Simple question. What do you prefer investing in & WHY?
Single Family Houses
Duplexes
Quads
Apartment buildings (10+ units)
50+ unit apartment buildings. Why?
Economies of scale which leads to lower cost per unit for almost everything (maintenance & repairs, capex, property management, etc)
Little income improvements through more efficient management leads to HUGE increase in equity.
You have on-site management and maintenance since the property can afford it - so it becomes more passive (notice I didn't say totally passive because it's not)
Now they are harder to sell - but that also makes them easier to buy specially when you have a motivated seller on the other end. You can do more creative acquisiton techniques (seller carry back financing, deferred maintenance credits, etc) which lead to no money-down opportunities.
Simple question. What do you prefer investing in & WHY?
Single Family Houses
Duplexes
Quads
Apartment buildings (10+ units)
50+ unit apartment buildings. Why?
Economies of scale which leads to lower cost per unit for almost everything (maintenance & repairs, capex, property management, etc)
Little income improvements through more efficient management leads to HUGE increase in equity.
You have on-site management and maintenance since the property can afford it - so it becomes more passive (notice I didn't say totally passive because it's not)
Now they are harder to sell - but that also makes them easier to buy specially when you have a motivated seller on the other end. You can do more creative acquisiton techniques (seller carry back financing, deferred maintenance credits, etc) which lead to no money-down opportunities.
Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 776 posts · 776 votes
7y
I have SFH investments but have worked in construction most of my life. The more units the better. In relation to a renovation/price point of view:
Wholesale pricing and discounts for larger renovations.
Easier to manage personnel in one location than multiple projects. Can be at different stages of rehab on individual units and increase productivity. A delay in one unit doesn't necessarily delay the entire project.
Experienced contractors. Clear barrier to entry for large multi-family. If they have done multiple projects, they are much more reliable when it comes to cost, quality, and schedule.
Developer · Chicago IL · Member since 2019 · 147 posts · 125 votes
7y
James,
From a cost and containment perspective only; apartment buildings are the way to go. One location reduces time, which is money.
From a selling point; I agree with @Michael Ealy. They tend to be more difficult to sell with much lower profit margin at the table. But the opportunity to make money as a landlord far outweighs this. Keep in mind, there is “opportunity” to make money as a landlord, that does not guarantee it will be there. It is hard work and a lot of sleepless nights taking care of tenants and all of the problems associated with a large building.
I do love a two-flat or SFH for fix and flip purposes, in part because I am crazy...LOL I can't help myself, I do love the construction side of things.l But I digress...
Run the long term numbers, as I am sure you already know, and compare the three options side by side.
Real Estate Broker · Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
I like SFRs that's my niche I like the large exit pool at the end. I like owning my properties and having control. Multi-families are great and allow you to scale very quickly but that is not my expertise. My single focus is to dominate my niche.
Apartment buildings (100+ preferred) is what I am interested in. 4 major reasons
1. Scalability of larger properties from a value add point of view enable you to make small improvements for big gains to increase the properties overall value
2. Occupancy!! The more units, the lower the risk for major vacancy. This will depend on your break even points and stress testing of the property but a basic example below.
(Eg 1 unit can only be 100% occupied or vacant. 50 units at 50% vacancy is still 25 units producing income. 200 units at 50% vacant is still 100 units producing revenue)
3.You have the ability to utilize OPM to acquire property and still make a healthy profit for you and your investors
4. The larger the property, the better ability you have to utilize professional property management with having to worry so much about that expense affecting your return
Simple question. What do you prefer investing in & WHY?
Single Family Houses
Duplexes
Quads
Apartment buildings (10+ units)
50+ unit apartment buildings. Why?
Economies of scale which leads to lower cost per unit for almost everything (maintenance & repairs, capex, property management, etc)
Little income improvements through more efficient management leads to HUGE increase in equity.
You have on-site management and maintenance since the property can afford it - so it becomes more passive (notice I didn't say totally passive because it's not)
Now they are harder to sell - but that also makes them easier to buy specially when you have a motivated seller on the other end. You can do more creative acquisiton techniques (seller carry back financing, deferred maintenance credits, etc) which lead to no money-down opportunities.
Big dawg deals......I like it. I agree with the creativity that the big deals offer. My most creatively financed deals have been my larger ones. Most recently a 43 unit.
How many big buildings do you have in the portfolio?
I have SFH investments but have worked in construction most of my life. The more units the better. In relation to a renovation/price point of view:
Wholesale pricing and discounts for larger renovations.
Easier to manage personnel in one location than multiple projects. Can be at different stages of rehab on individual units and increase productivity. A delay in one unit doesn't necessarily delay the entire project.
Experienced contractors. Clear barrier to entry for large multi-family. If they have done multiple projects, they are much more reliable when it comes to cost, quality, and schedule.
Dude great point on the barrier to entry for the contractors. The construction field is such a brutal field. Most new investors are totally blind sided by how hard it is to get sober contractors to working in their small rental homes & things of that nature. Solid input man. Keep it coming!
From a cost and containment perspective only; apartment buildings are the way to go. One location reduces time, which is money.
From a selling point; I agree with @Michael Ealy. They tend to be more difficult to sell with much lower profit margin at the table. But the opportunity to make money as a landlord far outweighs this. Keep in mind, there is “opportunity” to make money as a landlord, that does not guarantee it will be there. It is hard work and a lot of sleepless nights taking care of tenants and all of the problems associated with a large building.
I do love a two-flat or SFH for fix and flip purposes, in part because I am crazy...LOL I can't help myself, I do love the construction side of things.l But I digress...
Run the long term numbers, as I am sure you already know, and compare the three options side by side.
Good Luck!
Sue Hough
Another vote for the big dawg deals....How many of the these large buildings do you have in your portfolio?
I like SFRs that's my niche I like the large exit pool at the end. I like owning my properties and having control. Multi-families are great and allow you to scale very quickly but that is not my expertise. My single focus is to dominate my niche.
Nothing wrong with that man. I really appreciate a streamlined & efficient business. Efficiency in a niche is something I really admire & have spent years & millions perfecting in my space.
Apartment buildings (100+ preferred) is what I am interested in. 4 major reasons
1. Scalability of larger properties from a value add point of view enable you to make small improvements for big gains to increase the properties overall value
2. Occupancy!! The more units, the lower the risk for major vacancy. This will depend on your break even points and stress testing of the property but a basic example below.
(Eg 1 unit can only be 100% occupied or vacant. 50 units at 50% vacancy is still 25 units producing income. 200 units at 50% vacant is still 100 units producing revenue)
3.You have the ability to utilize OPM to acquire property and still make a healthy profit for you and your investors
4. The larger the property, the better ability you have to utilize professional property management with having to worry so much about that expense affecting your return
Have you pulled down any of these yet or are you still looking to take down your 1st deal?
Apartment buildings (100+ preferred) is what I am interested in. 4 major reasons
1. Scalability of larger properties from a value add point of view enable you to make small improvements for big gains to increase the properties overall value
2. Occupancy!! The more units, the lower the risk for major vacancy. This will depend on your break even points and stress testing of the property but a basic example below.
(Eg 1 unit can only be 100% occupied or vacant. 50 units at 50% vacancy is still 25 units producing income. 200 units at 50% vacant is still 100 units producing revenue)
3.You have the ability to utilize OPM to acquire property and still make a healthy profit for you and your investors
4. The larger the property, the better ability you have to utilize professional property management with having to worry so much about that expense affecting your return
Have you pulled down any of these yet or are you still looking to take down your 1st deal?
Currently assisting a group out of Texas to tick the first one off the list!
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
i will buy as many doors as I can get . I will not buy a single family house . Just not part of my strategy. I’m not into paying 100% of everything when Johnny tenant moves out and I’m not into losing a years worth of profit when a furnace or roof craps the bed .
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 530 posts · 398 votes
7y
@James Wise i love the 2-4 Unit space. Buy right you can generate quite a bit of cash for a beginner with a door or two to hedge against an oops. Great financing for owner occupied methods.
I admire and aim to get into the larger multi-family for scale, management quality, and larger return purposes.
Some say larger multi-family are even easier to manage. What is it, you tend to see additional in-house after 50 units?
Rental Property Investor · Wilmington, DE · Member since 2018 · 36 posts · 23 votes
7y
My answer at this point in time is single family homes.
1. Easy entry IMO
2. More supply in the market.
3. Having the choice on managing the properties myself or having the option of hiring out.
As time goes by my goal is to get into large multi family but everybodies answer will be different based on where they are in their lives. Good question and best of luck!
Apartment buildings (100+ preferred) is what I am interested in. 4 major reasons
1. Scalability of larger properties from a value add point of view enable you to make small improvements for big gains to increase the properties overall value
2. Occupancy!! The more units, the lower the risk for major vacancy. This will depend on your break even points and stress testing of the property but a basic example below.
(Eg 1 unit can only be 100% occupied or vacant. 50 units at 50% vacancy is still 25 units producing income. 200 units at 50% vacant is still 100 units producing revenue)
3.You have the ability to utilize OPM to acquire property and still make a healthy profit for you and your investors
4. The larger the property, the better ability you have to utilize professional property management with having to worry so much about that expense affecting your return
Have you pulled down any of these yet or are you still looking to take down your 1st deal?
Currently assisting a group out of Texas to tick the first one off the list!
I'd like to circle back to you on this in a year or two. A big negative to the large properties is how infrequently you have the opportunity to buy them.
It'll be interesting to see if your perspective changes or stays the same over the next couple years because you ran into this common roadblock. Or if you skate past this roadblock & you've built up a massive portfolio.
Rental Property Investor · CA · Member since 2018 · 225 posts · 180 votes
7y
@James Wise I would like to do 2-4 units to gain more experience, I have a SFH that I rent out, and I think my experience level and contact list isn't ready for a project larger than that.
i will buy as many doors as I can get . I will not buy a single family house . Just not part of my strategy. I’m not into paying 100% of everything when Johnny tenant moves out and I’m not into losing a years worth of profit when a furnace or roof craps the bed .
@James Wise i love the 2-4 Unit space. Buy right you can generate quite a bit of cash for a beginner with a door or two to hedge against an oops. Great financing for owner occupied methods.
I admire and aim to get into the larger multi-family for scale, management quality, and larger return purposes.
Some say larger multi-family are even easier to manage. What is it, you tend to see additional in-house after 50 units?
The financing on the 1-4 unit space is unbeatable. Then again so are the economies of scale you'll see with the large buildings.
Contractor · Old Orchard Beach, ME · Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 3 votes
7y
@James Wise I'm working on structuring my first 10+ unit now.
More money in one place less risk if something goes in the building there is money coming in to cover it like boiler or roof.
Great cash flow potential I can get to my financial freedom goals fast with the same amount of effort over a period if time.
No huge loss of capital gains tax like there is with doing flips. Easier to leverage when your looking to scale up.
You can sometimes purchase them at the same price if a single family home but most likely will need a bunch of work but once done huge equity and cash flow.