Why I ignored the 1% rule

Why I ignored the 1% rule

Rental Property Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 176 votes
I'm getting ready to purchase my second SFH rental in a booming Texas town full of new industry. This property is on the same street as my other SFH. Looking at the numbers, here's why I disregarded the 1% rule when making this call. On a side note, the market is so compressed here that finding a 1% property is very difficult because housing supply is very low in the area. Also, these are both pretty turn key properties with no rehab needed. Property 1: 3/2 @ 1,456 sq ft Purchased in May 2019 Purchase price: 167,000 with 20% down Interest Rate: 5.75% (3.75% after refi in process) PITI: 1,197 (1,037 after refi in process) Rent: 1,625 Cash Flow after expenses: 147.52 (308.00 after refi in process) Property 2: 3/2 @ 1,316 Will close in April 2020 Purchase price: 179,900 with 25% down Interest Rate: 3.625% PITI: 1,023 Rent: 1,500 (market comps) Cash Flow after expenses: 191.00 As you can see, my second property isn't even close to the 1% rule, but it cash flows better than my larger home that was purchased last year for 13k less. Why is that? INTEREST RATES! They are insanely low right now, so I'm not wasting the opportunity. Notice my first property is at a 5.75% interest rate that was bought in May last year. I'm in the process of refinancing that one at a 3.75% rate which will bring my PITI to 1,037 and will bring my cash flow to 308.00 within the next 45 days. Should cost me no money out of pocket for the refi. Like I mentioned before, both of these properties are in excellent shape with very little expense having to be put into them, so cash flow is actually much higher (for now) due to low maint costs. Neither of these properties make sense if looking strictly at the 1% rule which is why you have to consider many things when making a decision. I don't mind paying more for something if my cash flow is there....why is cash flow there? INTEREST RATES!! Also, I considered appreciation in this case as well but didn't base my purchase solely off of it. Check out that first property. I bought it at 114 a sq ft and the second one at 136 a sq ft. These properties are literally down the street from each other and are almost identical except for square footage. See the appreciation there on the first property in less than a years time???!!! INSANE! I still consider myself "new" to this although in less than a years time I've purchased two rentals, and bought, rehabbed and sold a flip house. I still have a lot to learn, so I'm open to any comments I get here. We're all learning together! My point of this post is to take advantage of interest rates while you can. We won't see this again for years and years!
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Corby GoadeBusiness Member
Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

I always get a kick out of people from other parts of the country telling someone their deal is "bad" because the numbers are different than the one deal they did six years ago in Kansas. I've said this on these forums so many times it's getting boring to me....a "good" deal is specific to every market and investor. Do you think that no one buys MFH in LA because they don't meet the 2% rule? Of course not- it's just that those investors are too busy being successful to hang out here on BP. 

I work with lots of full-time, retired early, millionaire real estate investors who snatch up SFH and MFH all over the country. They've never heard of the 1% rule, they seem to be doing okay, buying up investments with their own cash and collecting rents. It's all relative. I've been investing for 20 years, quit my job after several decent deals, and I don't think I've ever bought a property that met the 1% rule, let alone 2%.

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  • La Vergne, TN · Member since 2016 · 93 posts · 28 votes
    6y

    @Clint G. Sounds good to me as long siuts your style.

  • Financial Advisor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 97 posts · 24 votes
    6y

    @Clint G. What’s your buying criteria?

  • Financial Advisor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 97 posts · 24 votes
    6y

    @Corby Goade what’s your criteria when considering a deal?

  • Rental Property Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 176 votes
    6y

    @Demarcus Crump

    For me, I work a ton, so having time to rehab a bunch of properties is out if the question right now.

    I'm looking for turnkey type properties in a growing market that can spit out a little cash flow 150-200 per door. Lucky for me I live in an area of TX where homes are appreciating at a fast clip. This is just icing on the cake.

    I'm not living off the cash flow, so real estate for me is a long game of having someone else pay my mortgages, while enjoying some appreciation over time, and is a great tax shelter.

    This won't be everyone's idea of investing, but it works for me right now. Plans will always change over time though.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2019 · 88 posts · 55 votes
    6y

    I used to live Corpus,Christi, TX but moved to DFW to get into real estate investment. I felt that DFW had a more robust job market compared to Corpus. The insurance is also a lot cheaper than Corpus after hurricane Harvey. My question is did you find a lower cost on home owners insurance? The cost I was quoted was 300 a month for single family. I pay 130 a month for insurance on my duplex.

  • Yogesh BhadanePro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fairfield, CA · Member since 2019 · 54 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    @Clint G.

    Way to go brother. At least you found your buying criteria dialed in. You are like me I am about .8% CoC with solid B and above Class properties where you will enjoy both appreciation and cash flow. Some of my properties are brand new. Works for me as a passive investor that too with 15% down.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Corby Goade You say that every property that you hold over a period of time eventually becomes a great deal. Well that was not my experience. I bought 3 duplexes and an SFR in Indianapolis in 2016. I held the until 2019 and 2020 and I lost money on the portfolio through out the time that I held those properties. Most of them weren't great properties but I didn't know that at the time. I wasn't as familiar with the city and I saw really cheap properties and high cash flow numbers and I jumped in. After losing money each year though turn over, evictions, vacancy, and repairs, I started selling off the properties. So the statement that every property that you hold over a period of time eventually becomes a great deal, simply was not true in this case. Had I of held the properties for longer, I believe I would have just gotten the same results but I also would have eventually gotten several large capital expenditures to come up as well such as roofs, plumbing, electrical and more.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Clint G. I believe you may have gotten some good properties, but I don't think you got good deals. Buying properties at market value is usually not a deal; it's just a property. Now it is possible to buy properties at market value and still cash flow on them with enough money down, but this does lower your cash on cash return and your ROI quite a bit to the point that you may get better returns by simply lending your money out at 10%. But if you are playing the appreciation game then you may be willing to sacrifice short term cash flow for appreciation.

    When I buy properties, I want my net worth to go up 20 - 30k at closing (or soon after if it’s a value add play). It takes more work to find these properties, however, once I close on them and start the refi process, I can usually get my money back out of the property relatively quickly because my total into the property is usually 75 - 80% of the market value of the home. This allows me to recycle the same money while I build wealth and cash flow.

    If you continue to buy properties at market value you will continue to need to put 20 - 25% down for each purchase and you will eventually run out of money to buy more properties. It is a slow way to scale up and a slow way to build wealth.

    Forced appreciation or buying properties well under market value is your wealth multiplier and that is how you scale quickly. I am of course assuming that you would rather build wealth faster than slower which may not be the case.

  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Demarcus Crump for my personal situation and the market I am in, If I can rehab and create around 20% equity in less than 1 year and at least break even on cash flow the first year, I am a happy camper. 

    My market is the fastest appreciating market in the country- many new investors completely ignore appreciation, understandably, but it's essential in building long term wealth. I like to tell my clients who struggle with the concept that cashflow pays for your kids lunch- which is great, we have to eat, but appreciation pays for their college.

    With very few exceptions, you need both in order to thrive in REI. So many new investors only focus on cash flow, but don't understand the pitfalls of myopic investing. I get lots of calls from investors who have spent 5-10 years strictly focusing on cash flow who call me because they have learned over time that they are't making any real ground.

    I know I'm giving you way more detail than you asked for- so my final thought- if you buy in a good, appreciating market, nearly any investment can be made to cash flow over time, BUT in many high cash flow markets, you can't reasonably expect real appreciation over time. 

  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Shiloh Lundahl- Sorry to hear about your experience. Funny you should mention that- I get torn apart on these forums fairly often for cautioning novice investors against "high" cash flow markets for the exact reasons you mention. I wasn't very thorough in my comment, but you are totally right. 

    I get calls regularly from investors who have done exactly what you did and have come to realize that those high cash flow markets are anything but passive and the capex and turnover costs have killed them over the course of a few years. People often get in to those deals only looking at the raw cash flow, thinking it will be passive, but even if you aren't up on the roof replacing shingles, writing checks on the regular like that sure doesn't feel passive. 

  • Nick GiulioniPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Carmel, IN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 615 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Clint G.:

    I'm getting ready to purchase my second SFH rental in a booming Texas town full of new industry. This property is on the same street as my other SFH. Looking at the numbers, here's why I disregarded the 1% rule when making this call. On a side note, the market is so compressed here that finding a 1% property is very difficult because housing supply is very low in the area. Also, these are both pretty turn key properties with no rehab needed.

    Property 1:
    3/2 @ 1,456 sq ft
    Purchased in May 2019
    Purchase price: 167,000 with 20% down
    Interest Rate: 5.75% (3.75% after refi in process)
    PITI: 1,197 (1,037 after refi in process)
    Rent: 1,625
    Cash Flow after expenses: 147.52 (308.00 after refi in process)

    Property 2:
    3/2 @ 1,316
    Will close in April 2020
    Purchase price: 179,900 with 25% down
    Interest Rate: 3.625%
    PITI: 1,023
    Rent: 1,500 (market comps)
    Cash Flow after expenses: 191.00

    As you can see, my second property isn't even close to the 1% rule, but it cash flows better than my larger home that was purchased last year for 13k less. Why is that? INTEREST RATES! They are insanely low right now, so I'm not wasting the opportunity.

    Notice my first property is at a 5.75% interest rate that was bought in May last year. I'm in the process of refinancing that one at a 3.75% rate which will bring my PITI to 1,037 and will bring my cash flow to 308.00 within the next 45 days. Should cost me no money out of pocket for the refi.

    Like I mentioned before, both of these properties are in excellent shape with very little expense having to be put into them, so cash flow is actually much higher (for now) due to low maint costs.

    Neither of these properties make sense if looking strictly at the 1% rule which is why you have to consider many things when making a decision. I don't mind paying more for something if my cash flow is there....why is cash flow there? INTEREST RATES!!

    Also, I considered appreciation in this case as well but didn't base my purchase solely off of it. Check out that first property. I bought it at 114 a sq ft and the second one at 136 a sq ft. These properties are literally down the street from each other and are almost identical except for square footage. See the appreciation there on the first property in less than a years time???!!! INSANE!

    I still consider myself "new" to this although in less than a years time I've purchased two rentals, and bought, rehabbed and sold a flip house. I still have a lot to learn, so I'm open to any comments I get here. We're all learning together!

    My point of this post is to take advantage of interest rates while you can. We won't see this again for years and years!

    You are going to catch a lot of flack for this way of thinking - but you are prioritizing better tenants and total IRR. I like it.

  • Rental Property Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 176 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Emanuel Ohunwu:

    I used to live Corpus,Christi, TX but moved to DFW to get into real estate investment. I felt that DFW had a more robust job market compared to Corpus. The insurance is also a lot cheaper than Corpus after hurricane Harvey. My question is did you find a lower cost on home owners insurance? The cost I was quoted was 300 a month for single family. I pay 130 a month for insurance on my duplex.

    Having to carry windstorm really drives the insurance price up, but for both of these my cost is $83/month each, which includes windstorm. Both are at a 5% deductible. Very reasonable.

  • Rental Property Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 176 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

    @Clint G. I believe you may have gotten some good properties, but I don't think you got good deals. Buying properties at market value is usually not a deal; it's just a property. Now it is possible to buy properties at market value and still cash flow on them with enough money down, but this does lower your cash on cash return and your ROI quite a bit to the point that you may get better returns by simply lending your money out at 10%. But if you are playing the appreciation game then you may be willing to sacrifice short term cash flow for appreciation.

    When I buy properties, I want my net worth to go up 20 - 30k at closing (or soon after if it’s a value add play). It takes more work to find these properties, however, once I close on them and start the refi process, I can usually get my money back out of the property relatively quickly because my total into the property is usually 75 - 80% of the market value of the home. This allows me to recycle the same money while I build wealth and cash flow.

    If you continue to buy properties at market value you will continue to need to put 20 - 25% down for each purchase and you will eventually run out of money to buy more properties. It is a slow way to scale up and a slow way to build wealth.

    Forced appreciation or buying properties well under market value is your wealth multiplier and that is how you scale quickly. I am of course assuming that you would rather build wealth faster than slower which may not be the case.

    I completely understand what you're saying here. I know this is probably the slowest way to scale, so I'm learning more and more about how to purchase off market properties either through wholesalers or auctions. In the mean time, I'm not sitting on the sidelines and waiting for the perfect property. There is a lot of growth here and a housing shortage, so that plays into my decision to jump in and quit over thinking things. 

    If you have any ideas you can share to find properties like yours, please do. I'm always learning.

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Clint G. I would suggest connecting with someone in the market that you want to invest in that is currently buying properties under market value and learn how they are doing it. Books and podcasts are great, but they don’t replace listening and learning from someone who is currently actually doing it in your market.

    One way to entice someone to work with you and show you how to buy under market properties in your area would be to offer to fund their rehab costs through a low interest private money loan. Lots of people lend to me to learn and I pay them 8 - 10% on their private money loans and they get on my WhatsApp group so they can see how we are getting and rehabbing and leasing out our properties and they get to see how our our system functions.

  • Rental Property Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 176 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nick Giulioni:

    You are going to catch a lot of flack for this way of thinking - but you are prioritizing better tenants and total IRR. I like it.

    No doubt, Nick. Everyone has their strategy (and everyone thinks theirs is the right one) and this is mine for now. I'm buying nice homes in nice neighborhoods that are appreciating rapidly and filling them with high earning tenants.....and cash flow is pretty solid for a SFH. I think I got ONE call from a tenant last year....that's what I'm paying for when I'm paying market prices. I can't complain about that right now.

    I don't have time to manage tenants and turnover that I'd get from lower class assets with higher cash flow. I'm trading lower cash flow for less management, less turnover, and appreciation. This might not be my mindset forever, but it works for me today.

  • Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 261 posts · 253 votes
    6y

    As long as you're happy with the deal, it doesn't matter what % rule is involved.  Everyone has a different plan for how to build their business and that may change for you and it may not, but I would imagine people here would be pretty supportive overall as long as your model is working.  Real estate is all about finding your way of investing AS LONG AS you can continue to do it and it's making money.

  • Rental Property Investor · Papillion, NE · Member since 2020 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Corby Goade. I completely agree Corby. I had no idea what the 1% rule was when I bought my first rental, other than the value after rehab and the potential cash flow. If you manage the property yourself your numbers may be different. Also, we don't know how new or what condition the property is in. It is possible that this scenario over time may prove rewarding down the road. Not everyone had the benefit of buying properties after the financial crisis.

  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    6y
    I think the OP's point here was that you really need to do the math and not just rely solely on a 'rule of thumb' like this 1% rule.  Sounds like it is a valid point.  One major change in inputs can change your results - something a rule of thumb calculation would gloss over.

    His deal may or may not make sense to you, but the way I read his post, it does back up his original point. 

    If you can find a deal that cash flows, then you aren't counting on appreciation - I didn't really understand where those comments were coming from.  This is Texas, for crying out loud, there isn't much here in the way of appreciation, ever.  This is a cash flow market.
  • Rental Property Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2019 · 306 posts · 176 votes
    6y

    @Mark Sewell

    Well said.

    This was exactly my point. Rules of thumb are good sniff tests, but you could pass on some good deals if you don't take all things into consideration.

  • Real Estate Broker · Lexington, KY · Member since 2017 · 131 posts · 129 votes
    6y

    I don't think in terms of 1% rule but CoC return and cap rate. A 5% CoC return isn't a lot but I guess it just depends on what your investing criteria is. If that's what you are happy with and it fits your strategy and goals, well great! Personally I think you could find more liquid ways if you wanted to make 5%.

    I have two quadplexes that are well over the 1% rule but cash flow still isn’t great because the amount $ I had to put into capex and repairs/maintenance.

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