Tired of getting calls from wholesalers and flippers

Buying & Selling Real Estate
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Tired of getting calls from wholesalers and flippers

Alan Grobmeier
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes

I average 2 calls a week where someone calls me up and wants to buy one of my rental properties.  I have heard the speeches so often I KNOW what they are gonna say next.  Usually it starts out with, "we have bought a property in the neighborhood and are looking to buy another.  Would you be interested in selling?"

So, I have taken to going into 'full idiot mode' when I receive these calls.  My first question is:  Where be that other house you just bought?  I wanna know the address since I know the neighborhood well.  We get past that part and they ask about renovations I've done over the last 5 years.  I give them a brief list, in my redneck/idiot voice.

And THEN we get down to the 'tricky' part:  How much do I want?  I can, literally, waste 5 minutes of this person's time on this question.  I point out the fact that whoever points out the price first loses.

I'm usually met with a pathetically low-ball offer, to which I respond, "you make me laugh, ha ha".

So, I waste a couple more minutes while we discuss price.  I ask them if they will be giving me cash, since that is what I want.

Then I inform them that all offers have to go thru my attorney since the accident where I hit my head too hard.  ;-)  That USUALLY ends the conversation shortly thereafter.  LOL.

My question is:  How do I get off these lists?  It really sucks.  Sometimes it is fun to amuse myself at these ppl's expense. I figure if I am wasting their time, they have less time to call someone else.  :-(

AG

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Scott SmithPro Member
Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 932 votes
7y

I would suggest the anonymous land trust. The power of anonymous land trusts is that these Anonymous Trusts can own the LLC itself as well as serve as Title Holding Trusts for the real estate asset. Yes, The LLC typically must disclose the members of the LLC on the filing instruments called the Articles of Incorporation. However, the member listed on the filing can be an Anonymous Trust. It does not have to be your name. Since the Anonymous Trust is a private document and it is not filed with the State, anybody researching the Owner or Beneficiary of the Trust will be unable to find that information in the public records. Additionally, anyone researching the owner of the real estate asset by searching the County Clerk records will only find the name of the Anonymous Land Trust. Since the Owner of Trust and the beneficiary is not registered with the state, they cannot find out that the Series LLC is the beneficiary of that Trust. If they wanted to fight this in court it would take again substantial amount of more time, billable ours, labor, manpower and money.

Anonymity and privacy are just parts of asset protection. You ideally want to find an experience real estate attorney who can help you set up a solid strategy - both from annoying callers as well as any unwanted law suits.

This is not legal advice, this is just my opinion as a real estate investor.

Podcast Guest on Show #109
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  • Greg ScottPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    7y

    Alan:

    I got one of the callers to put me in touch with the owner principal.  Here is how they are doing it:

    • They look through the public records to find non-owner occupants
    • Using skip trace or entity reporting information they find a good contact (i.e. your phone number)
    • They hire a virtual agent (usually someone in Asia) to call you using a script

    All of this costs them next to nothing to do, so unfortunately, is likely to continue. You may be able to use a trust or quit claim deed to a new LLC to hide your info which will help. Also, you can simply not answer the phone for unknown numbers which is what I do most of the time now.

    If you want to get off the phone really quickly, here is another way.  I sold a property and two months later got a call from someone looking to buy it.   "It's been sold already" ended the call rather abruptly.

    1Reply
  • Bob B.
    Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I'm a Sr. and they are now calling and texting my son Jr. and pitching their scam not realizing he doesn't own any property.   

    0Reply
  • Scott SmithPro Member
    Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 932 votes
    7y

    I would suggest the anonymous land trust. The power of anonymous land trusts is that these Anonymous Trusts can own the LLC itself as well as serve as Title Holding Trusts for the real estate asset. Yes, The LLC typically must disclose the members of the LLC on the filing instruments called the Articles of Incorporation. However, the member listed on the filing can be an Anonymous Trust. It does not have to be your name. Since the Anonymous Trust is a private document and it is not filed with the State, anybody researching the Owner or Beneficiary of the Trust will be unable to find that information in the public records. Additionally, anyone researching the owner of the real estate asset by searching the County Clerk records will only find the name of the Anonymous Land Trust. Since the Owner of Trust and the beneficiary is not registered with the state, they cannot find out that the Series LLC is the beneficiary of that Trust. If they wanted to fight this in court it would take again substantial amount of more time, billable ours, labor, manpower and money.

    Anonymity and privacy are just parts of asset protection. You ideally want to find an experience real estate attorney who can help you set up a solid strategy - both from annoying callers as well as any unwanted law suits.

    This is not legal advice, this is just my opinion as a real estate investor.

    Podcast Guest on Show #109
    6Reply
  • May Emery
    Specialist · Member since 2019 · 494 posts · 220 votes
    7y

    @Alan Grobmeier With the number of investors who are getting Absentee Owner Lists I'm not all that surprised. Although, this is the first time I've heard about the 2 PHONE Calls per week. How many letters are you getting?

    @Greg Scott, they don't have to go through public records, most are buying lists because they tend to be cleaner and it is easier to segment for the types of property and equity they want.

    This is why I recommend owner occupied motivated segments. These lists are newer and haven't gotten over-used. Yet.

    1Reply
  • Jason D.
    Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    Stop owning such awesome cash cows!

    1Reply
  • Jennifer T.Pro Member
    Investor · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 944 votes
    7y

    I get a lot of postcards.  Rarely phone calls.  However, when I do, I say something like, "I make tons of money on that house and am really not looking to sell.  But anything is for sale for the right price.  I could do (insert number that is twice the comps)."  It is, in fact, true.  I would sell any of my properties for twice the comps.  Darn it, though.  No one has taken me up on it yet, lol.  It does stop the conversation in its tracks and people are quick to get off the phone ;). 

    3Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    I tell them " i didnt realize how much my property was worth , everybody is sending me postcards wanting to buy it . So next week I am calling all of them to meet me there Saturday and bid the property up . Bring the money in $100 bills , I lOVE Cash 

    0Reply
  • Alan Grobmeier
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
    7y

    @May Emery, I get 5-6 letters a week.  It gets really tiresome.  :-(

    0Reply
  • John McGonigalPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Montgomery, AL · Member since 2018 · 80 posts · 51 votes
    7y

    I received my first text this week with a similar script... buying a house in the neighborhood , etc.

    0Reply
  • Mitch Coluzzi
    Investor · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2014 · 238 posts · 230 votes
    7y

    @Alan Grobmeier just my two cents, but I take the opportunity to reverse prospect. We do the same thing when we receive postcards. The wholesaler that is contacting you generally also will be selling homes, not rehabbing them. This isn't always the case but majority of the folks contacting me this holds true for.

    Instead of wasting your time (and theirs), break the script and try to pull value. Be very up front that you are an active investor, also looking for opportunities and are therefore not interested in selling. Most GOOD scripts have this in their process flow. Explain that if they have any opportunities in these neighborhoods you would be willing to consider purchasing or at minimum doing a boots on the ground review. Likewise, if you hear of anything that doesn't fit your criteria, will will pass it along to them.

    Mutual benefit can go a long way... If you're spending the time to torment the virtual assistant anyways, might as well pull value.

    5Reply
  • Mark Fries
    Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Alan Grobmeier

    Maybe just send unknown calls to your voicemail or dont answer... problem solved!

    0Reply
  • George J Anderson Jr
    Contractor · Spokane Wa · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    @Alan Grobmeier

    Tell them to put you on their buyers list!

    Why waste a good opening to network?

    They are calling you!

    These wholesalers are going out there and doing the leg work. Finding great deals that need a little TLC.

    Grab another rental property in your area from them. Lol

    Don’t let them calling you get you down. Use it to your advantage.

    I have a bunch of wholesale friends. They call me all the time.

    They are a great resource.

    40k for a house that needs 30k worth of work? ARV is 150. I'll take it.

    4Reply
  • George J Anderson Jr
    Contractor · Spokane Wa · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    @Mitch Coluzzi

    Your post is liquid gold my friend. Use them to your advantage. Purchase some property from them!

    I mean they are calling you. Might as well network.

    2Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y

    @Alan Grobmeier I agree with @George J Anderson Jr that you should look at this as a networking opportunity. Tell the caller you are a buyer, not a seller. Tell them to put you on their buyers list and only call you in the future if they have a deal. Then say, I don't have time to talk further so I have to let you go. Hang up. This entire conversation will take one minute of your time. That is two minutes per week or roughly 100 minutes a year. 

    Just in general you should consider if it is worth wasting energy on being annoyed. Literally to the point you are wasting extra time messing with them. If you truly value your time, then just say "not interested, take me off your list" and hang up.

    This is a sign of a hot real estate market. This will pass over time as people give up or when real estate markets cool. 

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Thing is, these calls are increasing. I have gotten 5 already this week and its only Tuesday.  From talking to neighbors, they are spamming anyone with a house in this area, since we are experiencing notable appreciation but are still very affordable compared to the rest of the US. 

    This is annoying and disruptive, and with the continuous flood of new wholesalers trying their hand at the game, the onslaught will probably generate enough complaints from normal people that eventually encourage the powers that be to crack down on wholesaling, which in Ohio, is apparently an illegal practice of real estate agency.  They are also not respecting the "do not call" list, as these are business solicitations at their core. A real estate agent would have to abide by that, but these guys are too aggressive and/or amateur to care. 

    You guys suggesting to reverse it into a lead, maybe you have that kind of spare time, but these calls are just recordings or Indonesian call centers, and I suspect they are already selling to the equity groups that are buying up around here.  

    I dont mind the letters and postcards. I actually do keep an eye on those to see whose in the game and who isnt, and if it was a real person calling me to chat, I'd love to talk. Hell even if they are a complete newbie with no deals I'd talk. But the call center and recording stuff is annoying as hell, and if it keeps getting worse, I will start complaining to the state myself. 

    1Reply
  • Jack B.
    Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Scott Smith:

    I would suggest the anonymous land trust. The power of anonymous land trusts is that these Anonymous Trusts can own the LLC itself as well as serve as Title Holding Trusts for the real estate asset. Yes, The LLC typically must disclose the members of the LLC on the filing instruments called the Articles of Incorporation. However, the member listed on the filing can be an Anonymous Trust. It does not have to be your name. Since the Anonymous Trust is a private document and it is not filed with the State, anybody researching the Owner or Beneficiary of the Trust will be unable to find that information in the public records. Additionally, anyone researching the owner of the real estate asset by searching the County Clerk records will only find the name of the Anonymous Land Trust. Since the Owner of Trust and the beneficiary is not registered with the state, they cannot find out that the Series LLC is the beneficiary of that Trust. If they wanted to fight this in court it would take again substantial amount of more time, billable ours, labor, manpower and money.

    Anonymity and privacy are just parts of asset protection. You ideally want to find an experience real estate attorney who can help you set up a solid strategy - both from annoying callers as well as any unwanted law suits.

    This is not legal advice, this is just my opinion as a real estate investor.

    I've thought about this for years, using a land trust for this purpose. Seems to me that although a subpoena would reveal the true owner, at least for the purpose of law suits and the like if someone was suing me, they wouldn't be able to find my properties via public records search. How bullet proof is this though? And how likely is it that they would eventually find my property (trying to find assets during a lawsuit) using other methods? Seems like it would be very difficult if not impossible unless you knew which land trust to subpoena? 

    0Reply
  • Scott SmithPro Member
    Attorney · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 932 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jack B.:
    Originally posted by @Scott Smith:

    I would suggest the anonymous land trust. The power of anonymous land trusts is that these Anonymous Trusts can own the LLC itself as well as serve as Title Holding Trusts for the real estate asset. Yes, The LLC typically must disclose the members of the LLC on the filing instruments called the Articles of Incorporation. However, the member listed on the filing can be an Anonymous Trust. It does not have to be your name. Since the Anonymous Trust is a private document and it is not filed with the State, anybody researching the Owner or Beneficiary of the Trust will be unable to find that information in the public records. Additionally, anyone researching the owner of the real estate asset by searching the County Clerk records will only find the name of the Anonymous Land Trust. Since the Owner of Trust and the beneficiary is not registered with the state, they cannot find out that the Series LLC is the beneficiary of that Trust. If they wanted to fight this in court it would take again substantial amount of more time, billable ours, labor, manpower and money.

    Anonymity and privacy are just parts of asset protection. You ideally want to find an experience real estate attorney who can help you set up a solid strategy - both from annoying callers as well as any unwanted law suits.

    This is not legal advice, this is just my opinion as a real estate investor.

    I've thought about this for years, using a land trust for this purpose. Seems to me that although a subpoena would reveal the true owner, at least for the purpose of law suits and the like if someone was suing me, they wouldn't be able to find my properties via public records search. How bullet proof is this though? And how likely is it that they would eventually find my property (trying to find assets during a lawsuit) using other methods? Seems like it would be very difficult if not impossible unless you knew which land trust to subpoena? 

    The goal is two-fold for introducing anonymity into your asset protection structure. The privacy from public record serves to avoid most nuisance law suits you would face, because people are just looking for easy pray and are generally just grasping at straw and hoping to get lucky. But that is just the surface-level benefit. Underlying that you are actually accomplishing two more things. You are raising the cost of any lawsuit, because anyone trying to sue you will need to prove ownership and will need to dish out discovery fees (or have the kindest attorney in the world who works for promises) in order to make  that connection. You are casting into doubt how much ownership you hold of that specific property, as this is a common entity used for multiple investment partners. So not only are you raising the cost of initiating any legal action, but you are also casting into doubt any potential payout. 

    It is not bullet-proof by any means. This strategy attacks the underlying motivation of lawsuits - plaintiffs and attorneys really just want money. This type of structure isn't impossible to find, but it does cost thousands of dollars in discovery just to initiate. So ideally you want to use it in conjunction with a [Series] LLC, so even if they do dish out all that money they only have access to a single property. On top of that, you can also introduce the "operations company." Essentially you create an LLC that carries out all the operations of your investments, but it doesn't actually hold any assets. This LLC pays the bills, collects rent, pays contractors, etc. It ends up holding most of the liability, but if someone initiates a lawsuit against the operational LLC (sometimes referred to as a shell company,) then you just dissolve it and start another one - the main things at risk as your liquid assets that were in that operational LLC.

    There are many more strategies that exist, too. Essentially you want to find an experienced real estate attorney who can lay out the best options for the portfolio you are looking to protect. A real savvy attorney should be able to streamline it all and even set up your strategy to work hand-in-hand with any future estate planning goals you have, so all the stuff you accumulate and are working to protect can be handed down the way you want it to.

    This isn't legal advice, just my opinion as a real estate investor.

    Podcast Guest on Show #109
    1Reply
  • Alan Grobmeier
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
    7y

    @Joe Splitrock, I do value my time.  But sometimes it’s fun just to screw w someone.  And nothing annoys me more than ‘idiots’, so I go into ‘full idiot mode’.

    1Reply
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