The thing that suprised me about my 1st BRRRR,it actually worked!

The thing that suprised me about my 1st BRRRR,it actually worked!

Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes

I just completed my first BRRRR project, getting the long term financing in place this week. Details of the project are below:

Properties: 2 duplexes, side by side in Tacoma, WA
Acquisition Date:  3/31/17
Acquisition price: $340,000
Rehab costs: $85,000
Appraised Value: $640,000

Original Financed Amount 1st lender: $315,000
Original Financed Amount 2nd position lender: $110,000

Cash-out refi amount @ new appraised valuation: $456,000

The rehab work on the project was completed at the beginning of August, but the refinancing proved to be the most challenging part of this project, and wasn't completed until now (early December)!

Here were some of the challenges that I ran into:

  • Lender said they could originally do a conventional 30-year @ a 75% LTV. I have a W2 job, but also own a business which had significant losses in 2014, 2015 which offset a lot of my income. After going to underwriting, they said they couldn't lend based on my numbers, and would need to wait until I filed my 2016 return (I had filed an extension). 2016 return came back mid-october. They said numbers were good enough.
  • After going through underwriting, I'm told title will need to be in my personal name (currently title was in LLC name). I was expecting this though, but not expecting to get a call a few days later saying that Fannie/Freddie rules say title must be in my personal name for AT LEAST 6 months prior. So after all that, conventional lending was out.
  • Called a dozen different asset based lenders getting quotes.  What I learned about asset based lenders.
    • Great if you don't have W2 income or don't want or can't get a conventional loan, and just use the income of the property to qualify.
    • Rates will be at least 1.5% higher than conventional
    • There will be prepayment penalties within the first 3-5 years.
    • Origination fees will be higher than a bank or credit union.
    • Some could lend as high as 80% LTV.
  • Called about 10 community banks and credit unions in the area, and found a few that were interested in lending on the project.  What I learned was:
    • More flexible than conventional lenders.
    • Rates were higher than conventional, but lower than asset based lenders.
    • Origination fees were inline with conventional lenders.
    • LTV ratios were anywhere from 65%-75%
    • Title can be held by an LLC

I ended up going with a credit union due to the lower rates, origination costs and no prepayment penalties.  I was able to get all my capital back (and then a bit more), and the property still cashflows at about $800/month (Pics Below)

And now am looking for my next project.  

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Accountant · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2017 · 409 posts · 362 votes
8y

I don't know if it would be in anyone else's book, but for me I'd consider that deal a homerun! May have been an "Inside the ballpark" homer because it took a little more work, but damn those numbers are great. Congratulations man. 

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  • Real Estate Investor · Macedon, NY · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 290 votes
    8y

    Congratulations!  Great job.  How did you find the property?

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y

    Thanks @Paul Bowers!  I've been networking through as many wholesalers in the area as possible and this came through one of their distribution lists.

  • Real Estate Investor · Macedon, NY · Member since 2016 · 251 posts · 290 votes
    8y

    @Rob Terpilowski, do you mind going into a little more detail on the original funding on the deal?  It looks like you managed to secure 100% financing for both the purchase and rehab amounts.

  • Midland, TX · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    Looks like a great deal! Beautiful remodeled units as well! 

    I've been thinking about BRRRR'ing my first property as well and you addressed some of my fears and concerns I had, namely re-financing. It's interesting learning about some of the issues regarding LLC's. Did the community banks/credit unions not use Fannie/Freddie backed mortgages? How did their rules allow you to hold the property in an LLC? I'm interested because I want to eventually have my properties in an LLC and this is an issue I did not know about.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing and letting a newbie like me learn from some of the issues and experiences you had!

  • Columbia, SC · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    Congratulations man, beautiful place!

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y

    @Paul Bowers, just updated the post with a clarification.  

    1st position was hard money lender, funding portion of the initial purchase price and 100% of the rehab costs.

    2nd loan was a HELOC on primary residence, reserved for this project.

  • Investor · Germantown, WI · Member since 2012 · 206 posts · 364 votes
    8y

    @Rob Terpilowski

    Congratulations on a successful BRRRR! The rehab looks great and you scored a boat load of equity on the deal.

    Thanks for taking the time to share.

  • Accountant · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2017 · 409 posts · 362 votes
    8y

    I don't know if it would be in anyone else's book, but for me I'd consider that deal a homerun! May have been an "Inside the ballpark" homer because it took a little more work, but damn those numbers are great. Congratulations man. 

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 17 votes
    8y

    @Rob Terpilowski WOW —— gorgeous transformation, doesn’t even look like the same place! We own a tri-plex in South Tacoma that we are currently rehabbing in hopes of doing the same thing you did. We will have put approx. $30,000 into the rehab (because we are do-it-yourselfers so it’s kept our cost low). We bought for $350,000 for a 5 bedroom (yes 5) unit, a 1 bedroom unit, and and a 2 bedroom unit. You are giving me hope for the appraisal! 

    How many bedrooms are in your units? What part of Tacoma are you located in? 

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Eric Fernandes:

    Looks like a great deal! Beautiful remodeled units as well! 

    I've been thinking about BRRRR'ing my first property as well and you addressed some of my fears and concerns I had, namely re-financing. It's interesting learning about some of the issues regarding LLC's. Did the community banks/credit unions not use Fannie/Freddie backed mortgages? How did their rules allow you to hold the property in an LLC? I'm interested because I want to eventually have my properties in an LLC and this is an issue I did not know about.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing and letting a newbie like me learn from some of the issues and experiences you had!

    Right, the community banks keep these loans in their own portfolio and so can be quite a bit more flexible with their own rules than the Fannie/Freddie guidelines dictate.   

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Donald S.:

    I don't know if it would be in anyone else's book, but for me I'd consider that deal a homerun! May have been an "Inside the ballpark" homer because it took a little more work, but damn those numbers are great. Congratulations man. 

    Thanks! when I initially ran my numbers, I had assumed an ARV of $540k and rents of $1,100 per month, so was very happy to see the appraisal come back where it did a couple of weeks ago. Also the units ended up renting for $1,300.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Erin Caldwell:

    @Rob Terpilowski WOW —— gorgeous transformation, doesn’t even look like the same place! We own a tri-plex in South Tacoma that we are currently rehabbing in hopes of doing the same thing you did. We will have put approx. $30,000 into the rehab (because we are do-it-yourselfers so it’s kept our cost low). We bought for $350,000 for a 5 bedroom (yes 5) unit, a 1 bedroom unit, and and a 2 bedroom unit. You are giving me hope for the appraisal! 

    How many bedrooms are in your units? What part of Tacoma are you located in? 

     Thanks Erin,  the units are all 2BR/1BA, a couple of miles west of the Tacoma mall.  Good luck with your project!

  • Los Angeles, CA - California · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 17 votes
    8y

    Nice work! Do you manage the properties yourself?

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 16 votes
    8y

    @Rob Terpilowski - Wow, congratulations and nice work!

    What did the workflow look like on this deal? You got the listing from an off-market source, then what?

    • Had you already been in touch with the HML in the area prior to finding this deal?
    • Did you run the numbers, find out what your highest offer is, then present your findings to the HML before submitting your offer?
    • At what stage did you walk through the property?

    I'm very interested in the BRRRR strategy. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the order of operations for all the moving parts.

  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    8y

    Great job, looks awesome.

    I always caution people to understand all the ins and out of financing if they are planning on doing a cash out after HML. People don't realize it is the same process and criteria if you already own it or are buying it new. Looks like you found a solution but many people get stuck

  • Rental Property Investor · NY · Member since 2013 · 844 posts · 350 votes
    8y

    @Rob Terpilowski Can you break out the cost of the kitchen for us?

    Cabinets $?

    Labor For Cabinet install?

    Countertop Cost?

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Minh Nguyen:

    Nice work! Do you manage the properties yourself?

     I feel like I am as there have been a number of issues that property manager has dropped that I've had to pick up, so needless to say I'm in the market for another manager.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 108 posts · 43 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Rob Terpilowski - Wow, congratulations and nice work!

    What did the workflow look like on this deal? You got the listing from an off-market source, then what?

    • Had you already been in touch with the HML in the area prior to finding this deal?
    • Did you run the numbers, find out what your highest offer is, then present your findings to the HML before submitting your offer?
    • At what stage did you walk through the property?

    I'm very interested in the BRRRR strategy. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the order of operations for all the moving parts.

    Thanks Jacob,

    I've worked with this particular HML on a few flips that I had done, and they have been pretty responsive when I've sent them a potential deal to evaluate.

    I received the message from the wholesaler with the property details and with his ask price of $350k. I had been looking for multifamily so i immediately called and let him know that my GC would be calling him shortly to schedule a walkthrough with him. I also gave my broker a call to get an idea of ARV based on recent comps as well as market rents in the area.

    GC called back later in the day with a estimate of the rehab, broker called back that evening with comps. I gave the wholesaler a call the next morning and offered $340k, he accepted. (Found out at closing the wholesaler got these under contract for $300k!) Then gave the HML call with the property details and numbers which they were good with, and closed in about 10 days.

    Total time from receiving the message from the wholesaler until getting it locked down was about 18 hours.  I didn't walk the property myself (I trust my GC a lot)

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    @Rob Terpilowski 

    Awesome job! Very inspiring, I'm looking to do some thing very similar in the tacoma area. So seeing some one else already doing it makes me want to get into the market all the sooner! 

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