First Investment question

First Investment question

Port Ludlow, WA · Member since 2013 · 29 posts · 7 votes

So I have been wanting to invest in real estate for a while now, as it is part of my retirement plan. Been waiting for a good time and have finally decided to pull the trigger. Worked quite a few numbers, and found a home that I am about to put an offer on. Well untill yesterday that I was doing a bit more reaserch and found this 2% rule and 50% rule. Now I don't know... With those rules it is impossible to buy a house in this area. Also, I am seeing that the 2% rule was made back when interest rates were double what they are now. So I am looking to get some advice and see if I should go ahead and pull the trigger or back off before it's too late.

The house is a 3 bd 1.75 bath. 1880 Sq ft. Nice home, half carpet half hard wood. Been on the market for over 200 days. Asking price is 157k. They currently owe 123k on their loan. I am using a VA loan so no down, awesome interest rate. I will be asking them to pay for about 10k in closing costs so I figured 135-140k would be a decent offer as I am not willing to go higher than that. Also the average price for such a home is 150-165.

Having done my homework on rental prices the best I can get is about 1050 for that place if I want any chance of renting it out. So the math comes out as this:

For a 140k loan at 3.5% average
629 P&I
131 taxes
67 HOI
-----------
827 Total a month

That leavs 223 a month for Property management (105 a month) maintnence, profit, vacancy and what not.

That makes is kind of tight. I will be living in the property for about 7 months which will give me some time to put away about 6 months of mortgage. (Whis is what I think I should maintain at all times for vacancy and repair purposes)

I can look at this two ways, 1. (the way most of you might look at it) I have a pretty decent chance of having to put some of my money in to this property to keep it afloat, not a lot but still an amount. Or 2. I don't have a cash flow but hey even if I put in 100 bucks a month in to the property Im getting a 140k house for 100 bucks a month that some one else is paying the rest for. In the long run I am still getting a pretty good deal on it.

A little background. I am in the military so I will not be able to buy all my houses in one location, so they will be spread out as I move around. Figure I wll live it the house for a few years then rent it out instead of selling it. The town I am currently looking to buy in is a VERY small town whos whole economy revolves around the base. (Currently a potential location for the next FAA UAV test site which could more than quadruple the population and bring billions to the local economy over the next 10 years but who knows if they will select this as their next location) And lastly I do not have long to sit on this since I will be moving out of the location in about 8-9 months and want to be out of my current rental by the end of my lease July 31st. As well as living in the house for a while before I rent it out to give me time to acumilate my 6 month buffer. The current location is probably one of the best chances I will get at buying my first house since it is a fairly cheap market compared to most other places I will get stationed (Such as San Diego where if I buy my first home there it will be 2-3x the cost and if it goes vacant there I will be in deep sh** while if this one goes vacant I can still keep my self afloat)

Sorry for the long post but its the only way I could paint the full picture so that I can get the most relevent advice on my current predicament. Thank you very much for all of your help and time.

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Miami, FL · Member since 2012 · 612 posts · 189 votes
13y

Wow! Long post. Okay lets see what we can do here. Honestly, the cash flow stinks. Using your numbers and a $140k offer price with 10% vacancy, 10% management fee, 10% repairs and 5% capital reserve; you are looking at a cash flow of MINUS $176 per month. OUCH. You have a cap rate of 4.4%. OUCH OUCH.

Honestly, this just is not a good rental property.

Secondly, VA loans are for owner occupied properties. When you move, you will need to refinance. This deal cannot be refinanced without money down and lots of it.

My advice, keep looking. Nothing is worse than rushing into a purchase decision only to regret it later as you go through foreclosure.

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  • Investor · Apple Valley, MN · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 94 votes
    12y

    My philosophy is that you make your money when you buy the property. So unless your embarressed by your offer it's too high. A general rule I use is 20-30% off the average comps in the area, minus the expenses to fix it up. That is how I arrive at my numbers. I currently have an offer out on a property that sold for 187k in 2007, it's a short sale where they listed it for 150k and then lowered it to 139k. I offered 105k and will need to spend 5-8k to fix it up for renting. I'm looking for good deals when I buy. You can never make that up with cutting back in other areas.

  • Rental Property Investor · Where we are parked · Member since 2013 · 584 posts · 178 votes
    12y

    Javier,

    You mentioned that if you take out the property management fees that you get closer to the $100 per month income. There are 2 things you need to consider.

    1. Your time is worth something. If you self manage without calculating a "fee" into the numbers, you're working for free.

    2. If you buy the house and plan to self manage but then something changes, you decide you don't like managing tenants, you get transferred, etc. now you have to pay a property manager and your "significantly closer to $100 per month" is now gone. ALWAYS factor in PM fees, even if you don't plan on using a PM.

    We live in California and have had a total of 3 properties in California. We are down to 1 and will most likely sell it eventually when our model tenants decide to move out. As others have mentioned it is extremely landlord unfriendly and it is very difficult to get even the 1% rule in many markets. We now have 3 out-of-state properties and are loving them. Property management comes at a cost but it's so nice not to have to worry about the tenant calling us on a weekend or if we're out of town, because of an issue.

    As many others have mentioned, we all understand your eagerness to get started. We were all there at one point. But don't mess with the numbers to make a deal work. As soon as you have to start tweaking the numbers to make a deal a "good" deal, it's a bad deal.

    My last piece of advice, and this is just my personal philosophy; don't ever buy a property for appreciation. Appreciation is completely speculative and you can find a lot of people who lost a lot of money a few years ago because they bought for appreciation. Buy for cash flow and if the property appreciates that's just icing on the cake. Any deal that doesn't start putting money in your pocket from day 1 is not a deal.

    Good luck and thank you for your service to this country!

  • Port Ludlow, WA · Member since 2013 · 29 posts · 7 votes
    12y

    Thank you all for your replies!!!

    Apparently I didn't update this thread even thou I thought I did... I ended up pulling the trigger on a property a few months ago. Probably not the best deal out there but I am happy with it. We shall see if I was bone headed or made a good move in the months to come. I am currently living in it but will rent it out as soon as I move out in Feb.

    My current issue I have is getting it ready. First the paint on the front of the house is blue... as it recycling bin blue, as in smurf blue... Neighbors hate it, fiance hates it. I don't care lol. If anything it is known as the blue house and I think it makes it stand out. Imprint in peoples memory. So that when potential renters are going thrugh 10 different houses they went to go see to move in to, mine stands out. I just hope it doesn't stand out negatively because of it. What do you all think? I am willing to paint it but the question then lies as to what color? I want something that will look good but add to it. Make it stand out positively. Make you go "wow nice house, the inside has to be nice" So potential renters walk in to the house already liking it. I fail at colors... So advice is appreciated.

    Second thing is that the woman says I will never rent the house with the stove and dishwasher in it, as they are 30 years old. All I can think of is yes they are ugly but they WORK!!! They have for 30 years (of which almost none of the newer appliances can last as long) and will probably last 30 more... Also more fancy things I put in it the more fancy (expensive) things I have to fix when they break... Again opinions and experiences are appreciated.

  • Bill B.Pro Member
    Camarillo, CA · Member since 2013 · 217 posts · 86 votes
    12y

    @Javier Molina I've not done another deal yet. Once burned twice shy, I guess. I'm investigating a few things and I'm attending several REI group meetings. The market is changing, too. Things are slowing down and the bidding wars have subsided here on the coast. I believe that the recovery is not all that the news would have you believe. While the unemployment rate was reported to have dropped today, all the reports I'm seeing are saying that the Christmas shopping season has disappointed retailers. One of those has to be wrong, in my opinion. I only have a small bit of money (especially for SoCal) so, I'm making very sure I don't screw up twice in a row.

    I'm glad to hear of your purchase and hope that it proves profitable for you. Merry Christmas to you and yours. May this season be filled with the Peace we believe was given to us so long ago.

  • Port Ludlow, WA · Member since 2013 · 29 posts · 7 votes
    12y

    Completely understandable. I think it's just called learning your lesson and not wanting to repeat your mistakes. Take your time and do it right. Keep me posted. I'd love to hear from you. Also if there is anything you need shoot me a message. I will be on the coast myself soon enough.

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