Buying a home in low income areas

Buying a home in low income areas

Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 29 votes

Hello!

My name is Brett Stander, a fourth year finance major graduating from Drexel University in Spring of 2021 (five year program).

While I understand the value of working a 9-5, W-2 job, I also see fear the dry, repetitive lifestyle that comes with it. So instead, I decided to start learning everything I could about real estate, and to look into buying a property this upcoming year.

A little about my financial situation- I am lucky enough to attend Drexel University with full tuition, meaning I am $0 in debt.

Another thing- while I do not have a large amount of financing to my name, I am working with my mom to buy a property in west Philadelphia. She has an LLC in her name that generates positive cash flows (nearly a decade of operation, so all debts are paid off). However, for tax reasons, she continually operates her business in either the negative or breakeven for tax breaks on her, and my fathers, personal tax statements.


All this considered, we are starting to look into our first property in West Philly. Because the area has yet to be touched by the magic of gentrification, the homes are still relatively inexpensive (a fixer upper level home with 3 bed one bath could go for as little as 35k-45k pre auction/foreclosure). 

Personally, I believe that the value in these homes does not lie in the cash flow (although positive NOI is relatively easily accesible given the nature of these homes in distress), rather the appreciation value. Philadelphia is a quickly gentrifying area, and homes that were in low income neighborhoods just ten years ago are now considered (somewhat) prime real estate.

Given this, I will be BRRRing these properties. I have talked to a few agents who have assured me that there are plenty of distressed properties in the area, and my goal is to rehab, and possibly add another bedroom, to cover the hardmoney loan (given a conservative LTV of 75%, but hoping for 80%).

So, I just have a few questions about buying in these neighborhoods. 

- What are the disadvantages to buying in these areas that I may be overlooking?

- Is it more difficult to find tenants?

- Is there a way for me to calculate (atleast roughly) appreciation value of these properties?

- How much will the neighborhood damage an appraisal value of a home? (attempting to BRRR these homes)

- Would section 8 be a good approach in these neighborhoods, or would this be too much of a headache (as the neighborhood is low income as is, I would prefer to stay away from difficult tenants for my first BRRR).

Any advice at all would help, as I would love to hear from the community on this. Thank you so much!

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Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

@Brett Stander, thanks for sharing, but that might be a bit TMI regarding yours and your mother's finances in an open forum with over 1 million sets of eyes...  just sayin'.

To respond to your query--lower-income (C- to D-) areas are a crapy crap-shoot.  They look great on spreadsheets, but the reality is that those numbers don't compute in real-world scenarios. It's impossible to factor in the repairs, late or no rents, evictions, and other games the tenants that dwell therein will teach you.

Remember:  you won't get an A tenant in a D neighborhood.  However, if you don't want the boredom of a 9-5, you'll find plenty of action and excitement in managing lower-income properties. 

Some folks love it and make money at it.  I'd rather have a root canal.  (Disclosure--I've managed plenty of 'sub' property, and had my share of serious dental work.  I'd rather the root canal...)

Good luck!

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  • Investor · Philadelphia · Member since 2020 · 17 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    Hey Brett, 

    I can definitely relate to your situation. I was a double major in finance and economics at west chester university and knew I didn't want the redundancy that came with most career paths my peers were taking. I can say from experience, you are definitely in the right space. To answer your questions; 

    1.) The only disadvantage I can see investing in these areas is finding the right tenant. Especially if you are doing section 8. I would spend as little as possible in the rehabs to limit your risk. 

    2.)Like I mentioned above. Not hard to find tenants, but may be hard finding the RIGHT tenants that will pay on time, keep the place clean and not be a nuisance. 

    3.) In a way yes, If you look at and compare listing and sold prices in a pocket, you can begin to notice trends in certain areas. Keeping up with certain market trends on yahoo finance, Housing wire and even here on Bigger pockets will tell you where investors are actively buying. I can speak to areas like Cobbs creek, Germantown and the far NE that, IMO, that have and will continue to see rapid appreciation in the coming years. 

    4.) Neighborhood and block appeal are a factor but this is fairly irrelevant if you just research comps in the area. 

    5.)Section 8 is not a bad idea because its a guaranteed tenant but most definitely a headache with meeting requirements and let alone the level of tenant you would get. 

    Hope this helps and feel free to reach out if you have any further questions! Always happy to talk about REI!

  • Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Brett Stander, thanks for sharing, but that might be a bit TMI regarding yours and your mother's finances in an open forum with over 1 million sets of eyes...  just sayin'.

    To respond to your query--lower-income (C- to D-) areas are a crapy crap-shoot.  They look great on spreadsheets, but the reality is that those numbers don't compute in real-world scenarios. It's impossible to factor in the repairs, late or no rents, evictions, and other games the tenants that dwell therein will teach you.

    Remember:  you won't get an A tenant in a D neighborhood.  However, if you don't want the boredom of a 9-5, you'll find plenty of action and excitement in managing lower-income properties. 

    Some folks love it and make money at it.  I'd rather have a root canal.  (Disclosure--I've managed plenty of 'sub' property, and had my share of serious dental work.  I'd rather the root canal...)

    Good luck!

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 31 posts · 29 votes
    6y

    @Marc Winter, thanks for your response! I appreciate the honest feedback (and yes, good point in terms of the "TMI," I am still feeling around for the right amount of openness to get good answers and keeping personal info shrouded). 

    Regarding the sub-properties, I think that's a good point. Probably something I know, but having someone say it in so many words does bring the issues to life a bit. 

  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John L Desimone:

    Hey Brett, 

    I can definitely relate to your situation. I was a double major in finance and economics at west chester university and knew I didn't want the redundancy that came with most career paths my peers were taking. I can say from experience, you are definitely in the right space. To answer your questions; 

    1.) The only disadvantage I can see investing in these areas is finding the right tenant. Especially if you are doing section 8. I would spend as little as possible in the rehabs to limit your risk. 

    2.)Like I mentioned above. Not hard to find tenants, but may be hard finding the RIGHT tenants that will pay on time, keep the place clean and not be a nuisance. 

    3.) In a way yes, If you look at and compare listing and sold prices in a pocket, you can begin to notice trends in certain areas. Keeping up with certain market trends on yahoo finance, Housing wire and even here on Bigger pockets will tell you where investors are actively buying. I can speak to areas like Cobbs creek, Germantown and the far NE that, IMO, that have and will continue to see rapid appreciation in the coming years. 

    4.) Neighborhood and block appeal are a factor but this is fairly irrelevant if you just research comps in the area. 

    5.)Section 8 is not a bad idea because its a guaranteed tenant but most definitely a headache with meeting requirements and let alone the level of tenant you would get. 

    Hope this helps and feel free to reach out if you have any further questions! Always happy to talk about REI!

    >4.) Neighborhood and block appeal are a factor but this is fairly irrelevant if you just research comps in the area.

    I am not sure how to interpret this but the area caps the upper end of any appraisal from a rehab.  It you put class A amenities in a class D neighborhood, you will not get a good return.  If you research the comps, this will be reflected in the comps (the second part of the statement should be the takeaway).  You want to rehab the RE to maximize profit.  This means understanding the cost of various finish decisions as well as their associated return for the area.  

    So the area is very important in the success of a BRRRR. You must know the area, what the comps can justify, What rehab features cost in the area, what the tenants desire and are willing to pay for (maybe all tenants would prefer granite counters but in lower class areas they typically are not going to pay extra for it). Similarly in upper class areas it may be difficult to rent a unit with Formica counters.

    Good luck

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