Need quick assessment of Short Sale deal

Need quick assessment of Short Sale deal

Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes

Hello,

I am newer to wholesaling and haven't completed any deals yet. I accidentally have come across a deal that *may* be worth pursuing, however I need your advice.

Property is listed at 159k, however the realtor has confirmed there haven't been any offers yet, so there is no knowledge whether the bank will accept. Coincidentally, it was 169k yesterday. It was intially listed at 219k in september. This is a good area with quality schools.

The realtor (mine, not the selling realtor) stated that two identical models sold in last 90 days for 245k and 259k respectively. She also noted that there is another identical on the market currently for 240k.

Negatives:
a) Backs to a train. I am finding out if the other models that sold do.
b) No basement. I am confirming that other models that sold did not have either. I would assume that since the other models are identical, that they didn't.
c) The house is a really ugly red brick, which of course can be painted nicely.
d) There is a pipe burst in the house, however it is running out of the garage. There is no "noticable" mold, however there is some drywall damage.

I am confirming which bank holds the mortgage to verify seasoning rules. I am also confirming the DOM for the two that sold and the third that is available.

I have been spending all of my time researching wholesaling for FSBO's. I am familar with SS's, however just the basics. I intend on selling retail, however at a deep discount to move it quickly. If value is 240k, I'm thinking selling at 200k. In that event, after HML and other expenses, I'm still making 20k if I use an agent or 30k if can move myself.

Questions:
I would have to use a straight PSA. What are my options if I need to back out after offer is made?

How long of an inspection period should I request?

How much of EMD should I expect or request to put down and when do I tell them I will? After buyer accepts offer?

Any other tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. I am a bit nervous because I wasn't anticipating this. Since the homeowners have dropped the priced twice this week alone, I assume they need to move it and I want to hurry to lock the deal up before another investor does.

Thank you!
Danielle Cage

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Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
16y

Danielle,

What a great decision you have made. THe other thing to take away, you now know in further detail how to evaluate a deal. Great job!

The best way to learn on this site, is to pose questions and get involved.

See this reply in the discussion

18 Replies

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  • Rehabber · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 802 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Danielle C.:


    Questions:
    I would have to use a straight PSA. What are my options if I need to back out after offer is made?

    Most Association of Realtors have a short sale addendum that is pretty much easy to walk-away from. Aside from that, you will also have a low offer which the lender will need to accept and inspection period to fall back on. It is difficult to bind a buyer on a distressed property.

    Originally posted by Danielle C.:
    How long of an inspection period should I request?
    As much as they will allow. Typically, at least 10 days upon approval of the short payoff from the lender.

    Originally posted by Danielle C.:
    How much of EMD should I expect or request to put down and when do I tell them I will? After buyer accepts offer?

    I would tell them the EMD will be depostied once the lender has agreed to a short sale. I would not offer more than $100.00. If the agent seems unhappy with this, then add the fact that the short sales are very uncertain things and would not want tie up your capital. Besides, short sales are practically unbinding and you received get your offer accepted the discount would be reason enough to close the deal.

    Good Luck!

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    Thanks for the advice Scott. I feel better already. Based on the comps that I received, do you think I should lower the offer or go with what the sellers have listed? I don't want to turn off the sellers or bank, however I think that because I can close with cash (hml) should help.

    Also, if the selling agent is not intending on doing the negotiation, I would be interested in having an experience negotiator work this. Do they usually request full payment upfront or do they defer their fees until you close, if you close?

    Thanks again!

    Danielle

  • Real Estate Investor · SD · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 1 vote
    16y

    A good, trustworthy negotiator wont charge you anything up front. At least I don't. I think some of the bigger operations do though. They make their money when you close.

    Were the comps in a distressed situation or just comparable in size, style, location, etc.?

    If they weren't distressed comps then you need to adjust the value of the property accordingly. In my area a house like this with good comps in 240 I would give this house a value of 190k. I would then start my offer at 70% of that value. So, I would offer 133k. I would expect to end up paying closer to 80-85% of the distressed value.

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    Hey Ryan,

    No, the comps were not distressed homes. These were regular retail sales, move in ready.

    Thanks for the suggestion on price. I am trying to get in to see the property and meet the owners today.

    If they haven't agreed to an agent doing their negotiations, then I think I will use an experience negotiator.

    I appreciate everyone's replies. I'll just have to see what happens with an offer, if I do offer.

    Danielle Cage

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    Ok, I was able to view the comps of the homes that sold in the area and I think I may have a problem. All three of the comps back to a park, two blocks over. This is the only house that backs to a train. And there are three tracks, pretty wide. I'm assuming there is significant traffic.

    Does anyone know what amount I would take off of offer price because a house backs to a train? There are no other comps on this block within the last three years. Yikes. So my best bet is to go off of the most recent comps, since the home models are the same, however reduce value for location. I am thinking at least 30k. Really, who wants to live by a train if they don't have to?

    ....Just thinking like a buyer :)

    Thanks!!
    Danielle

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    16y

    I will be more than happy to give out some advice. But I have a few questions.
    1) Do you have any Buyers that might desire this property?
    2) Are you able to get complete control of the negotiations with the Lender(s)?
    3) Are you prepared to close the property IF your offer is accepted? And How?
    4) What other exits do you have in mind if you can't get rid of it quickly?

    Let me know the answers, and I will help as much as possible.

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    16y

    Properties which back to active train tracks really decrease the value because of the decrease in demand for the home. Mopst buyers will not want to live in a home where the house backs to train tracks. As to the amount of decrease in value, that all depends on that area and market conditions.

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    Hello James,

    I appreciate the offer of help! I've read many of your posts in my research (mainly for straight wholesales and not SS's).

    1) Do you have any Buyers that might desire this property?

    No. I am newer to this and have only now just begun building my buyers list. My intention with this property was to sell straight to retail through local advertising and an agent if necessary. This was before I found out the comps provided were in a two block radius, however had a much better location, i.e. no train tracks behind those homes.

    2) Are you able to get complete control of the negotiations with the Lender(s)?

    I was planning on going to see the home tomorrow and meet the sellers. I am hoping they have not requested their agent to do the negotiations or if they have, the agent is willing to give this up. I do know that they have not yet made an offer to the bank, however I do not know where they are in the process of the SS. (Have they gotten a packet yet, tried a loan mod, or even spoken to the bank at all?) Also, I am uncertain how familiar with SS they are, specifically the fact that Illinois IS a state that allows deficiency judgments.

    3) Are you prepared to close the property IF your offer is accepted? And How?

    I will use an HML for an A to B B to C transaction. I had previously spent some time pre-qualifying companies who do this and have selected two for this particular situation.

    4) What other exits do you have in mind if you can't get rid of it quickly?

    To be honest, I don't. The only one I have in mind is selling to an end buyer. I don’t believe there is enough equity to sell to another wholesaler to make it worth their time. I also don’t see this as a rent. If the bank were to allow it to go low enough, it’s possible.

    I am not in a position to hold at all. This is why I need to pre-qualify this deal so well. I understand that there is always a huge uncertainty when doing any deal and there is a fair amount of excitement about a potential first deal. With that, I am only concerned if I can make the numbers work. If I can’t, if it doesn’t make sense, then I can easily walk away. So, right now if the deal doesn't sell? I am in trouble.

    My main exit strategy until I build better capital is to work FSBO's and assign the contracts. So this is where I built my main base of knowledge. This SS opportunity kind of just popped up. Eventually, I have to say, I would love to work SS’s.

    Thanks again for your time and offered assistance!

    Danielle Cage

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    Hey Will,

    That's what I am thinking. I am a bit disappointed that the agent didn't advise me of this initially. It was only after I requested to actually see the comps and pulled up their locations that I noticed the location disparity.

    Because the values have fallen so low, a home buyer in this area has a decent but not excellent selection to choose from. This area in particular does tend to still be desirable, however, to me, I think that the tracks drain enough equity out to make this deal questionable.

    That is, unless the bank is willing to drop low enough. There are those who have done enough deals to where they can sell an ice cube to an eskimo, however I'm not at that point - yet :)

    By the way, this site has been absolutely fantastic. I have spend about 5 hours a day just reading old posts and researching things. It's like every new thread that I read gives me an "aha" moment. So thanks everyone for your replies and suggestions.

    Thanks,
    Danielle Cage

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    16y

    Some random items regarding railroad tracks.

    Determine what sort of trains run there: commuter rail vs. freight. Or both.

    Determine when heavy traffic happens: freight runs late in the night and can be loud enough to wake everybody.

    Is there a crossing of a road, where the train will blow a very loud whistle to announce it is coming?

    Is there some type of barrier between the edge of the house's lot and the tracks to prevent kids from going there to play?

    Do wild animals end up getting on the tracks and carcasses left on the side to rot?

  • Real Estate Consultant · Lakewood, CO · Member since 2009 · 69 posts · 23 votes
    16y

    Here is my thoughts on this........

    remember I don't do anything normal at all. So these are just my thoughts on it!

    FACTS
    We know who all the lenders are.
    House has been on market awhile.
    Price keeps droping.
    Short Sale is not approved.
    Foreclosure is getting closer by the day.

    Now what would I do with that info?

    Buy the Note from the Lender.

    Personally I would not care who was going to Negotiate WHAT bottom line is I would use the Hard Money and Buy the note. Avoid the 90 day seasoning issue.

    Questions I have.

    Why would we sell this way below market?

    Flip the property or Double close the property just buying the note. Really simple just sounds hard!

    Better discounts when you buy the note and not mess with the Short Sale.

    This is coming from someone that has been Negotiating Short Sales for years. I have done thousands of them. I started doing it this way 2-3 years ago.

    BETTER DISCOUNTS
    Bigger CHECKS!

  • Rehabber · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 802 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Danielle C.:
    Thanks for the advice Scott. I feel better already. Based on the comps that I received, do you think I should lower the offer or go with what the sellers have listed? I don't want to turn off the sellers or bank, however I think that because I can close with cash (hml) should help.


    It is really hard for me to answer that mainly due to not enough relative information. But, I would offer no more than 50% of the lowest distressed sale near the tracks.

    Originally posted by Danielle C.:
    Also, if the selling agent is not intending on doing the negotiation, I would be interested in having an experience negotiator work this. Do they usually request full payment upfront or do they defer their fees until you close, if you close?


    I do not have any upfront fees and most do not. But, for an investor who has not yet completed a short sale, I ask for a deposit which is credited towards the fee on the first close.

    Also, sounds like you have only one exit strategy. You need to give some thought into more than one. Look into a retail flip scenario as exit strategy A and wholesaling as strategy B. This way your buyer pool is larger and raises your chances for success.


    Thanks again!

    Danielle

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    16y

    Not to discouarge you, but for me, I wuld simply pass on this deal due to the train track issue. Why fight so hard to make it work when there are tons of deals to be had out there!
    That is my take on this scenario, just food for thought. :)

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    I tend to agree with Will on this. I think that there are far too many if's on this deal, all stemming from a possible bad location. Because it's my first deal, I need to take out as many variables as possible and finding the right buyer for this location could blow up in my face.

    Thank you everyone who gave advice on this situation. Being newer, it's always extremely helpful to have a more experienced "steady hand" giving solid suggestions.

    Danielle

  • Real Estate Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2008 · 742 posts · 463 votes
    16y

    Danielle,

    What a great decision you have made. THe other thing to take away, you now know in further detail how to evaluate a deal. Great job!

    The best way to learn on this site, is to pose questions and get involved.

  • Real Estate Investor · Naperville (Chicago), IL · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 11 votes
    16y

    Thanks James :) The questions you posed yesterday and suggestions from others got me out of nervous mode and into assessing the reality of the deal. All very much appreciated!

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    16y

    Hi, RR Tracks are an incurable external obsolesence in appraising a property. However, in my area there (actually more) areas with very nice expensive homes that back up to the tracks. Location is more valued than the effect of RR tracks. If there were identical homes that sold which suffered the same problem and for more money, I'd have to say that in that market, the tracks may not have that great of an impact. Some tracks will have more traffic on them as others, just like a street. Check and see how busy the tracks are, a train twice a week for five minutes is no big deal.
    But.....you're going to paint a red brick home? Can you clean it first? LOL Bill

  • Centennial, CO · Member since 2009 · 758 posts · 251 votes
    16y

    Danielle,
    Good question and discussion on this thread, and sounds like the right decision. For later short sale deals keep in mind that you typically have some time to line up a buyer while the short is being negotiated. If you find a buyer that can purchase from you simultaneously with your purchase from the bank then Transactional Funding will save you at least 2 pts. plus accrued interest. Good job on using this site as a resource.

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