Salvaging bad flip (defaulted loan/taxes overdue)

Salvaging bad flip (defaulted loan/taxes overdue)

King Of Prussia, PA · Member since 2013 · 38 posts · 9 votes

Seeking ADVICE / Property is in Norristown, PA

I lent money to somebody (a land trust) for a fix and flip. Unfortunately, I did not do my homework beforehand, otherwise I would have realized there are 4 other investors prior to me that were already defaulted on for their loans. The Land Trust has just been served for back taxes.

All five investors are now in touch with one another and we are trying to salvage this deal to the best outcome for all. At this point, we only want our original money back–we are not even expecting profits, although that would be nice.

One of the original investors is trying to get the property deeded over to him so that he can finish the deal, however, we just learned that if this happens, it could wipe all of us other investors out completely. Since I am the last in line on this, I am told that I am the one who should be foreclosing. Also, if the taxes are sold, then we are all out of luck.

I am willing to buy the taxes to keep it in our control, but I don't know where to go from there. We have tried to get in touch with the land trust owner and of course, he is ignoring us. He even ignored several attorneys letters sent to him in the past. At this point, my guess is that he has used our money to live on and is running scared. 

All five of us investors have legitimate contracts with paperwork that tie us to the property, so in that sense, it is not a scam. But we can no longer rely on the land trust to make this right. The investors have to band together and because we are all newbies (obviously the land trust owner knew this)–we are not sure how to handle it. 

Any advice from people who have actual knowledge in this area and not just conjecture from reading books would be wonderful. 

Thank you! Karen.

0Reply
101 views

Most Popular Reply

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
10y

So, I was able to research some more details on this property.

First, the loans.  All five had a initial principal balance totaling to $84,000.  That includes all five loans.  I'll call the borrower by his first name of Calvin; land trusts are supposed to be used allegedly to "protect privacy" - but in this case the name is in the public records anyway ...

Second, property was purchased for $28,000 by Calvin. In that area, properties at that price usually need full rehab. Looks like before Calvin bought it. it was listed on MLS in the $70K range, but the listing had expired.

Third is ARV (after repair value). This property has a few things not favorable to high ARV. It is on a busy section of state road, and directly across the road is an industrial facility and warehouse. And it is close to freight train tracks (but not near the railroad crossing where they blow the train whistle and drop the barrier across the road). it is close to the river but luckily not in the flood plain according to FEMA maps. But it is only a rowhouse (townhouse if you want to be fancy), so values will be lower for those. My guess is ARV around $140K, but could be lower if appraisers use the negatives against the property. With luck it might fetch $150K, but I wouldn't expect that or anything higher than that. It is in a desired school district.

The repairs needed are not known to me, but I would expect $40K to $50K minimum, and upwards from there.  If we have a flat fee listing, so let's use $400 for listing side commission,  and 2.5% to buyer's agent, plus transfer taxes for seller will be 1%, the math looks like this:

$140K x 96.5% - 400, or $134,700 possible to seller.  The adjustments for seller's portion of taxes and the back taxes still need to come off of that, as well as repairs.  If rehab is $50K, that puts the number at $84,700.  As you can see, there won't be any profit expected; probably best strategy will be to attempt to minimize losses at this point.

The biggest problem is this: it is facing imminent judicial tax sale (like less than two weeks away).  At tax sale, I would expect the high bid to run anywhere from like $30K to $50K based on the house and location.  So letting it go at tax sale won't get anybody paid except maybe first position; second position might get a little, but not much at the low end of tat bid range.  Karen has to figure out what approach makes sense for her, and whether she can do this within her SDIRA because otherwise it might put the SDIRA in jeopardy of being declared distributed by the IRS.

See this reply in the discussion

59 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y

    Below is a property listing on the same block as the one in this thread; looks like my ARV estimate for the property in this topic was not too out of line:

    http://m.estately.com/listings/info/20-coates-stre...

    http://m.estately.com/listings/info/20-coates-street--1

  • King Of Prussia, PA · Member since 2013 · 38 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    wow- I can't believe it's selling for that much. Well, at least this investor knew what they were doing to turn the place around. I didn't figure these places would go for more than 80K. Guess Skip wasn't lying about at least ONE thing.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Karen Polis:

    wow- I can't believe it's selling for that much. Well, at least this investor knew what they were doing to turn the place around. I didn't figure these places would go for more than 80K. Guess Skip wasn't lying about at least ONE thing.

    Well, this one hasn't sold yet; in fact, it has gone through two price reductions, but now I think it is priced around where it might get somebody to bite. It would probably rent for around $1300 a month these days.

  • Investor · Litchfield County, CT · Member since 2017 · 54 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    @Karen Polis

    Karen - What ever happened with this? We're curious! 

    Also:  Why didn't you seek all the answers to your questions above from a knowledgeable attorney, rather than "strangers on the internet" ?

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y

    The house on the same block, as the one that is the subject of this thread, did have its sale close at $145K. You should be able to see that in my earlier link for the house.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    This is a very tricky situation.  How did this guy take advantage of all these investors?   When you make a loan, you should put a mortgage lien on the property.  The lien goes with the property, not the owner.  Further, the loan should be full recourse, so the borrower bears responsibility for any loss.   Further, you should have done a title search, to see other liens on the property.   If the other liens were unsecured, the first recorded lien would get preference.    Yours is most likely to get wiped out.    Tell me more about how you made this loan.

  • King Of Prussia, PA · Member since 2013 · 38 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    Simple case of extreme stupidity on my part. Lessons learned!

    I did have a mortgage note to go with this, which I wrongly assumed would matter. It only matters in first position and maybe 2 or 3, but not 5. I also thought I was dealing with somebody who's been known in this area for 35 years. As far as I still know, this is his first true swindle. 

    The investor in first position hired an attorney. He was the one with the most to gain, so it made sense for him. For me, it would have just been more money after bad.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y

    For those who followed this topic, the house that was the subject of this topic just came back on the market, and the listing says in need of full rehab, and the pictures show that too.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.