Thoughts on the Irvington neighborhood in Indy??
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 31 posts · 16 votes
Hello all. still fairly new to the bp community. Still learning what I can.
Wanted to know your thoughts on the historic Irvington neighborhood in Indianapolis? Is it on its way up? Will it flatline or decline? I love the feel of the area but wanted to here some wisdom from you all!
Thanks all!
Lamont G
@Lamont Glover II Irvington is a very established historic neighborhood that always has up's and down's. It will never be Fountain Square or Broad Ripple, but it is a very unique and eclectic area. Irvington tends to always have strong home sales for both retail and investment properties. I think it's a pretty predictable market, but we don't see too many areas in Indianapolis with wild swings each year.
The biggest problem that I see in Irvington is the limitations you have on style and materials you can use to renovate homes. The historic society has to approve the work so it's better off to understand that from the beginning. They will not want you to update to vinyl windows and you will likely have to keep most of the exterior materials the same which means more frequent painting and exterior upkeep than other types of homes. It keeps the area feeling like Irvington, but the limitations and extra costs that come with those homes should be figured in as well.
A great area with less limitations is Emerson Heights which is just across the Emerson Ave. Little Flower is interesting, but the entire area around Sherman Dr is deteriorating and starting to cause issues in and around the Little Flower area. I also like the Pleasant Run and Christian Park areas as well. Very similar feel, but most of the homes are smaller whereas Irvington has a lot of intermittent, large, pre-1920 style homes.
@Lamont Glover II Irvington is a very established historic neighborhood that always has up's and down's. It will never be Fountain Square or Broad Ripple, but it is a very unique and eclectic area. Irvington tends to always have strong home sales for both retail and investment properties. I think it's a pretty predictable market, but we don't see too many areas in Indianapolis with wild swings each year.
The biggest problem that I see in Irvington is the limitations you have on style and materials you can use to renovate homes. The historic society has to approve the work so it's better off to understand that from the beginning. They will not want you to update to vinyl windows and you will likely have to keep most of the exterior materials the same which means more frequent painting and exterior upkeep than other types of homes. It keeps the area feeling like Irvington, but the limitations and extra costs that come with those homes should be figured in as well.
A great area with less limitations is Emerson Heights which is just across the Emerson Ave. Little Flower is interesting, but the entire area around Sherman Dr is deteriorating and starting to cause issues in and around the Little Flower area. I also like the Pleasant Run and Christian Park areas as well. Very similar feel, but most of the homes are smaller whereas Irvington has a lot of intermittent, large, pre-1920 style homes.
@Ross Denman Thanks for the insight! A little disheartening to hear that Irvington does not have the potential to be in the same conversation as BR or FS. Having second thoughts on that area, I thought it had a chance for growth for sure.
How does rent look in that area? Lets say one side of a 2-3 bedroom duplex in fair condition? Im looking just north of washington st. on Ritter, Whittier, Irvington Ave.... what would rent run around there?
Again, thanks for the insight. It is invaluable.
@Lamont Glover II I'd be interested to live in the Irvington area, but I'm on the fence about investing there. It's definitely a step above the surrounding areas but not nearly as attractive as Brip or butler. It depends on what your strategy is but the good thing about our city is there are quite a few neighborhoods on the upswing. So you do have other options.
Have you looked at current rentals that are on the market? Look at zillow, Clist, FB and other millennial rental sites. Comp out what you're seeing vs the purchase price and decide if that's attractive to you.
@Mihir Bhimaraju is right. Learning how to gauge rental comps is very helpful. Irvington's rent ranges can vary greatly because of the different sizes of homes and the different trims of the interior. There are still many homes in Irvington that still have radiant heat from a boiler in the basement. Even though it's interesting and nostalgic, it may not demand the same rent as the fully upgraded and equipped one next door. You can find 2 bedrooms that range from $600-$700/mo or 2 bedrooms that range at $800-$900/mo. I'm not sure that you can find the monster $1,200/mo bungalows there though and I don't think you will for a long time. I've seen 3 bedroom multi units rent from $700-$800 and 3 bedrooms that rent at $1,200+/side. I've seen the huge homes in Irvington rent at $1,500/mo as well, but it's always roommate complications and other troubles in those types of homes.
Irvington is fun and safe to invest in, but it will not likely bring the fast rewards like the Brookside park area will over the next couple of years, but those 2 years are going to suck. Bad tenants, tons of maintenance and service requests, etc. The home doesn't have the value to validate putting the $80-$100k rehab to get it there, so you do a moderate rehab and wait for the value to grow. I'm not a fan of that model, but there are a lot of people who are really building wealth that way. I prefer predictability above all things. Good location, good home, good property management, good tenants... It's easy after that.
@Ross Denman thanks for that insight. Would love to get your property management info.
Send me a PM with your info!
@Mihir Bhimaraju what are your thoughts on house hacking there? Live on one side rent out the other?So it’d be living & investing (somewhat). Thanks for all of the insight
Irvington is fairly well established as a neighborhood and the pricing reflects that. First, it is quite hard to find a house in need of rehab that is priced below market. Most sellers are aware of what rehabbed homes in Irvington go for and as such the sale price reflects that. Second, Irviington as a neighborhood is quite nice and as I said settled. As such the neighborhood itself does not have a ton of (quick) equity to be gained from a househack. By that, I mean the cost to buy a home in Irvington, and the cost to hack it (even if you are doing most of the work and are handy) and bring it up to Irvington standards is high such that there isn't very much in leftover equity to pocket. Now if you intended to stay there closer to 5-7 years then you can slowly build that equity, however, if you are looking more like 2-3 years and try to make a decent margin that's going to be hard to do. That's my two cents.
I think you may want to look at neighborhoods which aren't fully settled yet. Brandon Turner - the guy who runs this website and has written a good book on real estate investing - says that when he walks into a home that smells bad he thinks to himself "smells like money." It is quite hard, in my estimation, to find a lot of those types of homes in Irvington. You may have better luck in neighborhoods that are still "transitioning" such as Garfield Park, St. Clair Place, Mapleton-Fall Creek. In short, places that aren't Fountain Square, Fletcher Place, Broad Ripple or Old Northside, but will get there in 5 years.
Keep the questions coming, always happy to share what I know and self-educate from other passionate investors on this forum.
@Lamont Glover II it depends on where in Irvington it is and whether it is truly considered Irvington at all. People have a tenancy to stretch boundaries just like they do with Fountain Square, Irvington can vary a lot. You can have expensive, historic homes on one block and not so great ones a few blocks away. My question is what draws you to Irvington? As @Ross Denman has pointed out, if you are truly in the historic district, you will have a lot of restrictions on what you can and can't do and need to get permitting.
@Lamont Glover II it depends on where in Irvington it is and whether it is truly considered Irvington at all. People have a tenancy to stretch boundaries just like they do with Fountain Square, Irvington can vary a lot. You can have expensive, historic homes on one block and not so great ones a few blocks away. My question is what draws you to Irvington? As @Ross Denman has pointed out, if you are truly in the historic district, you will have a lot of restrictions on what you can and can't do and need to get permitting.
I think I like it because it seems like a great area.... safe for the most part, walkable... a few cool shops/restaurants on washington. and a more affordable alternative than FS or Broadripple. I think area is a little more important to us (my wife. lol) since we are living on one side.
The area we are looking at is north of washington, near Ritter/Irvington ave. so it’s pretty close to the heart of things. The good news is, the home that we are looking is not bound to the ‘historic society’ stipulations, which is good news. That’s was something that concerned me and I appreciate this community for bringing it up.
I feel like we’re in a pretty solid situation, but always weary because that’s sort of my personality. Haha thanks for the comment and great insight, mike. I appreciate it!
@Lamont Glover II I didn't realize you were going to live in one unit. That makes sense then. Glad to hear that it's not subject to the historic district restrictions.