Philadelphia investment property advice

Philadelphia investment property advice

Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 16 votes

Hello,

I have an opportunity to make an investment purchase in an A neighborhood in Philadelphia. Zip code is 19127. I would like to get some input from experienced investors in the Philly area. Thank you. 

Description: This is a 2,300 sq ft duplex featuring 1 bi level unit that is rented for $1,400 and another unit with a projected rent of $1,300 (but I would occupy this unit). The building is a new renovation from 1 year ago and features brand new everything including hvac, plumbing, electric, roof, kitchens, baths....everything except the foundation is new.

Purchase price: $315,000 using FHA 3.5% down payment. Total PITI is about $2,150, including PMI.

My thinking is this: I can acquire a very nice building in a great neighborhood right now for a low down payment. To start the cash flow would be low, but eventually when I re-fi I should be able to cash flow $1,000/month. 

Here is where I would like some advice from experienced investors in Philly...Is it worth paying a little more for the new renovation? The alternative is to get an older property and pay less and get more cash flow right off the bat. But it would need updating eventually. Also, renovation is not my strong suit.

Thank you in advance. If you need more information about the property just ask and I'll respond. 

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Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 177 posts · 64 votes
8y

House hacking is a great way to start your investing journey and Manayunk can be a great place to own property as long as you are not over paying. Living in Manayunk with more than half your mortgage being covered by the tenant is great but if you are truly looking at this as something you will eventually move out from and keep as an investment I would take a closer took at your numbers and assumptions. Your total gross rent is $2700 and your PITI is $2150. Unless you are buying at a huge discount that you expect to refi in 6 months and lose PMI you aren't going to get rid of it for a while so keep it in your calculation.

Even if you get rid of PMI, let's say $300, your PITI will be 1850 (assuming the interest rate doesn't go up) which gives you a $900 surplus on the income side. Nowhere here have you calculated maintenance for the property, potential vacancies, the cost to turn over a unit (painting, flooring, appliances, etc.), or any of the many costs of owning a rental. An investment might not have a major bill for several months or a year but when it finally does it might wipe any profit you might have thought you had. Just make sure you are analyzing this with realistic numbers if you are thinking investment. Newly rehab properties aren't immune to maintenance.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 167 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    @Joe S. - I think Manayunk (19127) is a great location to purchase in...as you probably know they have many solid Duplexes and Triplexes that can consistently yield quality rent. 

    Ultimately when it comes to your question, it all varies on your comfort level. For myself as an investor, when I buy my Buy&Hold properties I prefer to have them be turn-key ready and needing very little work. I probably pay a premium for this, however, I know that I will be able to get rent right away with no dead months. 

    I'm a real estate agent in the area - if you have any questions or concerns, let me know how I can be of assistance. 

    Best of Luck!

    Zach Paul 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Riverdale, NY · Member since 2017 · 112 posts · 27 votes
    8y
    I am an investor in Philly and it really depends on your comfort level and if you have money reserved for the dead months when you won’t make any cash flow. If you have income to sustain your lifestyle while you get the units ready than get something for a lower price that may need some work or major work if it means great cash flow. I personally just rented a property that was a complete gut job but I acquired the SFH property for $50k put $35k into it and ARV is now $140k so I got my investment plus some after refi and it will cash flow $800 a month. So it really all depends on your comfort level. As long as you have decent contractors with fair prices you can turn any property over in 2-3 months. As I said this house was a complete gut job, we changed the layout of the house tremendously and we were able to get the house rented 3 months after we bought it. When doing your numbers add the dead months into the equation. Good luck!
  • Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 16 votes
    8y

    thanks for the input!

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 51 posts · 36 votes
    8y

    Hi @Joe S.

    You're looking in my neck of the woods. I could not recommend house hacking enough if your budget and lifestyle work for it. It's an amazing way to get started (especially with owner-occupied, residential loans). There are a number of factors to consider, so I can't give concrete advice, but if you already have a tenant and feel you can live at below-market rent yourself (and the numbers work if you end up moving out), it could be a good fit. If the rehab construction quality is good, I would recommend a turn key property like this for a new investor, especially if you aren't interested in doing work yourself.

    Do you already live in the area? I'd be happy to take a look at the property specifics if would like to share. Manayunk/Roxborough values can vary block to block.

    Hope you find the right deal. I would have done the house-hacking thing if I didn't already have kids.

  • Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 16 votes
    8y

    Hi @Peter Dunne, thanks for the reply. I already own a single family in the same neighborhood that I currently rent out by the room. Also, I have an update on the duplex... The seller and I have come to an agreement. I'm making the purchase without a realtor which I have never done before, so if you have a checklist for that, I would appreciate it. But for now, I'm taking the purchase agreement to my attorney for review. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 51 posts · 36 votes
    8y

    Hi @Joe S. - Sounds good. Your risk can definitely go down by investing very locally. Congrats on putting together an off-market deal. Hopefully, some of the commission $ the seller is saving is resulting in a lower price to you. Your attorney and the title company should be your primary resources to get you through the process.

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 177 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    House hacking is a great way to start your investing journey and Manayunk can be a great place to own property as long as you are not over paying. Living in Manayunk with more than half your mortgage being covered by the tenant is great but if you are truly looking at this as something you will eventually move out from and keep as an investment I would take a closer took at your numbers and assumptions. Your total gross rent is $2700 and your PITI is $2150. Unless you are buying at a huge discount that you expect to refi in 6 months and lose PMI you aren't going to get rid of it for a while so keep it in your calculation.

    Even if you get rid of PMI, let's say $300, your PITI will be 1850 (assuming the interest rate doesn't go up) which gives you a $900 surplus on the income side. Nowhere here have you calculated maintenance for the property, potential vacancies, the cost to turn over a unit (painting, flooring, appliances, etc.), or any of the many costs of owning a rental. An investment might not have a major bill for several months or a year but when it finally does it might wipe any profit you might have thought you had. Just make sure you are analyzing this with realistic numbers if you are thinking investment. Newly rehab properties aren't immune to maintenance.

  • Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 16 votes
    8y

    Thank you @Igor Messano. No, I am not buying at a huge discount. You can't really get a discount in this market if your buying turn key. However, according to my calculations, after refi I could expect a payment in the 1600-1700 range. Of course I would have to bring the cash to bring my equity up to 25%. So after I refi I can cash flow about 1k per month off this building...more if I can raise the rents. That being said, I get where you are coming from with the expenses. But I've been looking in this market for a while and this is one of the best deals I have found. 

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y

    @Joe S.

    Stop thinking and start doing.

    Why are you so worried about refinancing?  That shouldn’t even be in your thought process right now

  • Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 16 votes
    8y

    Hi @Chris Purcell! I guess you missed the part where I said I have the property under contract. Does that count as doing? :) 

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Joe S.:

    Hi @Chris Purcell! I guess you missed the part where I said I have the property under contract. Does that count as doing? :) 

    I didn’t read the whole thread but good work!!

    Hoping for a smooth closing for you (if they exist)

  • Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 16 votes
    8y

    @Chris Purcell hey thanks. We already encountered 1 issue and it's only been under contract less than 24 hours lol. Hopefully goes smooth from here. 

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