How I bought ten homes in 2.5 years

How I bought ten homes in 2.5 years

Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes

Hi everyone, I’m still relatively new to Bigger Pockets, and I had a recent colleague request ask that I post this to help others out. The question is, how did I go about purchasing ten houses in 2.5 years. I wish there were a magic formula I could give everyone, but as many of you know, it’s not easy once you hit that four house limit with Fannie and Freddie. Our first four houses (including personal residence) were a breeze. We were able to get great loans with great interest rates fixed for 30 years. But, as soon as we purchased number four, no one wanted to work with us anymore.

I had used the same real estate agent for a few of the first four deals. When I told her about our dilemma, she pointed me in the direction of a local community bank that her other investors were working with. By the way, real estate investing is all about relationships and networking. My real estate agent knew exactly what to do. Now, the pros and cons of community banks. First, the pros: They’ll lend money on just about any amount under 50,000, whereas the bigger banks won’t touch anything under 50,000. The community bank will also consider a large portion of the rents received as income immediately, without having the tenant in the house for a year or more. The community bank that I work with keeps telling me, “buy more, buy more.” They need to make loans, and I need more inventory. Those are the upsides.

The downside to working with community banks: They will also require a hefty down payment of 20% to 30%. Mine requires 20% (but remember, if you’re buying a 30,000 or 40,000 home, 20% isn’t too bad with those amounts). The terms are generally much shorter with a community bank as well. The bank I work with will only do 15 year loans, and the rate started at 6.25, but recently has dropped to 5.75. Most community banks will not escrow either. So, at the end of the year I’ve got to go around to several county tax offices making multiple payments.

For me it just came down to I needed and still need more inventory, especially in Atlanta where prices are at rock bottom. So, I’ve decided to keep working with my community bank, but I have a bit of an exit strategy. I’m in the process of refinancing a few of them with Guild Mortgage. They are a nationwide direct lender, and they’re not overly concerned with how many homes I have. Their more concerned with our credit score. By the way, they’re also doing cash out refi’s on a couple of my properties. I learned about them through another real estate podcast. ***education is paramount***

I know the 20% is hard to come by for many, but I did whatever I had to do, to keep buying houses. That included taking a loan against my wife’s 401k (which is really good because it doesn’t show up on your credit report) and I took advantage of multiple credit card lines. If I needed cash for the 20% down, I would simply tap a credit card line just before the closing date. The bank never asked to see proof of funds, so I wouldn’t pull the money until the closing was close, just to keep the credit report clear. Now, the big key here and this is super important, pay off that credit card ASAP. Don’t fall into the trap of being saddled with bad debt. I would always pay back the ten or twelve thousand dollars before pursuing another house.

The key is, find money wherever you can, and don’t stop investing. Don’t listen to bankers or mortgage brokers when they say, “You can’t do that.” I’ve been turned down by pretty much every major bank you can think of. I’ve sat in more bankers offices with my hand out, only to be turned away. But, don’t let that stop you. When it comes to money, there are multiple ways to make money happen. (Thank you Robert Kiyosaki) Whether it’s through a bank, hard money, or private money lenders, see what’s right for you.

One other tool that I employed was using multiple community banks. I’ve got a property that has a ton of equity in it. I was able to pull out 30,000 from that property in the form of an equity line. Never stop thinking of ways to raise money, use what you have, and knock on as many doors as you can. Don’t forget about those relatives also. That’s pretty much the long and short of it, I hope this helps others who may have run into a wall. When someone says “You can’t do that” I become more persistent. Good luck.

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Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y

Thomas Williamson,

This is actually referred to as ROBS: Roll-Over as Business Startup.

You open a solo 401k for your new C-corporation and you fund it with your rollover account. You have to be very careful not to drain the business's funds with salary as the IRS frowns upon.

If you can use those funds to make more money then that is wonderful.

-Steven

See this reply in the discussion

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  • David NilesBusiness Member
    Property Manager · DeLand FL · Member since 2012 · 860 posts · 243 votes
    13y

    Thanks for all the great tips Thomas, and welcome to the forums.

    I think I might give a couple of my locals a call as I was planning on moving out of my "big" bank soon anyhow.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Welcome to BiggerPockets, Thomas. Thanks for the excellent reminder that there are good money partners out there if you look for them. In your case, the community banks.

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Thanks David, I love the info that is passed along between everyone here. Good luck with yours.

  • Commercial Landlord · Oshkosh, WI · Member since 2013 · 299 posts · 88 votes
    13y

    Congrats to your growth and welcome to BP Thomas. Im curious on your 30k and 40k properties What are you getting for rents there in Atlanta? I do some deals in this part of the marketplace when I save up a little money Il buy homes like this.
    im working on 2 small projects now a 4 unit and a sfh. im doing this sfh where I paid 1200 cash to buy it at auction it will cost 8to 11k to get back up to code and It should pull 750 for rent its 2000 sqft 4 bedrooms garage fireplace basement. Should have an 80k arv when finished.
    Only down fall is you buy at these tax deed auctions you almost must have cash or a loc. They only give u 10 days to close and dont allow you to get in or inspect. I dont see many buyer there buying using debt.

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Wow great deal William on the sfh. The lowest rent I have on any of my properties is 750.00. My rents go from 750.00 to 875.00 depending upon where the property is located of course. But, Atlanta is a great market for investors, because of the amount of foreclosed homes out there. We had an enormous building boom over the last 12 years, so that means a lot of newer construction out there. My oldest property was built in 2001. My newest construction was a four bedroom three bath 2 car garage built in 2006 for 44,000. Hang in there, Atlanta definately has the inventory, but the word is out for sure. The rents compared to monthly payments are amazing right now.

  • Real Estate Investor · Central, TX · Member since 2012 · 479 posts · 165 votes
    13y

    Thomas Williamson, thanks again for posting this.

    So how much of your own hard-earned money have you invested so far?

    How much do you cash-flow from all your properties?

    I remember you said your wife was able to quit her job, so I'm assuming they are performing well.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Good for you Thomas Williamson . I am about to close on a 10-plex which will take me up to 28 units having been at this for 7 years. Although I am having to leave about 2.5% of my cash in this deal, the first 18 units were all 100% financed.

    People look at me sometimes as though I was born under a lucky star. My answer is – there are trillions of dollars of investment capital in this economy; there is money everywhere. If you can’t come up with a few, then either you don't know where to look or how to ask - it is time to get educated. Good for you Thomas.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    13y

    Great story Thomas. Congrats on a job well done!

    Looks like the key was finding a lender. I agree that while 20-30% down sounds like a lot it seems worth it versus paying all cash while interest rates are low.

    Do you find your lender would be willing to do a cash out refinance based on the appraised value if you did pay cash? I'm guessing there would still be seasoning requirements if they did.

    I keep reading more and more about the Atlanta market being great since there are a relatively large amount of foreclosures and the rents being high. Hopefully that will continue for you for a while.

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Thanks Ben, I love being around all the motivated people here at BP. Good for you as well!

    Ryan after all expenses are paid for the homes, my net is just over 3,200 per month. My wife turned in her notice just after Christmas, and her last day is next week. She's going to concentrate on our business and help take some of the load off of me. She'll take over the admin duties while I take care of maintenance and tenants. As far as my own money it was all mine in 9 of the deals, and my mother in law invested in the last one. I'm giving her half the rental profit. That's a win for me, we get the write offs, plus some income, and another assest. One other HUGE thing about my wife going full time, is now we can claim the real estate professional status for tax purposes next year. That means just about 100% of expenses are tax deductible. If you're not familiar with that status, go look it up and check out podcast on the subject. That's a huge prize in real estate investing, plus now we avoid the 3.8% healthcare tax as well that will hit ALL real estate investors, unless you or your spouse are full time.

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Joseph the community bank I deal with will do a cash out refi, the only problem with them again would be the interest rate at 15 years. It just about takes all of my profit if I were to do a cash out with them. But, as luck would have it, I did find another lender Guild Mortgage that uses reasonable rates with 30 years fixed for cash outs. I'm refinancing three properties with them now.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    13y

    Yeah I could see how that would make a big difference 15yr vs 30 for cash flow.

    Do you happen to know if Guild has seasoning/makes you wait a certain period of time before doing a cash out?

    Also interesting about the real estate professional status, and that's great your wife is going full time that's awesome. I am guessing you are able to do this full time as well?

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Haverford, PA · Member since 2012 · 8 posts · 9 votes
    13y

    Thomas,

    I wanted to comment on one point you made, and hopefully this is helpful to all. Tread carefully when taking 401k loans. First to clarify what you wrote, 401k loans are loans not AGAINST your 401k, but rather FROM your 401k. Also, there is some risk with taking a 401k loan. For example, if you take a 401k loan and you lose your job, that loan often gets converted to a withdrawl which now becomes subject to taxes AND early withdrawl penalties. Another thing to think about, when you pay your loan back (aka pay yourself back) through payroll deductions, the interest portion of the repayment is subject to double taxation - you are paying the interest back into the 401k with after tax dollars, and then when you begin making withdrawls that interest is subject again to taxation.

    Like anything way the risks/benefits, but know what you're really getting.

    Damon

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Damon you're correct about the 401k loan and taxes. However, the advantages of purchasing three cash flowing tax shelters with that small 30,000 loan far outweigh any possible tax penalties. Each person must decide if they're comfortable with taking that loan, and begin with the end in mind. I found myself in the position that many investors do, which is "I need money, and there's money just sitting in that 401K earning 3%." One of my deals I purchased with that money was a foreclosed property in a swim and tennis community for 54,900. That was 2 years ago. I currently owe 41,000 on that property and it's worth 100,000. I've tapped the equity in that property many times now to continue buying more property. Monthly payment is 350.00 with taxes and insurance, and it rents for 900.00 a month.

    On another note about the 401K, since my wife is retiring this month, we're working with Guidant Financial to convert that money into a real estate business. This way we keep the bulk of the money and can use it for real estate, whereas you can't do that with a traditional 401K. I'll keep everyone posted on how this goes, but we should have the entire process completed by mid February. I just couldn't bring myself to cash out the 401k and lose all that money in taxes and penalties.

  • Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2009 · 339 posts · 126 votes
    13y

    Thomas, thanks for sharing this very helpful. Being an Atlanta investor also I was wondering if you could share what local bank(s) you have been using since I have been looking for the same for a while. You can send me a PM if you would rather not post here.

    You caught my attention with this comment:

    Originally posted by Thomas Williamson:

    On another note about the 401K, since my wife is retiring this month, we're working with Guidant Financial to convert that money into a real estate business.

    What do you mean by converting to a real estate business?

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Hi Luis, I don't mind sharing at all. The main bank I work with is Liberty First Bank in Monroe. The second bank I'm currently working with is United Community Bank. They have branches all over Atlanta.

    As far as the 401K goes, I researched ways to get the money and put it to use for real estate without losing most of it to taxes and penalties. I first looked into self directed IRA's but, as you may be aware, you can't receive a current benefit from something the IRA purchases. The rents collected from property purchased with the self directed IRA have to go back to the IRA, so that's not an option. We need the rents each month to run the business, rather than the profit going back into an IRA.

    The next best solution is this: Guidant will set up a new corporation for you, have the existing 401K transferred to your new corporation, and then you can use the money to pay an employee a salary. This program is called I-Finance. This is a very basic explanation, but you get the jist of it. My wife will now be an employee of the corporation since she's working in the business full time, so she can draw a salary. This will entail payroll, payroll taxes, checks, etc. It's not a magic bullet to get the money without any strings attached, but it's the best workable solution out there I could find. The set up fee for this is 5,000 and monthly fees just over a 100.00 for Guidant to help manage and keep the IRS off of your back.

    But, 5,000 set up fees versus losing nearly 20,000 in taxes and penalties for early withdrawl is well worth it to me. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Thomas Williamson,

    This is actually referred to as ROBS: Roll-Over as Business Startup.

    You open a solo 401k for your new C-corporation and you fund it with your rollover account. You have to be very careful not to drain the business's funds with salary as the IRS frowns upon.

    If you can use those funds to make more money then that is wonderful.

    -Steven

  • Chandler, AZ · Member since 2013 · 113 posts · 25 votes
    13y

    Thanks Thomas for your success stories. Do you mind sharing which area(s) in Atlanta of your investment concentration?

    Originally posted by Thomas Williamson:
    Wow great deal William on the sfh. The lowest rent I have on any of my properties is 750.00. My rents go from 750.00 to 875.00 depending upon where the property is located of course. But, Atlanta is a great market for investors, because of the amount of foreclosed homes out there. We had an enormous building boom over the last 12 years, so that means a lot of newer construction out there. My oldest property was built in 2001. My newest construction was a four bedroom three bath 2 car garage built in 2006 for 44,000. Hang in there, Atlanta definately has the inventory, but the word is out for sure. The rents compared to monthly payments are amazing right now.
  • Commercial Landlord · Oshkosh, WI · Member since 2013 · 299 posts · 88 votes
    13y

    Very nice to get such new houses so cheap! Atlanta sounds like a fun place to be right now. Big metro area too lots to choose from

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    Yiv I currently invest in east Atlanta, in several counties about 30 miles east of downtown. If you're going to invest here, be very careful. Atlanta is like most cities, whereas all real estate is local. There are good areas and areas here you couldn't give me a home in. A rule of thumb for investors who are thinking of investing in Atlanta from elsewhere would be: Stay north of the city. Pretty much anything about 20 miles north of Atlanta in most directions is going to be pretty decent. Don't overlook Athens either. I live in the middle of Atlanta and Athens.

  • Chandler, AZ · Member since 2013 · 113 posts · 25 votes
    13y

    Thanks Thomas. No, I do not have plan to invest in Atlanta. I was just curious about the locations of $30k-$40k properties. Phx metro used to have $10k-$20k properties too, but I would be nervous just to drive by those areas. But looks like yours are all good.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Haverford, PA · Member since 2012 · 8 posts · 9 votes
    13y

    Thomas,
    I understand the need for money, and as an investor you go with the best options you have. My main first/main point is that you are borrowing money from yourself, and not someone else. It's a very important distinction which your original post did not state, and that many new investors may not have realized. Also, another point to make is that most 401k loans have a 5 year loan term so that jacks up the monthly payment versus if you had a loan term of say 25 years.

    On the deal you did two years ago for 54,900. How do you have the 401k loan payment accounted for in the cash flow?

    Damon

  • Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2009 · 339 posts · 126 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Yiv Luong:
    I was just curious about the locations of $30k-$40k properties. Phx metro used to have $10k-$20k properties too, but I would be nervous just to drive by those areas. But looks like yours are all good.

    I understand and agree with Thomas recommendations but don't take them as a blanket statement. There are $30-40k houses withing the city (what we call "inside the perimeter") that are fine to drive by at night...

    I am really glad to learn about the 401k rollover option. I am now wondering if there is a way to make that rollover that is not too expensive.??

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 928 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Thomas Williamson:
    plus now we avoid the 3.8% healthcare tax as well that will hit ALL real estate investors, unless you or your spouse are full time.

    Nice job on the houses, just wanted to clarify this item.

    My read on the 3.8% medicare surtax is that it only applies if your Adjusted Gross Income exceeds $250K for a married couple ($200K for a single), so it does not impact ALL real estate investors, just those with high income.

    The RE Professional status also permits you to deduct ALL tax losses against your other income, so it's not subject to the $25K loss limit that most RE investors face when deducting against their active income (and even that is subject to phaseout once other income exceeds $100K). On this one, I'd say that it's fairly unlikely that investors buying strong cashflowing property would have taxable losses, even factoring in the depreciation.

    So there can be value in being a RE Professional, but it's for the minority of very high earners, and those with low-yielding properties generating tax losses.

    I think all of the other tax benefits of being a RE investor are available to all
    landlords.

    I do think having a dedicated spouse might make a more compelling case to the IRS for certain deductions, such as the home-office deduction.

  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    13y

    Congrats!!! Thomas you are doing it in the ATL..I'm in Birmingham but always visiting. I need to make some trips to look at properties...Good inro..

  • Investor · atlanta , GA · Member since 2012 · 287 posts · 148 votes
    13y

    David in reference to the IRS and tax imposed on passive income, I'm simply repeating what I've read from Tom Wheelwright and what he has stated about Obama care as recently as the begining of this month. Tom Wheelwright is Robert Kiyosaki's accountant, and the author of Tax Free Wealth. According to him, all real estate investors / or any investor who collects passive income will be hit by the 3.8% tax, no matter what. Tom stated that the only way to avoid it is if you're are a real estate professional. I've listened to him discuss that very issue in depth, so you may want to check out his writings if you're not familiar with him. He is a tax wizard.

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