How does a newbie put in offers without looking at property?

How does a newbie put in offers without looking at property?

New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes

Hello!

I am a new investor in southern Wisconsin. I was going to start talking to potential buyers through marketing efforts.  Now I am afraid to start marketing because I can't go into the properties and view them with the Corona Virus going strong.  At the same time I feel like this is a great time to find motivated buyers.  Any advice would be appreciated.

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Investor · Minnetonka, MN · Member since 2013 · 70 posts · 100 votes
6y

@Leigh Harris

Glad to hear you're getting into investing! I would not put marketing efforts on hold, as deals will continue to flow (and may actually improve in light of current circumstances). If you have a good deal come your way but are hesitant to pull the trigger, referring that lead to someone in your network/marketplace will go a long way in building your reputation in the marketplace.

Be sure you have solid reserves for the unknown. Cash will be necessary whether it's to float a long term rental experiencing abnormal vacancy, or to provide a contingency fund to cover cost overruns on a remodeling project.

It takes time, but knowing rehab costs is essential if value-add is your goal niche. I rehabbed houses full-time in the Minneapolis, Minnesota market (and surrounding suburbs) from 2011 until 2014, and now work full-time as a general contractor on (mainly) larger scale remodels. Although it's a great idea to get a few GCs out to verify costs, you also need to be wary of the type of contractor willing to schedule an appointment/provide a bid on a property that is not under contract. These are often contractors looking for work out of necessity (who tend to fail to deliver projects on time or on budget). Once you have an ongoing relationship with a few GCs, they'll be willing to do favors like this in the interest of the ongoing partnership.

I personally will not provide bids on properties that are not under contract. The Minnesota market is extremely competitive, and time is a finite resource. I know investors who have lost out on 5-6+ properties in multiple offers before they finally get a purchase agreement accepted. I have no problem giving time to bid a project I may be awarded (will only lose the project if my cost, working style, or availability are not in line with goals); however, I can't afford to give time bidding a project that a client may be unable to award, even if we’re the perfect fit (they don’t own or have the property under contract).

I know my construction numbers inside and out for my market (as I should after 10 years of full-time construction work). As such, I can bid a bathroom remodel for a client based on square footage, scope of work, and photos, and be within 5% of final cost (I'm typically within 5% even on jobs over $100,000 at this point). As such, if you're able to get that information (either from the MLS or seller), reputable companies should be able to easily give you a solid ballpark idea on renovation cost without visiting the property.

It is extremely important to verify the contractors you interview not only talk the talk, but walk the talk. Check references, ask to view job sites under construction and completed (cleanliness during the process, quality of end product), require proof of insurance and licensing, etc. Partner with the right contractor(s), and rehabbing is an awesome experience. Partner with the wrong contractor(s), and after one project you'll want to permanently close the door on RE investing.

Your first few projects will be the most difficult; however, "high-level" figures on cosmetics and standard replacements (furnace, A/C, water heater, etc) don't take long to master (at least within 10-15% variation). Call trade companies and obtain a general idea of cost for a furnace replacement, new roof (by square, 1 square = 100 sq ft), water heater replacement, cabinet costs (often by linear foot), flooring costs (by square foot), counter costs (by square foot), etc. Quality companies typically have no problem offering their. This will boost your preliminary knowledge base exponentially, and thereafter your confidence in offering on properties.

Once you have a bit more comfort with the straight forward items (or while you’re learning about them), get a property under contract with an inspection contingency of 14+ business days. At that point, a number of reputable companies should be willing to bid the project in person, and if your rough guess is way off, you can renegotiate with the seller, or back out of the deal.

Pursuing off-market property is definitely the best way to find deals right now, and I would argue those sellers may be even more motivated at this time (market uncertainty, reduction in showing traffic/potential health exposure, etc).

Finally, approach your investing similar to a "batting average". In the MLB, nobody has hit over .400 in a season since Ted Williams in 1941...which means he failed to hit 60% of the time he was at the plate, and everyone since then has failed at least as much! Don't be afraid to offer on properties and lose out on them, and after a few overly-cautious deals (since losses right out of the gate can be difficult to recover from), realize you'll always have some losers (I lost $30,000+ on one “flip”, but was able to off-set that loss by soldiering on and having a couple of winners immediately thereafter).

Hopefully you find this information helpful. If you ever have general construction questions, please feel free to reach out via message and I'd be happy to provide additional insight (may or may not be beneficial, since I'm in a different market).

Best of luck!

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  • Real Estate Agent · NJ · Member since 2019 · 237 posts · 169 votes
    6y

    You could ask them to provide pictures or instead of a phone call if they are interested in moving forward you could video conference with them using FaceTime or some other means. That way they can "walk you through" the property. 

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y
  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Shain Ismailovski!  

    That is an interesting idea. What about determining rehab costs? I can't get anyone out there for a quote and don't have any experience pricing jobs beyond work I have done on my own house. Any thoughts?

  • Specialist · Ennis, MT · Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Are you only interested in properties with buildings on site, or are you also interested in land investments? Right now is a great time to get into land investing, and also has the bonus of not needing to be inspected, but instead surveyed. 

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Tay Aguirre!  I don't know a lot about land investing.  Any directions where to get info?

  • Real Estate Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    You have to learn to estimate rehab costs and put your offer in based on your criteria and the numbers that work for the returns you seek. Once under contract you can have a few GC’s come out and give bids on the work to make sure the numbers are in line with what you projected. If not you can back out of the deal but only if you had an inspection contingency in the offer which you should along with financing contingency unless you’re in a super competitive market where those are typically waived but as a newbie you want to make sure those are included to protect yourself.

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Brian Garrett that is my one weakness.  I don't know rehab costs.  Not yet anyway.  My plan was to get a couple GC's out before making an offer.  I can't do that in the current environment so my whole execution is on hold unless I can come up with a (relatively) safe generic estimate calculation.   The only property I have ever done work on is my own home which I bought new.  Is there a dollar amount per square foot that could be a worst case scenario?  or is there a "kitchen" number or a "bathroom" number that is generally in a safe zone?  Are there websites or books that might help me?   I know nothing is fool proof.

    My general plan was to find motivated sellers who haven't listed their property yet through different marketing approaches.  I was going to start the week of March 20th when this who Corona virus happened.  Right now I have put the whole thing on hold  because of my fear of not estimating rehab costs properly and making a poor offer. I understand having the contingencies will protect me from moving forward if the deal is no good.  I just feel like I am shooting in the dark.

    Am I being silly?
     

  • Linda HastingsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Stockdale, TX · Member since 2017 · 284 posts · 202 votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris There are several podcasts and educators out there for land investing. If you are looking for a good (free) place to start, I recommend @Seth Williams' blog over at REtipster.com. He does also have a paid course, but the blog has a ton of content to get you started.

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thank you @Linda Hastings!  I will check it out!  :)

  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris There are several books related to estimating rehab costs. I picked up Jay Scott's book on flipping properties because it's easy to read and straight to the point. You need to learn this on your own, get quotes from contractors, and learn material costs. Without these skills you're kind of making blind offers. Here's the link for that book! Good luck man.  

    https://www.amazon.com/Book-Flipping-Houses-Residential-BiggerPockets/dp/0988973707

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Jaron Walling!  I just ordered the book from Amazon!  

  • Investor · Minnetonka, MN · Member since 2013 · 70 posts · 100 votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris

    Glad to hear you're getting into investing! I would not put marketing efforts on hold, as deals will continue to flow (and may actually improve in light of current circumstances). If you have a good deal come your way but are hesitant to pull the trigger, referring that lead to someone in your network/marketplace will go a long way in building your reputation in the marketplace.

    Be sure you have solid reserves for the unknown. Cash will be necessary whether it's to float a long term rental experiencing abnormal vacancy, or to provide a contingency fund to cover cost overruns on a remodeling project.

    It takes time, but knowing rehab costs is essential if value-add is your goal niche. I rehabbed houses full-time in the Minneapolis, Minnesota market (and surrounding suburbs) from 2011 until 2014, and now work full-time as a general contractor on (mainly) larger scale remodels. Although it's a great idea to get a few GCs out to verify costs, you also need to be wary of the type of contractor willing to schedule an appointment/provide a bid on a property that is not under contract. These are often contractors looking for work out of necessity (who tend to fail to deliver projects on time or on budget). Once you have an ongoing relationship with a few GCs, they'll be willing to do favors like this in the interest of the ongoing partnership.

    I personally will not provide bids on properties that are not under contract. The Minnesota market is extremely competitive, and time is a finite resource. I know investors who have lost out on 5-6+ properties in multiple offers before they finally get a purchase agreement accepted. I have no problem giving time to bid a project I may be awarded (will only lose the project if my cost, working style, or availability are not in line with goals); however, I can't afford to give time bidding a project that a client may be unable to award, even if we’re the perfect fit (they don’t own or have the property under contract).

    I know my construction numbers inside and out for my market (as I should after 10 years of full-time construction work). As such, I can bid a bathroom remodel for a client based on square footage, scope of work, and photos, and be within 5% of final cost (I'm typically within 5% even on jobs over $100,000 at this point). As such, if you're able to get that information (either from the MLS or seller), reputable companies should be able to easily give you a solid ballpark idea on renovation cost without visiting the property.

    It is extremely important to verify the contractors you interview not only talk the talk, but walk the talk. Check references, ask to view job sites under construction and completed (cleanliness during the process, quality of end product), require proof of insurance and licensing, etc. Partner with the right contractor(s), and rehabbing is an awesome experience. Partner with the wrong contractor(s), and after one project you'll want to permanently close the door on RE investing.

    Your first few projects will be the most difficult; however, "high-level" figures on cosmetics and standard replacements (furnace, A/C, water heater, etc) don't take long to master (at least within 10-15% variation). Call trade companies and obtain a general idea of cost for a furnace replacement, new roof (by square, 1 square = 100 sq ft), water heater replacement, cabinet costs (often by linear foot), flooring costs (by square foot), counter costs (by square foot), etc. Quality companies typically have no problem offering their. This will boost your preliminary knowledge base exponentially, and thereafter your confidence in offering on properties.

    Once you have a bit more comfort with the straight forward items (or while you’re learning about them), get a property under contract with an inspection contingency of 14+ business days. At that point, a number of reputable companies should be willing to bid the project in person, and if your rough guess is way off, you can renegotiate with the seller, or back out of the deal.

    Pursuing off-market property is definitely the best way to find deals right now, and I would argue those sellers may be even more motivated at this time (market uncertainty, reduction in showing traffic/potential health exposure, etc).

    Finally, approach your investing similar to a "batting average". In the MLB, nobody has hit over .400 in a season since Ted Williams in 1941...which means he failed to hit 60% of the time he was at the plate, and everyone since then has failed at least as much! Don't be afraid to offer on properties and lose out on them, and after a few overly-cautious deals (since losses right out of the gate can be difficult to recover from), realize you'll always have some losers (I lost $30,000+ on one “flip”, but was able to off-set that loss by soldiering on and having a couple of winners immediately thereafter).

    Hopefully you find this information helpful. If you ever have general construction questions, please feel free to reach out via message and I'd be happy to provide additional insight (may or may not be beneficial, since I'm in a different market).

    Best of luck!

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Wow @Keith Linne!  A big thank you!  That is a lot of good information.  Thanks for taking the time to drop some knowledge on me!

  • Adam TafelBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 577 posts · 395 votes
    6y

    I've been doing video tours for clients all week, many are making offers sight-unseen. We write offers with a shorter inspection period, during which the buyer can back out of the deal. A smart seller will have at least one unit vacant before listing right now, fully occupied properties can be tricky. 

    Upside Property Sales 4.9108 Reviews
  • Rental Property Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2017 · 50 posts · 50 votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris this topic -- buying houses without ever stepping foot in them -- is discussed in detail in today's podcast https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/biggerpockets-podcast-377-chris-arnold

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thanks @Kevin Leahy!  I will check it out.  I've been falling behind on my podcasts because I typically listen while traveling....  :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Hugo, MN · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 596 votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris we do everything with virtual tours now. We run the a 360 degree virtual video for clients, tenants, and listings. It is like being there, the client controls the view and can view as many times as they want.

    We used to do this for out of town clients, but now even in towns clients can view properties from their home.

    This will change real estate services forever.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 172 posts · 122 votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris Hopefully you know a contractor or two. You can have a contractor give you a "rough" estimate based on pictures and videos. Obviously you would tell the seller that you still need to do a proper inspection once you are under contract. 

    Once you have the contract and you do a proper inspection, you can go back to the seller and demand a lower price if the numbers don't work out. Hope this helps!

  • Member since 2020 · 12 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    @Keith Linne nice explanation!

  • Rental Property Investor · Powder Springs, GA · Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 4 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Leahy:

    @Leigh Harris this topic -- buying houses without ever stepping foot in them -- is discussed in detail in today's podcast https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/biggerpockets-podcast-377-chris-arnold

    One of my favorite podcasts to date for new investors. Highly recommend if you're having trouble shifting a business model in todays market. 

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Try the 50 house rule.  It should help a lot in trying to solve this.

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thank you @Ian Walsh!  I am not familiar with the 50 house rule.  I looked it up online but didn't see anything.

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thank you for the info @Adam Tafel!  I forget that everyone has video making equipment in their pocket!  I like that idea.  Thanks!

  • New to Real Estate · Pingree Grove, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    Thank you @Matthew Lopez!  Nice to be here.

  • Real Estate Agent · Fleetwood, NY · Member since 2018 · 264 posts · 235 votes
    6y

    @Leigh Harris Glad to hear you're getting into investing! Congrats on getting started - most people don't even get this far! Here's my two cents...

    Rehab numbers are tricky for a newbie. Books and podcasts are a great way to get a general idea, but they still won't make you feel 100% confident because renovation costs vary based on the market you are in. Hearing what somebody pays in New York isn't going to help you a ton. If I were you, I would be doing a few things:

    1. Look at your competition to see the types of finishes they're using. Carpet or hardwood for the floor? Granite or formica countertops? Vinyl or clapboard siding? Once you know what's being used, you could now look up the prices (hardwood floor on Home Depot, for example) and call contractors in the area to give a rough quote (ask a flooring contractor how much he would charge to install X sqft of hardwood, for example). You'll now have an idea of material and labor costs for a flooring, in this example.

    2. Talk to investors in the area. They're doing it already! There's nobody better to learn from.

    3. To piggy back of number 2, partner with those other investors. Find and bring them a deal and you'll be able to learn so much through one project.

    Hope this helps! Best of luck.

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