Buying a HUD Home in Pittsburgh, PA - Allegheny County

Buying a HUD Home in Pittsburgh, PA - Allegheny County

Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 2 votes

This is primarily a question about how the HUD laws work in Pittsburgh PA, specifically Allegheny County (not sure if the rules are different by location or if they are the same across the state or country...).

Anyway, I found a HUD home that I would love to purchase in the same borough as current primary residence. From the looks of it, it's a B- property (assuming no major issues with the foundation, or otherwise) in an A neighborhood for the the cost of a D or less. The house certainly is going to need some repairs to make inhabitable from what I can see.

Hypothetically, let's say I wanted to do the work on the house myself and let's say this house takes me over a year to repair to a state that I feel is livable. Would I be able to put an offer in on the HUD house, and if accepted, be able to switch my current house to my secondary residence and the HUD house to my primary residence, but continue to live mostly in my current residence until all the repairs and renovations are complete on the HUD house?

If that is a possibility, then hypothetically, let's say after a year of work and the HUD house is finished, what if I decide I then don't want to live there anymore and I decide to either rent it out or sell it instead? Would I be able to switch my current house back (or another house if I don't decide not to stay in either place) to my primary residence after a year and switch the HUD house to an investment property as a rental or just sell it?

According to applicable laws, would this situation be legal?  Would I be breaking any rules here?

If nobody else is inhabiting the place during the first year except me doing the repairs, is it in alignment with the rules if I complete whatever paperwork is necessary to make the HUD house my primary residence on paper (although I won't be officially living there because the repairs aren't done)?

Last question - If this is all technically legal and possible, what other complication could I run into if I were to decide to move forward with such a plan?  

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Jeremy TaggartBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 850 posts · 647 votes
9y

@TJ Angelo I'm assuming you are buying in the owner occupant period and need to be an owner occupant to bid on it since you are asking about it but you could just switch your mailing address to that property and live in your current place since it's close you would still be able to get the mail. I think the main thing they look at is the mailing address on tax returns and bills and such and of course you couldn't rent it out or sell it before the year is up. Even if that technically wouldn't be allowed I highly doubt you would get into trouble if it's empty while you are repairing it and it is your mailing address. After the year is up you can do whatever you want with it. As far as I know HUD operates the same in every state but I could be wrong. Could possibly get away with AirBnB if you finish repairs before the year is up and wanted to rent it out but then you are just risking them calling the loan due if the lender were to find out because they prohibit you using the home as a "hotel" in the loan details. Once again, slim chances of that actually happening but it's still a possibility. I think they just don't want people buying and either selling or renting with no intentions of making it their primary residence from the getgo.

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  • Jeremy TaggartBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 850 posts · 647 votes
    9y

    @TJ Angelo I'm assuming you are buying in the owner occupant period and need to be an owner occupant to bid on it since you are asking about it but you could just switch your mailing address to that property and live in your current place since it's close you would still be able to get the mail. I think the main thing they look at is the mailing address on tax returns and bills and such and of course you couldn't rent it out or sell it before the year is up. Even if that technically wouldn't be allowed I highly doubt you would get into trouble if it's empty while you are repairing it and it is your mailing address. After the year is up you can do whatever you want with it. As far as I know HUD operates the same in every state but I could be wrong. Could possibly get away with AirBnB if you finish repairs before the year is up and wanted to rent it out but then you are just risking them calling the loan due if the lender were to find out because they prohibit you using the home as a "hotel" in the loan details. Once again, slim chances of that actually happening but it's still a possibility. I think they just don't want people buying and either selling or renting with no intentions of making it their primary residence from the getgo.

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  • Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    I found an interesting discussion on related topics here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/20/topics/208...

    Based on the fact that I am still working on the house I live in now and I am working on repairs to a duplex I bought as a rental in the city, it could certainly take me a year or more to complete all the repairs / renovations required on this HUD property since I plan to do everything myself and I'm not a seasoned construction veteran.

    One thing to mention is I am planning to purchase using cash - no mortgage or financing, not sure if that has an impact on the conversation or not.

    Our first child was born about 2 months ago, so I'm not really sure what the future holds. We may end up deciding to leave the borough all together. Meaning I would sell the house I'm living in now as well as the HUD home. If I waited a full year after the purchase of the HUD home, I assume there would be no issues there. Or we might move and rent both out. Either way, it wouldn't happen within a year, so I assume I'm not breaking any of the clear HUD rules on this one.

    My question is - if I end up taking my good old time and repair / remodel this place over the course of a year or more and I'm over there regularly to cut the grass, get the mail, work on it, etc.  could I get in trouble if I'm not actually sleeping there because there is no bedroom, kitchen, etc?

    Seems like the rules here are pretty muddy. Sounds like it I switch my mailing address and license, it would be OK, but then again, it could be a big headache if someone from HUD (or whatever the enforcement agency is) were to question it and threatens a 250K fine or 5 years in jail... (no thanks)

  • Jeremy TaggartBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 850 posts · 647 votes
    9y

    @TJ Angelo if you're using cash I'd say you would be fine. I highly doubt someone will actually go into the property to see the livability of it if your address is changed and everything. Idk if the whole move in within 60 days concept is something lenders want or HUD itself. I would assume its a OO mortgage thing rather than HUD.

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  • Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    So I decided to play it safe and wait until the OO period is over. My question is how do I ensure that I get like THE FIRST offer in if this property goes past the OO limited period. @Gary Swank - curious your thoughts if you have experience with purchasing HUDs here in Pgh / Allegheny County.  Seems there is a lot of grey and the rules aren't exactly laid out to easily be consumed.  I walked the place last night and liked what I saw, but I would probably want to get a full inspection, as I'm not extremely seasoned at this point.  A few follow-up questions:

    Is there a minimum about of earnest money required for a HUD offer?

    If I get an inspection now and then the property gets snatched up during the OO period, I'm assuming I'm just out the money and there is no way to recoup the costs, right?

    Would you recommend lining up an inspection for the day that the house would come back on the market after the OO period so that if it doesn't get snatched up, I can get the inspection and submit an offer on the same day?

    I'm just trying to learn as much as possible about the HUD process - seems rather complex...

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @TJ Angelo

    Good decision to not push the envelope on an OO Bid. The HUD process is basically the same in all areas with slight differences based on who the Asset Manager is

    Have you located an agent that has done several HUD and is thoroughly versed with the process? You have to use an agent to place a bid

    Once the owner occupant period ends you will be able to place a bid that day for the next days bid opening. You will need to net HUD a minimum of 88% of the current asking price at this point or your offer will not be accepted. The 88% includes all real estate commissions

    You cannot do an inspection prior to having an accepted bid other than a visual as you cannot turn on utilities.  Once the offer is accepted, if no known issues with the water or electric exist you will be allowed to do an inspection but you incur all the costs

    The Earnest Money is $500 for properties under 50k and $1000 for properties above 50k. As an investor, you will not receive your earnest money back if you fail to close

  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 822 posts · 255 votes
    9y

    @TJ Angelo Thanks for requesting advice. We can talk further....Gary

  • Investor · Maui Hawaii · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Hey Greg,  you seem really familiar!  Is it 6 months or 12 months and is it actually occupy or just hold (not sell)?   Quite a coincidence that I'm interested in this on the same day as you posting...

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    @James Hall

    Lol  What is up Brotherman?  You need to occupy for 12 months .  There are some mitigating factors such as a job transfer or something along those lines 

    I will give you a call after we get back from Costa Rica

  • Investor · Louisville, CO · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Endorsement for Gary Swank who has been helping my investing group find multifamily in Pittsburgh (buy and hold). He offers honest and sound advise, glad I bumped into him here.

    Cheers and Goodluck!

    Bill Bauer MD, Valar Enterprises LLC

  • Investor · Maui Hawaii · Member since 2014 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Pura Vida!  

  • Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Greg H. - Thanks for the info on the earnest money, the tip on the 88% rule and advice on the inspection. Very helpful stuff. I have a friend who is a relatively new agent, but he's never been through the HUD process for an investor.

    @Gary Swank - Thanks for the reply.  I'll try to get in touch around lunch tomorrow. 

  • Greg H.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @TJ Angelo:

    @Greg H. - Thanks for the info on the earnest money, the tip on the 88% rule and advice on the inspection. Very helpful stuff. I have a friend who is a relatively new agent, but he's never been through the HUD process for an investor.

    @Gary Swank - Thanks for the reply.  I'll try to get in touch around lunch tomorrow. 

    As someone who has purchased hundreds and hundreds of HUD homes, I cannot stress enough to get an experienced hud agent. The process is much different than a regular sale. Your friend must have an NAID # and if they do not know what that is....well it will take them 2 months to get one

    If you want to remain friends.......find another agent

  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 822 posts · 255 votes
    9y

    @TJ Angelo Sounds good. @William Bauer Thank you Dr. Bauer for your kind words. Totally enjoying working for you.

  • Real Estate Agent · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 12 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    I'm currently going through the FHA 203k process, which I believe this is the same process. I'm finding it hard to find a good contractor with experience with the FHA's.
  • Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    TJ, with what you are planning with the one year rule and HUD, its not ant just changing your mailing address... Legally everything goes to intent. From what I have read your intent with the house is not to live in it. it won't work, not legally anyway.

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