North of Boston MA Advice on Renovations and Returns

North of Boston MA Advice on Renovations and Returns

Investor · boxford, MA · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 16 votes

This year we sold our only rental property (thanks to those who advised me on that topic) and sold our own home to move into a different one. Now we're sitting on some cash and would like to reinvest in a new rental. I'm north of Boston in Massachusetts which is a very competitive market, and am open to single families, multis, or condos that I can rent for more than the mortgage for a 15 year loan. I really wanted to do fix and flips or BRRR strategy (depending on exit conditions after updates), but the agent I'm working with seems pretty skeptical on it. People keep telling me that around here that is really for "developers" and I guess I don't rate yet (though I'd like to someday :))

The problem is the market is so hot up here, it seems like the only way I can find a deal that supports my goals is with fixing up more distressed properties that haven't sold right away, so I'm struggling with the best way to use my available capital. Say we have around $100k to put in, we could put 25% down (standard around here for a conventional mortgage on second/investment home) on either 1 $400k home, 2 $200k condos, or 1 less expensive place needing repairs (putting some of our capital against renovation).

I just saw an 1846 built victorian that was "codexed" into two separate units, on a 12,000 sqft lot which used to have a barn structure, and the agent suggested the best value for the property is a flip with the addition of resurrecting that structure (with approvals - this is a historic district) and turn it into two more condos in the back of the lot. The house is totally overpriced, and needs extensive extensive renovation as one unit is basically poorly gutted with a lot of non permitted work, and the other is just a mess. So needless to say, both (unit 1: 4 beds 1 bath 2000 sqft, unit 2: 2 beds 1 bath 1000 sqft) need to be gutted for a price much higher than I have the capital to fund.

My hope on this specific condex was that I could rent the first unit (questionable if it is "liveable" though it is owner occupied now - he's in preforeclosure) to cover the mortgage, while fixing the back unit. However after my showing I think its a much bigger project than I anticipated and likely wouldn't qualify for traditional financing, so wanted to ask the community about how larger developers are turning these big old houses into multiple condos all over Boston. Its happening a lot around here, so I assume people are making good money doing it. I'm not afraid of a big project (though my agent is), I just don't know where to start or how to finance - or if I really should just run away like my agent concluded.

The other general question I'm seeking advice on is just if anyone has opinions in general for the Boston area on the best use of my funds at this point - a little vague I know, and while my agent is trying to give me the best advice he knows to (and he works with other investors), I just want to get some different perspectives because he seems fairly against anything needing any renovation.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your thoughts!

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  • Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 187 posts · 40 votes
    9y

    Hi @Becky C., 

    Yes it is a very competitive market around here but there are always deals to be found. I can understand why your agent might be shying away from the idea, but it would ultimately depend on what you are looking to do. I would definitely recommend doing your due diligence on any property you are looking at and get all of the information on it that is available to the public before even making an offer.

    The tough part about doing fix and flips in this market is that you can never really predict where the market will go. For the past few years, it has been rising dramatically and prices are very high. What I have noticed is that some people are tired of paying so much for properties and they are not getting the incredible amounts of offers they were getting earlier in the year. 

    I guess it would depend on where you are looking and how the market would affect the properties you are working on. There is an incredible rise in interest in MF properties (probably from people actually seeing the potential with house hacking, investing, etc.) and they seem to be a good investment.

    I hope that helps a little bit! Good Luck!

  • Investor · boxford, MA · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Michael Pallotta, that is definitely an important point about the market slowing down, which makes me wary of paying top dollar for any property right now. 

    Some might think it best to wait until the market dips again to buy, or maybe look in other areas... but I am very motivated to get involved, gain more experience, and build additional capital right here in my own backyard so that when it does drop I am even more poised to act. 

    It will be very important to invest in the right area and product where demand and market rent will remain high even through a downturn I suppose.

  • Investor · boxford, MA · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    Oh also can anyone recommend good local mortgage brokers or lenders for renovation loans such as the Fannie Mae Homestyle loan or similar products?

    I have a great local lender that will do conventional loans (20-25% down for homes in good condition) and commercial loans (which I don't have the background to qualify for yet), but doesn't really address that gray in-between area for properties needing renovation.

  • Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    To answer your question about larger developers doing condo conversions, they fund them in one of 4 ways:

    1.  Their own cash, if they've been doing it for a while

    2.  Hard money:  borrowing part of the purchase price and all of the renovation funds is common when borrowing hard money.  If hard money is new to you, there are tons of threads on BP about it, and my website has lots of information pages on it to gain a beginning understanding

    3.  Private lenders:  such as friends, family and other people they have made connections with.  Sometimes these funds are used as the down payment money for a hard money loan

    4.  When they get experienced enough with a track record they can sometimes get bank financing

    In my opinion, a condo conversion is not a good first renovation project.  There are lots of unknowns and many moving parts on a rehab project, and adding the whole condo conversion piece to it can launch the complexity into the stratosphere.  And you have 2 or more of everything:  heating systems, electrical boxes, kitchens, etc

  • Investor · boxford, MA · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    Thank you weighing in @Ann Bellamy I just listened to your BP podcast on hard money and it was very encouraging and enlightening. I definitely appreciate the point that it may be too big a project to bite off for a first rehab. Maybe that property will go to foreclosure and be available in a year or so when I'm more seasoned ;) 

    I had somewhat of an "Ah ha" moment after realizing that I can possibly pursue two paths that are not mutually exclusive for the use of the capital I want to invest:   conventional loans for buy and hold investing, and at the same time utilize hard money lending to rehab distressed properties. 

    This will help us achieve our goals faster in the we can build both long term security and wealth and do more short term transactional work to help me transition from my day job down the road and become a developer. Thanks!

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