Turnkey Property Pro / Reveal Real Estate Management - Baltimore

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

@Ned Carey thanks Ned ! Totally agree. Prob too much risk for me on this one..

Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 0 votes

6y

Hi Doug,

Any updates on your research?

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

@Joseph Le not really. I walked away from the deals I was shown as well as the companies involved. Didn’t smell right to me and while the proposed returns looked good the lack of details available about the company and principals became a deal breaker for me. You getting involved there??

Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 0 votes

6y

@Doug Schorr I’m closing on a property from a wholesaler tomorrow & Reveal will be the property manager.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

@Joseph Le. Awesome. I’d love to hear how it all works out... congrats

Caleb Heimsoth

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

6y

@Doug Schorr. You made the right call for several reasons. 1. There are lots of bad experiences documents on BP involving maverick. You don’t want to involve yourself with them or anyone who associates with them.

2. Fronting a large (or all?) of a rehab cost up front is a bad idea. I guarantee that doesn’t end the way you think it does.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

@Caleb Heimsoth thanks !

Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 0 votes

6y

@Doug Schorr

Michael C.

Mc Lean, VA · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes

6y

Any new news on Turnkey Property Pro @Joseph Le ? I just stumbled upon them yesterday. Just like @Doug Schorr , I like what they're selling. But, I don't know anything about them.

Keith Stempel

Financial Advisor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 19 posts · 3 votes

6y

@Joseph Le curious your experience so far. I was referred to Turnkey Property Pro, have spoken to the principals as well as two investors who both had great things to say about them. Considering a due dil trip to Baltimore. I like the brrrr + TK approach. I know they are based on Philly but work w a large contractor in Baltimore along w the property mgmt firm who are both local, help with the selection of properties and are the boots on the ground there. Nothing smells off to me so far....but I've also not done any REI yet. Love to hear more on this feed

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Whitney HuttenPro Member

Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

6y

@Joseph Le I think it is wise, you are doing due diligence. I'd be more proactive in finding people who have worked with them though. I've found that reaching out directly to people who have invested yields better results. In my search, I've found 6 people who have invested with TKPP recently and like the deal. I also found 3 other marketers who have built a business referring to them. I would just dig some more... They will work with loans too. It's obviously easier for a provider to work with all cash, especially when there is plenty out there!

Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 0 votes

6y

Sorry for the delayed update, @Doug Schorr, @Keith Stempel, @Whitney Hutten. I personally met Oliver recently, the owner of Turnkey Property Pros and he is a great guy. My impression of him is that he that takes care of his customers because he values repeat business. As with any investment, doing your own due diligence is an expectation and you should always run your own numbers to see if the deal works for you. I'm continuing to work with him & his team to identify properties in neighborhoods I prefer.

In my opinion, real estate is not as passive as people starting this journey believe it to be, but leveraging a Turnkey provider such as Turkey Property Pros will get you as close to passiveness as possible--and it's safe to say that many of us prefer that.

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

@Joseph Le excellent and congratulations. Thanks for sharing and I am happy to hear it is working out for you well with them. And you’re dead right that while many of us are looking for “passive” investments there really is no thing such as totally hands off. We all need to mange the process and our managers because in the end it’s our investment. Enjoy the ride..

@Doug Schorr @Keith Stempel @Whitney Hutten @Michael C.

Jose Rios

Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 3 votes

6y

Hope all is well with everyone and your Family at this time in the world with everything going on.

Question, are there any new updates about Turnkey Property Pro that anyone can give on their knowledge of them from working with them or from knowing anyone who has worked with them? I see Joseph Le has been working with them, is there any updates about investing with them can you give?

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

Sorry @Jose Rios, no updates from here on this, I walked away and didn't look back.

Jose Rios

Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 3 votes

6y

Thanks @Doug Schorr

David Troust

Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 5 votes

6y

I've been vetting Turnkey Property Pro for the past few weeks, and their program and systems look solid. I am considering doing my first REI project with them, so I'm currently reviewing docs and other due diligence.

Does anyone else have any updates on this thread, concerning TKPP?

Dave

Jung Yi

Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 3 votes

6y

I bought a SFR through Turnkey Pro. My wife personally met with Thomas and Oliver and got a good impression of them. Bought the property at 80K + 20K renovations. their projected After Repair Value was 120K. I was only able to get an appraised value of 100K with Ridgeline Financing --which I took can COVID hit and I didn't want my cash stuck in the property. I was disappointed with the financing but I stuck it out with Turnkey Pro.

Like many, I went with Reveal Management for tenant placement and property management. Having dealt with them for the past 6 months.

All I can say is DO NOT GO WITH THIS MANAGEMENT COMPANY.

REVEAL MANAGEMENT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU AS THE PROPERTY OWNER OR YOUR TENANT.

After tenant placement (which they outsourced to Keller Williams and charged me more than the agreed one month's rent), I was surprised by how I was charged in my first billing statement $64.89 for a door key to be replaced. $4.89 for the replacement key, $60 for two trips by a representative ($30 each time) to fix the problem. I called and asked why I was charged two trips for something so trivial (in polite voice I promise). Taylor Tracy, my manager was very matter of fact that it took two trips so that's why I was charged twice.

In the same billing statement, they charged me twice "Admin Management Fee" for a general inspection as well as the lead inspection THAT WAS DONE ON THE SAME DAY. When I asked why should I be charged twice when if anyone at Reveal could have easily coordinated to have both inspections done back to back (same polite voice). Again, I was told that is how they do business.

The idea of "nickel and diming" popped in my head at that time but I held my tongue because this company was referred to me by Turnkey PP and perhaps these upfront costs were part of getting set up.

Man, was I completely wrong!

Fast Forward to August 2020, and the nickel and diming continued. During that time, any handyman/contracting work that was done on the house by Elite Contracting (Reveal's Contracting arm) came with a 25% mark up which I was told was customary.

I finally had enough and told them that I wished to terminate the agreement. Luckily I amended our contract agreement 2 months prior because although they were charging me only 7%, they charged a 3% surcharge every 3 months on all work related to the house--not including the 25% markup (WHO DOES THIS??). Under the amended agreement which started June 1 2020, I was charged a straight 7.5% and no 3 % surcharge. Also under the new agreement is a 90 day initial no penalty termination clause. I emailed them that I wished to exorcise this clause as I was under 90 days of the agreement.

This is what they wrote:

We are very sorry to see you go as we enjoyed having you as a client and working with the tenant at 2525 W Coldspring. Your official termination date will be 11/5/2020, as that is when your 1 year contract expires. Please note that there will be management fees due for the following months: August, September, October, November, and December (December will be equal to November) per section 7.1.

I replied:

Incorrect, Tracy. I signed a NEW agreement with beginning date, June 1 2020. Please refer to the agreement signed on my AppFolio portal under documents.
I am still within 90 days of the initial term to terminate the agreement WITHOUT PENALTY. I will be securing another property management team to care for my property by end of day, and will notify you with a forwarding address to send all documents and security deposit.

Then Reveal Management had the gaul to say that because my WIFE (who is not even named in this property nor under the LLC it is under) didn't sign the amended agreement, that it was never executed!!!

Hi Jesse,
Unfortunately, this agreement was never executed as Cassia never signed it. Without Cassia signing the contract, it could not have been executed by us.
I am happy to discuss this over the phone, you can call me at any time.

UNBELIEVABLE. I SWITCHED TO ANOTHER MORE REPUTABLE MANAGEMENT TEAM AND AM DISGUSTED BY HOW REVEAL TREATED ME. IN SUMMARY, I HAVE MADE $65 DOLLARS TOTAL SINCE HAVING REVEAL MANAGEMENT CARED FOR MY PROPERTY. THE MONTHLY RENT IS $1200! AND THEY STILL CHARGED ME 3 MONTHS PROPERTY MANAGEMENT FEES AS A "PENALTY."

STAY AWAY FROM REVEAL MANAGEMENT.

THEY WILL OVERCHARGE YOU WITH WANTON ABANDON.

Consider Canton Management (my new manager and so far --GREAT!) or Manage Baltimore.

Happy to discuss this with anyone who would like more details on any part of this post!

David Troust

Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 5 votes

6y

Hello Jung,

I have been vetting TKPP for the past 3-4 months, and I have spoken with Oliver about Reveal. It seems that TKPP has also seen client nailed for small repair charges for the past 4-5 months, especially during COVID-19, so Oliver is vetting replacement property mgmt companies. Your experience seems aligned with what Oliver and Alfred have told me on the phone, so they’re now looking into Canton Property Mgmt and other possibilities to better service their clients.

Property mgmt aside...what was your experience with TKPP through the purchase and renovation phase of your property? Did you do a BRRRR or purchase an already rehabbed property? Would you consider working with TKPP again, without Reveal in the mix? I'm interested to hear about your overall experience, as I'm close to potentially purchasing my first property with them. Did you purchase in Baltimore or Philly?

I look forward to hearing from you!

Dave

OP

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 47 posts · 20 votes

6y

@David Troust. Aren’t TKPP and Reveal Prop Management related?

Still glad I walked away.

David Troust

Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 5 votes

6y

Not really...the owners know each other, but it sounds like TKPP is done working with Reveal. Oliver has seen that Reveal has some questionable accounting practices, so he’s wisely making a change to protect his clientele.

2 Reply

Jung Yi

Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 3 votes

6y

Hey all, glad you guys responded!

Oliver has spoken to me about the disintegrating relationship between TurnkeyPP and Reveal Management. On a small scale they were nickel and diming me --bleeding me with several paper cuts a month...On a much larger scale, Reveal took COVID as an opportunity to hemorrhage Turnkey PP on a scale which is breathtaking.

As for TKPP's purchase and rehab for my property, I would say things originally went smoothly with a couple hiccups:

First hiccup was when my property was appraised at 101K (my Purchase + Rehab = ~100K). I would have searched for another financing company but COVID was just starting to shut things down... After discussing with Oliver, I decided to refinance with that number. With rent at $1200, I felt satisfied this deal still passed the 1% rule...

Second hiccup is the cancerous SAGA between myself and Reveal Management. Its unfortunate that TurnkeyPP recommended them to their clients because it reflects poorly on TurnkeyPP in leaving us --the owners, with such an unscrupulous management team.

Third hiccup is certain issues with the original rehab (done 9 months ago). I am currently dealing with this now (sigh). My new management team (Canton Management) put their eyes on the property as well as the tenant (whom I heard is polite and was just as frustrated with Reveal Management), and found bathroom and tile damage which was caused by poor installation of the toilet to the tile flooring. Since TurnkeyPP usedI've contacted Oliver and Thomas about either having them fix the issue with their contractors or pay Canton Management to fix it themselves. I have not heard from them yet.

2 Reply

Jose Rios

Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 3 votes

6y

Jung Yi, Thank you for your detailed insight with TKPP

Caleb Heimsoth

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

6y

@Jung Yi so it sounds like your experience was more or less what I commented about 9 months ago?

The easy days of BRRRing with built in equity are long gone. You took on a lot of rehab and didnt get any additional equity. You actually lost equity compared to simply buying a house at 100k straight up, assuming you had to refinance (due to additional closing costs).

Long distance turnkey investing almost never works and when you add rehabs it gets a lot worse much faster.

Your risk adjusted returns are much less then simply buying an index fund.