essentially pay no taxes because his tax basis will be equal to the market value at that time, leaving him zero taxable gain. It's called the '1031 until you die' strategy and it's hugely powerful when done right. Of course, I'm not getting into estate taxes and the use of trusts here, but given the value of this prop those considerations would need to be taken into account if you elected to use this strategy, just fyi.

Ok that's enough of a ramble from me ;) You're in an enviable position and you have several great options, so do your research and take your time.

Best of luck!

Clayton

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  • Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    9y
    Thoughts from a newbie: Sounds like a cash cow- if you're just looking to simplify, I say hire someone to manage it for you and keep it as a rental. Better yet, teach your kid to manage it so he gets experience before you give it to him. You can use the cash it produces to invest in something else to get you that million in no time. Then do it again and again and again. I think throwing away all that money in taxes and commission and what not would be silly. Especially considering your point about SF only appreciating more and more. Feel free to counter any of my thoughts with experienced logic. I'm here to learn as well
  • Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    All these internet based companies need to think how to generate money before going ipo. My thinking is some will not last long start with Twtr. They will merge or get bought out by big players based elsewhere.

    The easier money makers in internet commerce has already been made. Many newer startup companies do not yet have a profitable model. Competing for ads. Many are just chasing ditto start with Fitbit.

    With more mortgage interest rate hike in the works, how can anyone afford to purchase real estate with a fixed income? The affordability will turn good things around making it ugly. 

    The rent has been down for over 2 years not just in SF. The entire SFBA is like that.  There are plenty of vacant new condos, apts offering free rent 1 or first 2 month free in South Bay.  Next will be home price stabilization if not corrections.  That depends on how many iWatch, Adwords, HomePod they sell.  These are all discretionary spending when there is no disposable income, people just bother with these gadgets.

  • Wholetailer & Architect · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 544 posts · 298 votes
    9y
    How long has the $8500 to $9000/mo rental been a rental? You could possibly 1031 exchange it into another market that has better cash flow. Depends on your goals maximum cash flow or ease of management. 10 houses in 3 different markets might be more safe and diversified but more management and upkeep I say make your son earn a house in the Bay Area don't be basing your strategy on giving it to him. It will bias your decision and possibly lead to him not appreciating it.
  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Sean Walton I'm totally thinking a little bit illogically regarding having a nice place in San Francisco for my son to live in 23 years from now. Who the hell knows what he'll want to do or where he'll want to be.  Issue is, with proposition 13 and the step up function for cost basis, and makes holding on and gifting the property. Enticing. Who wouldn't want to give their child a leg up right? Once your housing is taken care of, even in an expensive city like San Francisco, living is easy. 

    @Sam Shueh - The funny thing is, profits really don't matter. What matters is a liquidity event. Look at Amazon. They don't make any money but they have made thousands of people very very wealthy. That's the same for the upcoming IPOs in the Bay Area. 

    @Nick Thurston -  The counter is diversification of assets and a lower rate of return. If I use a property manager, the rate of return is around 2.4%. I can easily read apply the money into the heartland and earn 10%.  The other counter is I have two other San Francisco properties that will do well if the market continues to do well. I would never not be long San Francisco. I just don't know if it's a good idea to be this long San Francisco after this big of a run.

     Although $6000-$7000 in net cash flow month sounds good, I run an online business which is easier to generate cash flow and easier to maintain. The money is no longer as important to me. A simplification of life is.

  • Investor · Fort Walton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 568 posts · 966 votes
    9y

    @Sam Dogen Hey! Welcome! I read several of your blog posts and it's pretty cool to see you here.

    The section 121 exclusion 250k/500k tax free gains is a good reason to sell. I'm assuming you're living somewhere else now. So the clock's ticking on that exemption

    Like someone said you could sell, qualify for the section 121 exclusion 250/500k tax free, AND 1031 exchange the remainder so you don't have to pay long terms capital gains right now (this is assuming you meet the criteria for both). 

    Regarding the other points - a place for your son to live, the desirability of San Francisco, etc., a lot of those points are subjective, and also hard to predict. What if your son didn't want to live in SF? What if another city becomes the new SF and the appreciation isn't as great? I think it's a great city and I do believe it is very desirable and even more so in the future, but I can't say for sure how much it will appreciate by either. 

    If you did want to keep it, you could refi a good chunk of equity out, lock in some seriously low interest rates, and enjoy the benefits of pulling your cash out but not being taxed. 

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @Sean Walton I'm totally thinking a little bit illogically regarding having a nice place in San Francisco for my son to live in 23 years from now. Who the hell knows what he'll want to do or where he'll want to be.  Issue is, with proposition 13 and the step up function for cost basis, and makes holding on and gifting the property. Enticing. Who wouldn't want to give their child a leg up right? Once your housing is taken care of, even in an expensive city like San Francisco, living is easy. 

    @Sam Shueh - The funny thing is, profits really don't matter. What matters is a liquidity event. Look at Amazon. They don't make any money but they have made thousands of people very very wealthy. That's the same for the upcoming IPOs in the Bay Area. 

    @Nick Thurston -  The counter is diversification of assets and a lower rate of return. If I use a property manager, the rate of return is around 2.4%. I can easily read apply the money into the heartland and earn 10%.  The other counter is I have two other San Francisco properties that will do well if the market continues to do well. I would never not be long San Francisco. I just don't know if it's a good idea to be this long San Francisco after this big of a run.

     Although $6000-$7000 in net cash flow month sounds good, I run an online business which is easier to generate cash flow and easier to maintain. The money is no longer as important to me. A simplification of life is.

    Sounds like you are willing to sell a real estate investment that cash flows 50k annually and appreciated 100,000.00 a year. Cool, does the next investment have that same chance or you looking to time this to pick it up cheaper later. The ladder is likely impossible when inflation and property taxes are factored accordingly. You have good problems sir. 

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    What you have now is a low yield, high growth, high quality assets. If you were to 1031 that property, it would likely be to a lower growth, but higher current income asset. So, do you want the growth or do you want the current yield? If your goal is to simplify, you are not likely to find property anywhere that is easier to manage than what you are sitting on right now ... I mean, a $2.75M multi-family property in a less expensive market will definitely be more management intensive, even if you hire a property manager ... you still have to manage the property manager and count on hiring and firing a few before you find a good one and stay on top of them to keep them from robbing you blind. The only thing more passive than what you have now would be selling them and buying into passive securities like stocks, bonds, REITs, private placements, syndications, etc., but then you are likely paying taxes (unless it is a DST, TICK, or some other security designed to avoid taxes) and definitely giving up control.

  • Professional · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 876 posts · 301 votes
    9y

    Hi @Sam Dogen, I’d like to offer an alternative and share my experience. Many folks I work with are tired of managing property. They want a “hands-off” investment alternative. They don’t want to pay capital gains taxes, and wish to perform a 1031 exchange to solve that issue. DSTs (and TICs in some cases) offer them a viable option.

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Arianne L. - Is it possible to have the 250K/500K tax free gains AND 1031 exchange the overage? If so, that sounds like a NO BRAINER to avoid capital gains tax! Please confirm. I'm just not sure what else I want to buy and where b/c that means more hassle managing tenants again. Maybe I can use the overage to buy a condo for my parents in Honolulu, as they have been wanting to downsize from the house they currently live in. 

    Nice to hear you are a reader of FS! I decided to finally come here b/c of the granularity of the topics (SF) and the big RE community. Big decision I must make this week!

    @Matt R. - Yes, $50K cash flow annually, but nobody knows whether it will continue to appreciate by $100,000 a year. Granted, that's only 3.5% a year but who knows. SF is up about 55% - 60% since 2012 alone, but it's still way cheaper than Manhattan, Hong Kong, and London, to name a few cities. I feel I've found a better return by investing in the heartland of America through real estate crowdfunding. I'm seeing 10% - 13% annual returning deals all over the place.

    So let's say I invest $500,000 a year, if I return 10% a year, that's equal to my cash flow I'd give up from a $2.73M property. Meaning, I'd maintain the cashflow and STILL have $2.23M a year to invest, provided I didn't have a mortgage and had to pay fees and taxes. 

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @David Faulkner - If I sell, I'd reinvest the proceeds into municipal bonds, REITs, and real estate crowdfunding deals in the heartland. All of the investments would yield greater than 2.5% gross, and all would be completely passive.

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Sam Dogen, my guess is if your Buyer is an Owner Occupier, THEY will be less than happy if you renege (not to mention your Agent)! I reckon that at this point of the cycle, you're taking more of a risk if you do NOT proceed with the sale, than if you sell to re-invest the proceeds!*

    * (Provided that $2.732M IS good market value).

    If you can't get TWENTY SEVEN THOUSAND dollars rent per month by buying 3x $900k properties (or 6x $450k, or 12x $225k, or...), are you really trying? 

    [But then you go on to say: "money is no longer as important to me"? Hmmm.]

    Spelling out the pros and cons so well as you have, hasn't helped you reach your own answer?

    Although it's a pity you might not get 2.375% anytime soon again, THAT should not be the kicker!

    You do realize, it's YOU who has to decide, right? All the best... 

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Brent Coombs - It's 2:32am and I just finished writing a 1,350 word post to elaborate on this dilemma.  

    I think I've basically found the clearing price where I've become indifferent as to whether I sell or hold on. If I found that perfect family who wanted to live in my house for 5 years and pay $9,000 / month, I would rent. But I haven't found them after a month of trying. It's always 4-6 guys. And that's a difficult tenant profile to manage.

  • Investor · Fort Walton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 568 posts · 966 votes
    9y

    @Sam Dogen You can, assuming you meet the requirements. Which, to my understanding, is that you have lived there 2 out of the last 5 years and have used it as an investment property for 3 out of the last 5 years.

    Dave foster in the following thread explained how it could happen.

     https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/104/topics/40...

    And the following article also discusses how you can use both section 121 and section 1031 together

    1031 and 121 exclusions

    Yes, it does seem like a no brainer. Start shopping! :)

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @Arianne L. - Is it possible to have the 250K/500K tax free gains AND 1031 exchange the overage? If so, that sounds like a NO BRAINER to avoid capital gains tax! Please confirm. I'm just not sure what else I want to buy and where b/c that means more hassle managing tenants again. Maybe I can use the overage to buy a condo for my parents in Honolulu, as they have been wanting to downsize from the house they currently live in. 

    Nice to hear you are a reader of FS! I decided to finally come here b/c of the granularity of the topics (SF) and the big RE community. Big decision I must make this week!

    @Matt R. - Yes, $50K cash flow annually, but nobody knows whether it will continue to appreciate by $100,000 a year. Granted, that's only 3.5% a year but who knows. SF is up about 55% - 60% since 2012 alone, but it's still way cheaper than Manhattan, Hong Kong, and London, to name a few cities. I feel I've found a better return by investing in the heartland of America through real estate crowdfunding. I'm seeing 10% - 13% annual returning deals all over the place.

    So let's say I invest $500,000 a year, if I return 10% a year, that's equal to my cash flow I'd give up from a $2.73M property. Meaning, I'd maintain the cashflow and STILL have $2.23M a year to invest, provided I didn't have a mortgage and had to pay fees and taxes. 

     True that. The reit I am in would pay you well north of 200k annually passively with that same investment.     

    As far as long term as appreciation trends for S.F. 3% seems conservatively reasonable. 

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Matt R.-what is the ticker or name of the REIT you're currently invested in? Thx

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @Matt R.-what is the ticker or name of the REIT you're currently invested in? Thx

     OHI

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Matt R. - Awesome! I started buying OHI after Trump's victory actually. I also started aggressively buying municipal bonds as well at the end of November - January this year. It was the income opportunity I was looking for, FOREVER!

  • Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @Matt R. - Awesome! I started buying OHI after Trump's victory actually. I also started aggressively buying municipal bonds as well at the end of November - January this year. It was the income opportunity I was looking for, FOREVER!

     Nice. They just broke ground in NYC upper east side for a 24 story luxury version. I think this is actually their first New York property. Not too shabby of a location. 

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 46 posts · 20 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @Arianne L. - Is it possible to have the 250K/500K tax free gains AND 1031 exchange the overage? If so, that sounds like a NO BRAINER to avoid capital gains tax! Please confirm. I'm just not sure what else I want to buy and where b/c that means more hassle managing tenants again. Maybe I can use the overage to buy a condo for my parents in Honolulu, as they have been wanting to downsize from the house they currently live in. 

    Nice to hear you are a reader of FS! I decided to finally come here b/c of the granularity of the topics (SF) and the big RE community. Big decision I must make this week!

    @Matt R. - Yes, $50K cash flow annually, but nobody knows whether it will continue to appreciate by $100,000 a year. Granted, that's only 3.5% a year but who knows. SF is up about 55% - 60% since 2012 alone, but it's still way cheaper than Manhattan, Hong Kong, and London, to name a few cities. I feel I've found a better return by investing in the heartland of America through real estate crowdfunding. I'm seeing 10% - 13% annual returning deals all over the place.

    So let's say I invest $500,000 a year, if I return 10% a year, that's equal to my cash flow I'd give up from a $2.73M property. Meaning, I'd maintain the cashflow and STILL have $2.23M a year to invest, provided I didn't have a mortgage and had to pay fees and taxes. 

     @Sam Dogen thanks for sharing your strategy. Out of curiosity, are you using the typical popular crowdfunding platforms for finding deals, or do you have direct relationships with sponsors and participate in more traditional "offline" syndicated deals?

  • Rental Property Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I'm not so sure the 5-6 roommates is worse than a family with little kids. The adults will probably be low touch, as long as it doesn't become a post-frat-house affair, and in the marina you need to watch out for that ;)

    As for keeping several properties in SF as rentals, look you have blue chip assets. Even if the market dips in values over the next 2-3 years, how much do you think that SFH in the marina will be worth 10 years from now? The reason most people don't have blue chip RE is because they can't afford it! You were fortunate to build a portfolio. Plus it cash flows, you lock in prop 13 savings, and pay down your principal every month too. Trust me, when we have the next run up in prices, you'll be glad you kept everything! And as you said yourself, on an international basis SF is still damn cheap. I own 5 buildings in the city, and I'll be damned if I sell anything, ever.

    The one thing you could toy around with, more for sh*ts and giggles then necessity, is to 1031 exch into an apartment building in SF. You *may* get more cash flow, I'm not sure. But apartment buildings are at an all time high now too. However, as the market slows down, you could consider an apartment building, or a commercial space. And have it professionally managed locally if you wish. This would all depend on the deal of course. But if you found something attractive you could lock it up, and I'm sure easily sell the marina home in time for a reverse 1031 exchange. But barring a great deal, I'd just keep what you have. Too bad you got into a purchase contract, as there will be some friction backing out. But I wouldn't cave in. Keep you SF blue chip RE!

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @David Faulkner - If I sell, I'd reinvest the proceeds into municipal bonds, REITs, and real estate crowdfunding deals in the heartland. All of the investments would yield greater than 2.5% gross, and all would be completely passive.

    True enough ... but you will pay a bunch of transaction costs and capital gains taxes (talk to an escrow company or RE agent and CPA respectively to nail those down) by selling to reinvest in that manner ... also, you will give up control in order to gain passivity and it is not likely IMO that those will grow as quickly over the long term as your current SF RE, though they will yield more. So, those are the trade offs as I see them.

  • Clayton MobleyPro Member
    Birmingham, AL · Member since 2014 · 875 posts · 947 votes
    9y

    @Sam Dogen I saw a few mentions of the 1031 and 121 issues and I wanted to offer some clarity here.

    Firstly, let me say that I agree that your first move is to determine your priorities. You have an amazingly valuable property here that could continue cashflow easily with minimal contact from you if you hired a good PM (or had your son do it as a learning exercise). Assuming you want the simplest option, keeping it and letting it appreciate while getting, frankly, some amazing monthly income, is the obvious answer. If you're more focused on increasing monthly income or getting a higher ROI in other markets in exchange for a lower rate of appreciation, that is another option, though more complicated. So, the following advice is given under the assumption that you elect to sell in order to expand your cash flow portfolio:

    So, as you know, you need to have lived in the property as your primary residence for at least 24 months our of the past five years. They do not need to be concurrent months, in case that makes a difference to you. If you meet this requirement, then you can take the $250k/$500k (if married filing jointly) tax free under Sec 121. So sounds like that option is already on the table for you, great!

    However, it looks like you stand to take away MUCH more than that (congrats!). In addition to CG taxes, any amount of depreciation you could have deducted on your taxes (whether you actually took the deduction or not is irrelevant) is recaptured under Sec 1250 at 25%, so your tax bill on this sale would be.... hefty. So let's look at the best way to parlay your gains into something else without giving uncle sam his cut just yet. As @Arianne L. pointed out, you can combine the Sec 121 exclusion AND the 1031 exchange if you meet some criteria. 

    You've already met the criteria for the 121, so now we focus on the 1031. In order for a property to eligible for exchange, you have to be holding it with the intention of maintaining a long-term investment. Since this was a home that you converted into a rental, with the possible intention of passing it along to your son, I think you safely meet that criteria. There is no specific time limit for how long you have to hold the property, though the general rule of thumb is one year or more. So, for example, if you purchased a house to flip and sold it six months later, that's not a 1031 eligible property because there was never the intention to hold it long-term. So I'd say as long as the prop has been rented for at least a year, but not MORE than three years (because then you wouldn't have lived in it for 2 years within the past five), then you can qualify for both the Sec 121 exclusion and a 1031 exchange. If you've rented it for more than three years, then you'd still qualify for the 1031, but you couldn't take the $500k tax free under Sec 121 unless you had to move due to employment changes or other IRS-acceptable reasons.

    Ok so, to defer all taxation on a 1031 exchange, you have to roll over the total value of your property into a new investment proper, or multiple props. This means that if you sell at $2.75m and take $500k tax free, you must roll the remaining $2.25m into new investment props. Any amount of profit you take  (outside of the Sec 121 excluded amount) is considered boot and is taxable. That means you can't sell the prop, take $750k in cash ($500k under Sec 121 + $250k) and then replace that additional $250k with a bigger mortgage on the replacement prop. You can put in more equity to the new properties and have less debt, but you can't have more debt and less equity, because that would result in you taking cash from the sale, which would be a taxable event. (Let me know if that wasn't very clear, people often get very confused about this rule).

    Since you'll have so much value to play with and are looking for cashflow investments, it's most likely you'll reinvest into multiple properties, or into a large MFR. 1031s have a lot of rules about replacement property identification and timing (which I'm happy to go into if you need a primer, but I'll leave for now) so you'll need to be well versed and have a good Qualified Intermediary in place long before you go to market if you elect to go this route.

    Given the value of your currently property, you have a million options for reinvestment, so you'll need plenty of research and vetting time before you pull the trigger on selling it. Take your time and be really honest with yourself about your priorities. The property is flowing nicely and will likely continue to appreciate, so if maximizing ROI at any cost isn't your highest priority, all the legwork involved in the 1031 process may not be worth it to you right now. However, if you decide to go that way, know that the 1031 is a powerful tool. Using this process you can expand your portfolio, and continue to use the 1031 exchange if and when you want to sell your new investment props, leap frogging this current property into who knows how many cash flow properties over the next few decades, and eventually leave the whole lot to your son. Upon your passing, the tax basis of any properties left to your heirs gets 'stepped up' to the market value at the time of your death. Basically, if you die and leave a property to your son, and he sells it right away, he'll essentially pay no taxes because his tax basis will be equal to the market value at that time, leaving him zero taxable gain. It's called the '1031 until you die' strategy and it's hugely powerful when done right. Of course, I'm not getting into estate taxes and the use of trusts here, but given the value of this prop those considerations would need to be taken into account if you elected to use this strategy, just fyi.

    Ok that's enough of a ramble from me ;) You're in an enviable position and you have several great options, so do your research and take your time.

    Best of luck!

    Clayton

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Clayton Mobley - Thanks for your thoughts!

    Can you clarify where you get the $250K in the equation below? 

    "Ok so, to defer all taxation on a 1031 exchange, you have to roll over the total value of your property into a new investment proper, or multiple props. This means that if you sell at $2.75m and take $500k tax free, you must roll the remaining $2.25m into new investment props. Any amount of profit you take (outside of the Sec 121 excluded amount) is considered boot and is taxable. That means you can't sell the prop, take $750k in cash ($500k under Sec 121 + $250k) and then replace that additional $250k with a bigger mortgage on the replacement prop. You can put in more equity to the new properties and have less debt, but you can't have more debt and less equity, because that would result in you taking cash from the sale, which would be a taxable event. (Let me know if that wasn't very clear, people often get very confused about this rule)."

    Are you also saying for the 1031 exchange portion, I DON'T need to buy a similar property worth $2.75M, but instead only a $2.25M property since the $500K is tax free and under section 121?

    I really don't want to buy $2.75M of new rental property in a lower cost area because that sounds like a lot more properties to manage, which means more headache and stress.

    What I was thinking of doing was buying a $2.75M Honolulu single family home in a nice area like Kahala, rent it out for 2 years, and them move into it once I relocate to Hawaii to be with my family. They say I can move in after 1 year (LTGC cut off), but realistically I won't be moving for a while.

    Sam

  • Sam DogenPro Member
    OP
    San Francisco, CA · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Brent Coombs - $27,000 a month in gross rent on $2.74M? Sign me up! Where should I be looking?

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Sam Dogen:

    @Brent Coombs - $27,000 a month in gross rent on $2.74M? Sign me up! Where should I be looking?

     Sorry, you already ruled out my "secret" by writing: "I really don't want to buy $2.75M of new rental property in a lower cost area". It's BECAUSE of your (and other high income folks) disdain for such a strategy, in favor of "buying a $2.75M Honolulu single family home in a nice area like Kahala" (or such like), that lower income / less picky folk CAN invest in lower cost homes that fetch between 1-2% gross rent per month.

    But as you say - you "really don't want" that answer. Good for you. You're welcome to not venture outside ivory towers. Cheers...

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