Investing in Europe- Greece and Romania
Member since 2019 · 10 posts · 1 vote
Hello everyone, I am now here so I am trying to learn as much as I can :)
Me and my husband we want to invest in some properties in Greece and Romania. I was wondering if anyone has any experience in real estate market in these countries.
Thank you.
Hey there.
Romania has a great outlook. Here are the markets I was exposed to :
1)Bucharest is one of the fastest growing cities in Europe. It also has a buying power adjusted GDP/capita that rivals western european capitals. Combine this with an awful infrastructure and you get a market that is mispriced and full of opportunities. A drawback would be the seismic risk. You should get insurance if you are serious about putting capital to work here. Reading up on different neighborhoods and their seismic profile should help, but be prepared to pay a premium.
2)Cluj-Napoca is a student hub. A quarter of its 400k inhabitants are students. Parents are willing to pay up to get students living comfortably, considering that the dorms are generally horrible. There rent in Cluj is the highest in Romania.
3)Oradea is a european non-refundable money sink. This year Oradea gobbled up something in the range of 40 % of all the funds given to Romania. The city is developing really fast as a small tourist town. Prices have not yet caught up to places like Cluj, mainly because of the lower number of students not pushing the price up. Recently however, investments in industrial parks have opened up thousands of jobs that attract people from the neighboring counties and prices are growing by the month. The rhythm of growth is only expected to go up, as the mayor responsible for putting the city on the map once again has an extremely long term focus on developing infrastructure and attracting companies that create jobs.
Hope this helped !
Alon
Well, for Greece was a good opportunity to invest a few years ago, maybe until last year. Now, due to the golden visa programme, there are many Chinese and Arabs buying like crazy, which drove the prices up. Still affordable, but more expensive than Romania.
I don't know but for example, In Bucharest, an apartment is 100-130 K, meanwhile in Athens can easily reach 150-200 K.
Hey there.
Romania has a great outlook. Here are the markets I was exposed to :
1)Bucharest is one of the fastest growing cities in Europe. It also has a buying power adjusted GDP/capita that rivals western european capitals. Combine this with an awful infrastructure and you get a market that is mispriced and full of opportunities. A drawback would be the seismic risk. You should get insurance if you are serious about putting capital to work here. Reading up on different neighborhoods and their seismic profile should help, but be prepared to pay a premium.
2)Cluj-Napoca is a student hub. A quarter of its 400k inhabitants are students. Parents are willing to pay up to get students living comfortably, considering that the dorms are generally horrible. There rent in Cluj is the highest in Romania.
3)Oradea is a european non-refundable money sink. This year Oradea gobbled up something in the range of 40 % of all the funds given to Romania. The city is developing really fast as a small tourist town. Prices have not yet caught up to places like Cluj, mainly because of the lower number of students not pushing the price up. Recently however, investments in industrial parks have opened up thousands of jobs that attract people from the neighboring counties and prices are growing by the month. The rhythm of growth is only expected to go up, as the mayor responsible for putting the city on the map once again has an extremely long term focus on developing infrastructure and attracting companies that create jobs.
Hope this helped !
Alon
I would like to buy something in Bucharest for the moment. I think that buying in other cities requires to be there and take care of the property and with the lack of infrastructure in Romania, this is an issue.
Bucharest is more convenient for expats, or at least I think so. Also, more affordable than other capitals.
Also, has developed nice residential neighborhoods, or at least on pictures look nice: https://new.flatfy.ro/gran-via-park-bucuresti
I intend on going there next month and check some properties. But i first need to find a lawyer and an reliable account :(
I am very curious to hear how your investing in Romania goes, Roxani. I am Romanian, technically an immigrant, but really have more of a first generation experience as I came over with my parents when I was just 2 years old. They are from Cluj and I have thought about the idea of investing in Romania, but I really wouldn't know where to start. @Paul Dumbravanu, if you have any ideas of where I could get some education on the market in Romania, particularly Cluj, I would love to know!
Thank you.
Cluj becomes very popular in Romania, as far as I am reading the news. They are trying to transform the city into a tech hub. Prices are quite high but I think are still normal comparing with other European cities.
Hey Irina,
Here [1] is an in depth report for real estate Market in România. There are 2 reports: romanian and english.
This is the report for Q4 2018 but it has comparisons for Q3 2018 and Q4 2017. It also compares with the RE Market from 10 years ago (right before the crisis).
hi @Irina Costea , i am not specialised in Cluj market. I work for investors and as a buyer myself. Currently working on income properties in areas that are not yet fully transformed and with high yields projections, in Bucharest
@Roxani Adam , I am curious how you chose these markets! I have clients and friends that bought and are still buying in both markets. I am originally from Romania.
The clients that bought in Romania were buying close by to Universities and looking to rent to students. In Greece, I noticed that they are buying mostly villas on the coast for AIRBNBs and vacation rentals.
Good luck to you!
@Roxani Adam
Hello, I will strongly recommend you to invest in Brasov (tourism/students/office) since will be the city with the highest development in the next 2-5 years :
- new international airport will be opened in 2021, which will bring a lot of tourists.
- 4-5 star hotels are going to open: Radisson Blue ( 2021), Hilton, Mercure
- new high way will be developed which will improve the traffic between Bucharest and Brasov ( 5-10 years )
- new Shopping Mall + premium office in the center of the city will open this year, Nov.2020. All Inditex Brands will open the last concept stores.
- financial support from UE for developing the economy for 2021-2027.
I invested this year during the COVID lockdown, and right now, prices are + 10 %
I hope you will make the right decision on your investment.
Good luck!
Salut @Gabriel Daneliuc
I completely agree with you!!
At the moment, I am moment I am educating myself on real estate investing and I want to get into the game hopefully next year. Looking at Brasov, rent/price ratio seems good compared to other major cities in RO. Am I missing anything?
I would be very curious to hear more about the deal you've made, either here or in DM. Please let me know if you'd be willing to tell more about it.
In any case, thank you and good luck to you!
Hey @Norbert Máté, @Gabriel Daneliuc, @Roxani Adam, @Paul Dumbravanu, @Costin Carabas, @Irina Costea
Glad to find likeminded people that are investing in Romania. I'm from Cluj-Napoca
I do own a personal residence (house) but I'm just getting started with investments and stumbled upon you guys while searching for people with more experience to learn from.
For example, there are several differences when it comes to the states, namely:
- for the BRRR strategy, there is no such thing as cash out refinance (you would have to purchase the apartment on a family member, then BRRR, and then "buy" it from him via a normal purchase credit). Has anybody found a different way?
- the only long them 30y fixed cost mortgage that I could find is Habitat from BRD (does anybody know anything else?)
What I'm also deep dive is figuring out the cashflow part. Yes, there are the obvious choices, buy near universities (in Cluj), but the Anual Rent / Purchase Price is closer to 0.5, not 1 and thus the cashflow is at best positive.
How did you make the math work?
I look forward to hearing from you